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In defense of the JREF Paranormal Challenge : JREF / Randi Challenge - Page 2 • SCEPCOP Forum








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In defense of the JREF Paranormal Challenge

Discussions about the James Randi Educational Foundation and its Million Dollar Challenge.

Re: In defense of the JREF Paranormal Challenge

Postby Arouet » 03 Nov 2011, 19:38

Yes the MDC is a publicity stunt - and Randi himself has said it.

No its not anything like a cult.
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Re: In defense of the JREF Paranormal Challenge

Postby Nostradamus » 03 Nov 2011, 20:12

Scimitars were not available - beware January 19, 2038 is upon us.
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Re: In defense of the JREF Paranormal Challenge

Postby Arouet » 03 Nov 2011, 23:45

The suggestion that the JREF is cult-like is ludicrous. Even a cursory read of the wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult) makes apparent the vast differences between an actual cult and a public interest group like JREF.

Frankly, its a cheap shot and reduces credibility to lauch such attacks.
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Re: In defense of the JREF Paranormal Challenge

Postby ProfWag » 04 Nov 2011, 00:34

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Re: In defense of the JREF Paranormal Challenge

Postby NinjaPuppy » 04 Nov 2011, 01:28

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Re: In defense of the JREF Paranormal Challenge

Postby craig weiler » 04 Nov 2011, 03:44

Quite a few people have taken the preliminary challenge. A lady named Patricia Putt was the latest.

JREF may not be a cult, but it certainly has members who behave like cultists.

From my reading of the parapsychological scientific literature, Randi is ignored. His challenge is not science, nor does it claim to be. It's not proof of any sort that psychics exist and contributes nothing to scientific understand of psychic ability. It is not regarded as fair by anyone on the believer side of the issue who has taken the time to examine it.
A ship in harbor is safe, but that's not what ships are for.
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Re: In defense of the JREF Paranormal Challenge

Postby Nostradamus » 04 Nov 2011, 04:01

Of course the MDC is not science, but it allows anyone to provide evidence that any of this paranormal is real.

The believers call the test unfair because they fear it. They fear being revealed as failures.

To ignore Randi is just reinforcing the notion that the believers are close minded. They close their mind to the possibility that this is all bunkum.
Scimitars were not available - beware January 19, 2038 is upon us.
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Re: In defense of the JREF Paranormal Challenge

Postby craig weiler » 04 Nov 2011, 07:20

A ship in harbor is safe, but that's not what ships are for.
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Re: In defense of the JREF Paranormal Challenge

Postby Arouet » 04 Nov 2011, 11:40

started listening to his video put very annoyingly done with the ninja shouts in between each rule. He seems to be just trying some satire of the MDC. Doesn't look like a real offer.

If anyone listened to the whole thing let me know if anything serious in there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE_UzmtUH7g
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Re: In defense of the JREF Paranormal Challenge

Postby ProfWag » 04 Nov 2011, 20:52

As stated before, there are at least a dozen "challenges" out there apart from Randi's. If one doesn't like his rules, they could very easily look elsewhere if they believe in themselves and their abilities to prove to themselves and to us if their ability is legitimate.
The only way to prove beyond a doubt that the MDC is legit is for someone to pass the test and then fail to get paid. He makes his account available to the public and he has a legal obligation to pay if won.
From a personal standpoint, if I was giving the money away, I wouldn't give an inch on a test that could possibly have either trickery or coincidence as a possible outcome. That's all he does.
And, oh by the way, Mr. Benneth is a member of this forum that's posted a few times...
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Re: In defense of the JREF Paranormal Challenge

Postby Arouet » 04 Nov 2011, 21:32

Have you ever read one of the JREF threads where they discuss proposed protocols? Have to admit, some of these people have trouble staying focussed and coming up with simple and clear protocols.
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Re: In defense of the JREF Paranormal Challenge

Postby Nostradamus » 05 Nov 2011, 03:40

Scimitars were not available - beware January 19, 2038 is upon us.
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Re: In defense of the JREF Paranormal Challenge

Postby Arouet » 05 Nov 2011, 04:00

I don't think this necessarily holds. Some really don't like Randi want anything to do with him. Whether or not people actually have psi abilities I don't think there's a question that many honestly believe that they do.
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Re: In defense of the JREF Paranormal Challenge

Postby craig weiler » 05 Nov 2011, 09:50

Nostradamus,
I personally would not accept any challenge that was completely controlled by someone I didn't trust. I don't think that anyone else would either.

Zammit has a million dollar challenge of his own for skeptics. I've never heard of a skeptic who thought that one was fair. Just turn the logic around.
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Re: In defense of the JREF Paranormal Challenge

Postby Arouet » 05 Nov 2011, 09:57

If you want to compare Zammitt's to the MDC I'm game. In fact, I've already done an analysis somewhere on this forum. They are nowhere near the same.

I'm not saying you should do the MDC if you don't trust Randi - but they are not the same thing.

Also, the goal of the MDC is to develop a test where judgment is not necessary - the results will be clear, with no equivocation. The complaints against the MDC have come at the negotiating stage - not at the actual testing stage. (compare that to Zammit's version - I wonder if you've actually read his rules?)
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