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Debunking Christian Circular Arguments and Assumptions
An Unbeatable
Challenge to Christians
Here is an
unbeatable challenge
that you can give to Christians that puts them in a no-win situation
and reveals
the folly of their fundamentalist beliefs. See these forum posts that I
wrote
to them long ago that issues this challenge.
1. First
post:
Christians, DO YOU
AGREE WITH
GOD?!
Christians, I'd
like to ask
you an interesting question. I'd like to know whether you
personally
AGREE or DISAGREE with your God on the following commands:
Do you AGREE with
your God
that the innocent babies and infants living in the cities that God
wants to
punish should be dashed against rocks and walls and floors so that
they die
instantly?
"Happy shall he be who takes
your little ones and dashes
them against
the rock!" (Psalms 137:9)
"The people of
against their God. They will
fall by the sword; their little ones
will be
dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped
open." (Hosea 13:16)
"Every one that is found shall
be thrust through; and every one
that is
joined unto them shall fall by
the sword.
Their children also shall be
dashed to pieces
before their eyes; their
houses shall be spoiled, and
their wives ravished." (Isaiah
13:15,16)
"Their bows also shall dash
the young men to pieces; and
they
shall have no pity on the
fruit of the womb; their eye shall not
spare
children."
(Isaiah 13:18)
Christians, do you
AGREE with
your God that the innocent pregnant women living in the city that God
punishes
should have their stomachs ripped open savagely so that both the woman
and
fetus die a horrific bloody death?
"The people of
rebelled against their God.
They will fall by the sword; their
little ones will
be dashed to the ground, their
pregnant women ripped open."
(Hosea 13:16)
"At that time Menahem, starting out
from Tirzah, attacked Tiphsah
and
everyone in the city and its
vicinity, because they refused to open
their gates. He sacked Tiphsah and ripped
open all the pregnant women."
(2 Kings 15:16)
Just tell me
whether you
AGREE or DISAGREE with your God on these commands. Please don't
sidestep
the question! I know you can't answer this cause either answer
will make
you look bad.
Now I'm going to be
civilized
here and offer you a way out of this no-win situation here. And
that way
is if you are ready to concede that God never commanded or wrote any of
this,
and therefore these were written by men who had savage and barbaric
beliefs and
ways that were their own creation due to their primitive animal like
nature.
Now think about
it. Do
you really think that an all loving, merciful, wise God would give such
orders? Can't you just admit that these words are merely the
works of a
savage tribe of Israelites who were warlike and barbaric? It
should be s
obvious to you by now!
2. Second
post:
Christians,
Visualize
THIS! Could you do it?
Christians, in my
previous
post entitled "DO YOU AGREE WITH GOD?!" I asked whether you AGREED or
DISAGREED with your God that INNOCENT babies and infants should be
smashed against
rocks and walls and pregnant women should have their stomachs ripped
open so
that they and their infant die together, as he commanded in the
Bible. In
response, a lot of you responded by saying that you do agree with your
God or
you implied that you agree by saying that "God is always right and
just". Alright, now here's what I want you to do now. Close
your eyes and try to visualize the following:
Suppose you lived
in the Old
Testament era, and God commanded you to capture a city and then
afterward he
commands you to take the babies and dash them against the walls or
rocks.
Now try to visualize yourself going into one of the captured cities'
homes and
doing one of the following: 1) From a warm crib, you pick up a
LIVING
BREATHING flesh and blood baby who is smiling :):):) at you, and then
taking it
and with all your strength throwing it against the wall as hard as you
can!!!!!! Or, 2) imagine taking the warm LIVING BREATHING flesh
and blood
smiling :):):) baby and carrying it outside to the edge of a cliff with
rocks
below, and then purposely DROPPING the warm blooded baby right off of
it!!!!!!
O
---|---
/\ Could You
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v
o=< a helpless baby/infant
To
its death?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
@@@@@@@@@
Jagged rocks
@@@@@@@@@
CAN YOU really do
that??? COULD YOU HONESTLY bring yourself to throw a living
breathing
baby off the cliff???
Now, I know that a
lot of you
can't (hopefully) so why don't you give yourselves a break and just
admit that
God would never have commanded these things, and therefore these Old
Testament
stories never happened, and these books in the Bible are not the word
of a
loving God, but of fallible men? Please give yourselves a break
and
remove your guilt, uneasiness and doubt, and just admit the plain
truth.
Stop forcing your mind to believe things that your heart knows not to
be
true. It's not really that hard if you try. I've done it
before,
and so can you.
3. Third
post:
The Ultimate
Challenge to All
Christians
I'd like to issue a
challenge
to all Christian Fundamentalists. This will be very interesting
indeed,
cause it will be the ultimate test of how much guts you really
have.
After this, you'll never look at these debates the same way
again. Here
it goes.
If you'll remember
from
Genesis 22, God tested Abraham's faith by commanding him to take his
baby son
Isaac and bring him up to the top of the mountain to sacrifice him to
the Lord.
Abraham agreed and was about to do it when the Lord stopped him just in
time
and said that he had passed the test and proven himself to be
faithful.
Now, here's the question and challenge to all you
fundamentalists. IF you
lived in the time of Abraham, and God had asked you to take your
newborn child
up to the mountain, and slay him with a knife or something, would you
have done
that? Would you slay your own baby child by slugging a knife into
him???!!! Would you? Answer YES or NO! Do not deviate
or
change the subject, just answer YES or NO, that's all I want to hear.
Now, I bet that a
lot of you
will not even be willing to answer this. Here's why. If you
calculate it, this is a lose-lose situation here. First of all,
it's
inconceivable that anyone would even think about doing such a
thing. So
if you answer YES that you would slay your own child in cold blood,
then you
would appear to be the most indecent person in human society.
What kind
of a person would want to make himself appear that way? However,
if you
answer NO to this question, then you would be admitting that you don't
always
agree with God and that he is not being just or right in asking you to
do
this. Therefore, you would be denying your own belief of the
absolute
righteousness, wisdom and justice of the God of your Bible.
Otherwise,
you would have to say that this story is not an actual account, but a
myth that
the Jews created, and then you would be denying your belief that the
Bible is
the complete word of God. So either way, you lose.
So, again I issue
the
challenge, answer YES or NO! If I don't get any answer, then I'll
assume
that you mean NO and you will have admitted one of the above conditions
for a
NO answer. I can't wait to see the outcome of this one!
Note:
Shockingly, in
response to these posts, Christians have written back to me and
shocking
replied that yes they DO AGREE with God on those infant killing verses
and
ripping pregnant women open verses!!! They argue that since God
is the
creator of life, he has a right to do with people’s lives any way
he
chooses! Furthermore, they argue that we have no right to decide
if those
slaughtered in the Bible by God and his followers were innocent or not,
and
that it wasn’t our business or authority to make that
judgment. And they
claim that if truly innocent people and children were killed in those
mass
slaughters/executions in the Bible, then God would probably have taken
their
souls to heaven, so they were better off anyway! This goes to
prove what
fanatical beliefs can do to one’s mind, morals, reason, and
judgment! And
it’s scary too, considering how potentially dangerous that can
be. After
all, people throughout history have committed mass murders based on
their
religious beliefs or extreme thinking.
Darryl Sloan, a
great thinker
with a popular YouTube Channel, has also issued this same challenge to
Christians in this disturbing but thought-provoking video he made:
(warning - graphic)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrWd3nvGFiE
Sloan has many
brilliant videos
debunking the folly of fanatical Christian fundamentalist thinking. You
can see
them on his YouTube Channel at http://www.youtube.com/darrylsloan
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