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Debunking Christian Circular Arguments and Assumptions

An Unbeatable Challenge to Christians


Here is an unbeatable challenge that you can give to Christians that puts them in a no-win situation and reveals the folly of their fundamentalist beliefs. See these forum posts that I wrote to them long ago that issues this challenge.


1.  First post: 




Christians, I'd like to ask you an interesting question.  I'd like to know whether you personally AGREE or DISAGREE with your God on the following commands:


Do you AGREE with your God that the innocent babies and infants living in the cities that God wants to punish should be dashed against rocks and walls and floors so that they die instantly?


"Happy shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against

the rock!" (Psalms 137:9)


"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled

against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be

dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open." (Hosea 13:16)


"Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is

joined unto them shall fall by the sword.

Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their

houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." (Isaiah 13:15,16)


"Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they

shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare

children." (Isaiah 13:18)


Christians, do you AGREE with your God that the innocent pregnant women living in the city that God punishes should have their stomachs ripped open savagely so that both the woman and fetus die a horrific bloody death?


"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have

rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will

be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open." (Hosea 13:16)


"At that time Menahem, starting out from Tirzah, attacked Tiphsah and

everyone in the city and its vicinity, because they refused to open

their gates. He sacked Tiphsah and ripped open all the pregnant women." 

(2 Kings 15:16)


Just tell me whether you AGREE or DISAGREE with your God on these commands.  Please don't sidestep the question!  I know you can't answer this cause either answer will make you look bad. 


Now I'm going to be civilized here and offer you a way out of this no-win situation here.  And that way is if you are ready to concede that God never commanded or wrote any of this, and therefore these were written by men who had savage and barbaric beliefs and ways that were their own creation due to their primitive animal like nature.


Now think about it.  Do you really think that an all loving, merciful, wise God would give such orders?  Can't you just admit that these words are merely the works of a savage tribe of Israelites who were warlike and barbaric?  It should be s obvious to you by now! 


2.  Second post:


Christians, Visualize THIS!  Could you do it?


Christians, in my previous post entitled "DO YOU AGREE WITH GOD?!" I asked whether you AGREED or DISAGREED with your God that INNOCENT babies and infants should be smashed against rocks and walls and pregnant women should have their stomachs ripped open so that they and their infant die together, as he commanded in the Bible.  In response, a lot of you responded by saying that you do agree with your God or you implied that you agree by saying that "God is always right and just".  Alright, now here's what I want you to do now.  Close your eyes and try to visualize the following:


Suppose you lived in the Old Testament era, and God commanded you to capture a city and then afterward he commands you to take the babies and dash them against the walls or rocks.  Now try to visualize yourself going into one of the captured cities' homes and doing one of the following:  1) From a warm crib, you pick up a LIVING BREATHING flesh and blood baby who is smiling :):):) at you, and then taking it and with all your strength throwing it against the wall as hard as you can!!!!!!  Or, 2) imagine taking the warm LIVING BREATHING flesh and blood smiling :):):) baby and carrying it outside to the edge of a cliff with rocks below, and then purposely DROPPING the warm blooded baby right off of it!!!!!! 




    /\     Could You

      | |

      | |

      | |

      | |

      | |   drop

      | |

      | |

      | |

      | |



     o=< a helpless baby/infant


   To its death?


@@@@@@@@@  Jagged rocks



CAN YOU really do that???  COULD YOU HONESTLY bring yourself to throw a living breathing baby off the cliff???


Now, I know that a lot of you can't (hopefully) so why don't you give yourselves a break and just admit that God would never have commanded these things, and therefore these Old Testament stories never happened, and these books in the Bible are not the word of a loving God, but of fallible men?  Please give yourselves a break and remove your guilt, uneasiness and doubt, and just admit the plain truth.  Stop forcing your mind to believe things that your heart knows not to be true.  It's not really that hard if you try.  I've done it before, and so can you.


3.  Third post:


The Ultimate Challenge to All Christians


I'd like to issue a challenge to all Christian Fundamentalists.  This will be very interesting indeed, cause it will be the ultimate test of how much guts you really have.  After this, you'll never look at these debates the same way again.  Here it goes.


If you'll remember from Genesis 22, God tested Abraham's faith by commanding him to take his baby son Isaac and bring him up to the top of the mountain to sacrifice him to the Lord.  Abraham agreed and was about to do it when the Lord stopped him just in time and said that he had passed the test and proven himself to be faithful.  Now, here's the question and challenge to all you fundamentalists.  IF you lived in the time of Abraham, and God had asked you to take your newborn child up to the mountain, and slay him with a knife or something, would you have done that?  Would you slay your own baby child by slugging a knife into him???!!!  Would you?  Answer YES or NO!  Do not deviate or change the subject, just answer YES or NO, that's all I want to hear.


Now, I bet that a lot of you will not even be willing to answer this.  Here's why.  If you calculate it, this is a lose-lose situation here.  First of all, it's inconceivable that anyone would even think about doing such a thing.  So if you answer YES that you would slay your own child in cold blood, then you would appear to be the most indecent person in human society.  What kind of a person would want to make himself appear that way?  However, if you answer NO to this question, then you would be admitting that you don't always agree with God and that he is not being just or right in asking you to do this.  Therefore, you would be denying your own belief of the absolute righteousness, wisdom and justice of the God of your Bible.  Otherwise, you would have to say that this story is not an actual account, but a myth that the Jews created, and then you would be denying your belief that the Bible is the complete word of God.  So either way, you lose.


So, again I issue the challenge, answer YES or NO!  If I don't get any answer, then I'll assume that you mean NO and you will have admitted one of the above conditions for a NO answer.  I can't wait to see the outcome of this one!


Note:  Shockingly, in response to these posts, Christians have written back to me and shocking replied that yes they DO AGREE with God on those infant killing verses and ripping pregnant women open verses!!!  They argue that since God is the creator of life, he has a right to do with people’s lives any way he chooses!  Furthermore, they argue that we have no right to decide if those slaughtered in the Bible by God and his followers were innocent or not, and that it wasn’t our business or authority to make that judgment.  And they claim that if truly innocent people and children were killed in those mass slaughters/executions in the Bible, then God would probably have taken their souls to heaven, so they were better off anyway!  This goes to prove what fanatical beliefs can do to one’s mind, morals, reason, and judgment!  And it’s scary too, considering how potentially dangerous that can be.  After all, people throughout history have committed mass murders based on their religious beliefs or extreme thinking.


Darryl Sloan, a great thinker with a popular YouTube Channel, has also issued this same challenge to Christians in this disturbing but thought-provoking video he made:


(warning - graphic)


Sloan has many brilliant videos debunking the folly of fanatical Christian fundamentalist thinking. You can see them on his YouTube Channel at

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