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Why I think astrology is false

Discuss Divination, Fortune Telling - Astrology, Tarot, Runes, I Ching, Tea Leaves, etc. and Predictions.

Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby ProfWag » 08 Sep 2009, 18:54

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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby ProfWag » 08 Sep 2009, 19:53

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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby kungfuscience » 09 Sep 2009, 20:03

Well, I'm back and see there's been plenty of discussion.

Don, before I respond, would you mind just naswering a few questions for me please?

Basically, what does astrology do?

If I went to an astrologer, what could they tell me about myself, my past, my future?

How would the stars, planets etc etc relate to this?

I'm not looking for specifics, but just a general summary.

Looking forward to hearing from you and continuing our discussion.
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby Don » 10 Sep 2009, 01:50

Prof, Carlson's work has long been thoroughly disproved. See, for example, the book Moment of Astrology by Geoffrey Cornelius. But if you don't want to read the entire book, look at: http://www.astronlp.com/Carlson%20Astro ... ments.html
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby Don » 10 Sep 2009, 01:57

KFS, that's like asking, "If I went to a doctor, what could he or she do?" The answer, of course, is that it depends upon the doctor. Different doctors do different things. A podiatrist isn't the same as an oncologist, but they're both doctors. They do entirely different things. The same is true with astrology. Different astrologers focus on different things. Any blanket statement I give you is simply going to be false because there will be lots of astrologers who will say, "I don't do that" just as an oncologist will tell you that he or she doesn't treat bunions. A biologist is not a physicist but they're both scientists. A biologist doesn't deal with the effects of gravity.

Why don't you contact a specific astrologer and ask what he or she does, remembering that other astrologers will not be doing the same thing?
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby ProfWag » 10 Sep 2009, 03:49

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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby ProfWag » 10 Sep 2009, 04:11

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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby kungfuscience » 10 Sep 2009, 07:54

Don, you could still be quite general when describing doctors:

A doctor will help heal you when ill. They will look at your symptoms, and use these to evaluate what is wrong, and work out the best course of treatment. They base this on Evidence Based Medicine.

Let's try a different tack:

Could an astrologer who knows nothing about me what so ever, and who has never met me, produce a description of my personality if they knew exactly when and where I was born?
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby Don » 17 Sep 2009, 04:40

Carlson's work was disproved: that is, it has been shown that his conclusions are not evident for his work.

Natal astrology: (Wikipedia is okay) Natal astrology is the system of astrology based upon the concept that each individual's personality or path in life can be determined by constructing a natal chart for the exact date, time, and location of a person's birth.

Progressed Horoscope: While viewing the date of birth for an individual in an ephemeris, one would count forward the number of days equal to the persons age at the time the reading is desired. A horoscope for that time and place is constructed and interpreted.

Chart Comparisons: Looks at the relationships between the horoscopes of two people and compares them to find areas where they are compatible or challenging.


You wrote:
"So, if I go back to earlier posts between us, you have said it’s not a question of how accurate the birth time must be to produce a “valuable reading,” but rather it’s that the more accurate the birth time the more accurately representative a reading will be. According to the above reference, Natal’s must be exact. If not, please provide a reference."

If you're doing any sort of scientific investigation, the more accurate your observation and calculation, the more accurate the results will be. If a person doesn't have his or her exact time of birth, it is believed possible to discover it through the time-consuming process known as chart rectification.

You wrote: I can’t seem to find anything in my science journals.

Nope. But I bet you won't find an analysis of the Beatle's "A Day in the Life" in your science journals, either. Why should they have anything that is outside their areas of specialization. Likewise, I'll be you could look in every astrological journal that's ever been published and not find any articles on string theory or Mendel's fraud in his record keeping with his peas. That's not their area of specialization, either.

You wrote:
So, if I go see her, should I bring my birth certificate so she can see what time I was born? Not trying to be cocky, just curious.

You could. But why not just write down the exact time and place of your birth? There's no need to bring your birth certificate. She's not giving out passports! :lol:


You wrote: Now, to comment on another of your earlier comments concerning twins. You quickly pointed out to me how twins separated at birth can grow up with surprisingly similar characteristics. Now, you may or may not know, but twins are often born several minutes to several hours apart, yet they have similar characteristics. Shouldn’t their stars have aligned differently if they were born, say, an hour apart? Remember, you said it was unlikely that two people were born in the same hospital at the same time. You have mentioned rectification as a way to determine when a person was born. But I don't see how the exact time can be deteremined. Thus, if one doesn't have a birth certificate, then they can't get a reading that is "accurately representative." Looking forward to your rebuttals and to my continued education!


I wrote they have "surprisingly similar characteristics," not that they were perfectly alike. In an astrology chart, the Moon and Mercury move very fast while Jupiter and Uranus, for example, move much more slowly. Yes, I know that twins can be born several hours (or even several days or weeks) apart. As a result, they will have some similarities and some differences. The longer the period between births, the more differences between them.

I would love to see some research on two people from different families born in the same hospital at the same time (or almost the same time). According to astrology, they should have some psychological similarities that are striking. To the best of my knowledge, such research has never been done. The problem with such research would be determining 1) how do you determine "similarities" and 2) how do you determine mere chance vs. some relationship based on unknown factors?
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby Don » 17 Sep 2009, 04:48

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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby ciscop » 17 Sep 2009, 11:28

For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby kungfuscience » 19 Sep 2009, 07:46

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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby ciscop » 19 Sep 2009, 10:59

good luck to your friend
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby Don » 23 Sep 2009, 01:34

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Re: Why I think astrology is false

Postby Don » 23 Sep 2009, 01:55

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