Discuss Conspiracies and Cover Ups - e.g. 9/11 Truth, JFK Assassination, New World Order, Roswell, Moon Hoax, Secret Societies, etc. whatever conspiracy floats your boat.
Arouet Wrote: "When you package things in a certain way, at first blush it can look convincing - but what you need to do is tear it down, and look at the premises - are they true? If true, do the conclusions follow from the premises? Are the premises provided in the proper context? Are there other conclusions that are also supported by the same set of facts? Are the facts presented objectively?"
Arouet, I am not here to package things. Far from it. What I am trying to illustrate is cause and effect weighed against historical differences in the record. I am a firm believer that one has to look at the mechanics of control and its relation to power in order to get to the facts. It is why I pointed out Sibel Edmonds' book. All the facts in the world whether from both sides will not allow one to understand how things really work. This cannot be taught. You alone have to discover this. Only then can a dialog of facts be had.
Here's what I'll do. I'm going to pick another topic from your most recent list to try and delve into further. My only criteria will be that it catches my interest. I'll tackle it in the same way I did the other topics.
Not likely, really? By the 60s, they weren't using soldiers as guinea pigs in nuclear tests any more. There was a huge sea change in the 50s in terms of litigation, workers rights, compensation and so on. In the 50s you could justify killing workers for the sake of profits, not in the 60s. Further, they couldn't report crashed moon landers, dead astronauts, etc, to the world, it would be terribly demoralising and have the opposite effect of that intended, of demonstrating supremacy in space technology, beating the Russians, and so on. You wouldn't be #1 at all, you would be great big fat failures with the blood of dead astronauts on your hands.
The best way to get the whole Apollo space program pulled and concede defeat to the Russians would be to have some fatalities. Fatalities were the justification for pulling the space shuttle program, for instance. And these guys were celebrities, and highly paid test pilots trained at great cost, not just dispensable grunts. There is some evidence to suggest in fact that Yuri Gagarin actually didn't go into orbit, just in case the mission failed, and it was also a PR job.
And after those missions, why has no-one ever gone back to the moon again? If it was such a great frontier, and so, so easy to get to 6 times over without a hitch, and all successful returns too, landing on a dime. This is the other big smoking gun in the whole affair -- nobody has done anything but go into low orbit ever since the supposed missions. Nobody has the blueprints any more for the modules either. You think you would be able to send module after module, they could churn them out like an assembly line on demand, given that they were so successful and could land on the moon without a hitch, then spend a day or two dancing around on the moon and clowning around before getting back in the car and going home again with no problems.
So, nice try, but everything goes against what you're suggesting -- politically, and in science. It's not a Captain Kirk wild west of space type frontier at all. It's a dangerous place, and no-one has been. But if that is what you want to 'believe', against all the evidence and odds, if it makes you feel any better about yourself, go ahead and believe it.
Then of course there is the trap Bart Sibrel set for Buzz Aldrin I think it was, where it appeared Buzz could not describe what it was like passing through the van Allen belts -- you would see constant stars and flashes on the back of your retinas. He obviously hadn't experienced it when asked. Space shuttle crew have observed it more recently flying through the very lowest reaches of the belts. That would have probably continued at a slightly reduced level for the rest of the journey to the moon and back due to solar radiation. He was very uncomfortable and seemed very caught out psychologically by it, which is another telling aspect. Then there is the 'we were just passengers' excuse, 'why don't you ask NASA where we went?'. Hello? A very spirited defence, not.
Then there is the ongoing confusion between different astronauts as to whether they could see stars on the journey out. Some say yes, others say no. When you ask the nos about the yeses, they get very angry and say the yeses don't know what they're talking about. Then they go back to trying to sell their latest book or sell their memorabilia for $100,000 a pop and try to get the person questioning shut down and evicted from proceedings.
These guys are as big a hoax as the fake psychics. And so is the government behind them.
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