what exactly drives the skeptical ??

[brett]

as i sit here perusing the various articles on this forum and others , i am perplexed by one question , and that is WHAT drives the skeptics , what is their agenda ??

to explain : for the believer in the "paranormal " there are many amongst which may be ,they have /are/do

had an experience that is out of the ordinary and wish to share it with others

are curious about possibilities of afterlife existence

realise that "science" does not have ALL the answers

but the skeptic and debunkers - WHAT drives them ?? after all IF the paranormal is all BS ,delusion , made up , whatever , WHY do they waste their lives posting so much vitriol ?? - surly any normal person would just dismiss them as weird and let them get on with it , do someone else's beliefs REALLY matter that much to them , that they NEED to somehow PROVE to the world that THEY are right ?? -or do they have some "mission" to protect all "right thinking " people from us nutters ?? who believe in ghosties and ghoulies and things that may ( or may not ) go bump in the night

are they afraid that a tide of "irrationality" ( in their eyes) is going to sweep the world - corrupting the children and , maybe, leaving them to actually ASK questions of accepted dogma and "perceived " wisdom , - or is this all part of an orchestrated campaign to "dumb down " the populous ( heck there's enough of that going on on TV now ) - so that it is some how considered WRONG to ask questions - to investigate things that others seemingly "disapprove " of - to DARE to question the "OFFICIAL LINE " ??

and WHO are these people ?? - go to any forum and you will find virtually everyone hides behind a sudonim , here forinstance so far only myself and bill use our real names ( my apologies if there are others ) - and whilst i realise that some may wish to protect their identities for perfectly good reasons ,( in the case of those who "believe" fear of ridicule by friends,family and possibly work colleagues ) i do wonder if those who are so vehement in their skeptical beliefs should not at least have the guts to say who they really are - IF one is convinced in the rightness of ones arguments , why hide behind a name ??

may be its along the lines of those who have different sexual orientations - they FEAR ' coming out " - but whats to fear ?? - why not stand up fore square and proclaim your beliefs ?? - do any of you REALLY think the world will think worse of you ?? ( or more to the point WHY do you care ?? ) after all do any of those who you worry about OWN you ?? - no of course they don't , none of you OWN me , and 99.9999% of the world does not give a rats arras about what I believe - so why do you skeptics ?? - and what if anything would you gain from "turning " me , compliance ?? , loyalty to the cause ?? - what ??

so my question to the SKEPTICS is simply this ?? - what IS it that drives you ?? - WHY do you care so much that some of us "believe " ?? , after all do you care so much if someone has faith in a particular GOD ?? - DO YOU spend hours on sites attacking THEIR beliefs ?? - when by the demonstrated standards of skeptical thinking , god has as much credibility as your average ghost - just what IS the difference in the "entities" and possibility of continuance of existence that we believe in ,to those postulated by many world religions ??

probably to be fair , some skeptics are as puzzled about us as we are about you - - but in this case I am asking the question

[brett]

no replies yet ??- well I AM surprised - aww come on guys you must know what causes you to be a skeptic - or maybe I have made you stop and think

[ciscop]

hello!..

well there´s 2 topics that concern me the most

since i am a magician (more a mentalist, but lets keep it real, mentalism is magic)
i like to follow the footsteps of people i admire like houdini, randi, richard wiseman and penn and teller and keep it real with the claims of the psychics and espiritist, i live in a country where people still perform ¨cleaning ups¨ with eggs, and i care for people giving up their hard earned money to nothing but a scam artist.

and all the alternative paraphernalia.. i had an aunt that was about to die because she went to one of those naturists doctors.. i hate the thought that because and out of ignorance, instead of attending herself with a real doctor he went to this snake oil salesman..

so in the real world i think i am educating people
here on this forum.. since i know i wont convince anybody, i am just having fun :p

good enough?

[brett]

[wjbeaty]

[brett]

well i had not thought about it that way bill - nice one - i know what will happen now , the Pskeptics will seize on this as PROOF that we believers are all psychopaths - i wont be surprised if that reply gets syndicated round a few skeptic sites

[NinjaPuppy]

'Group Think' is very true of most internet based communities and how they work. Thanks wjbeaty.

[wjbeaty]

[Hellboy]

A lot of what Bill lists as psychopathic tendencies can be seen in everyday public services and large businesses with a monopoly in their respective markets.

I have experienced both the private and public sector as an employee in the UK. From my experience, the public sector seems to actively encourage: Ratting on other employees, bullying of others with minority viewpoints, bullying and demeaning of employees who can actively think for themselves without the need to follow opinion based on bias and herd mentality. Bullying of employees who demonstrate superior abilities to those who supposedly manage them.

Don't get me wrong the private sector does suffer from some of the aforementioned, however being subject to a bit more reality/market forces. The private sector has to be a bit more realistic without the need to be cushioned by pc nonsense that creates more problem than it solves! In effect the so called box ticking tactics are actually counterproductive to what they are trying to readdress.

The herd mentality exists within believer and skeptic forums/organizations whether one likes to admit it or not.
Personally I find this approach abhorrent and totally against true free thinking! I do not like anyone or any organisation that lays claim to the so called truth. The fact is truth is dependent on many factors in other words the perception of truth is dependant on the majority agreeing on a hypothesis, whether the hypothesis agrees with the evidence or group agreement.
In other words truth is mutable, not something set in stone for eternity.

I agree with true skeptics that evidence should be paramount; unfortunately there are many so called skeptics which deliberately distort and twist evidence or the lack of it into something it is not! At the other extreme you have the believer claiming I experienced it therefore it cannot be questioned! Ok these are probably extreme examples; however there are people who have these extreme points of view. Both extremes are great for inflaming passions and encourage the tub thumping idiots; however the actual debate yet again suffers.

Just my opinion of course.

[wjbeaty]

[ProfWag]

I have this bad habit of not looking at all of the new posts. Sorry for not responding earlier. I've stated before on this and other forums just why I speak out. People get hurt, especially with psychics, mediums, and the like. They get hurt financially and emotionally. As for other things that may or may not hurt people, I think that people need to call out BS when it's seen. If nobody were to present evidence to the contrary concerning UFOs, Bigfoot, etc., then all sorts of lies and deceit would run rampant. I, personally, don't want to live in a society filled with lies. I prefer honesty. If someone honestly sees a ghost or a Bigfoot, then fine, let's investigate its authenticity. Things such as the Patterson Film, Roswell, etc. have so many holes in the story it's hard to know what's right and what is wrong and I tend to believe that much of the things surrounding these stories are dishonest attempts to spark controversy.
Susanne Somers is another examaple of why skeptics speak out. If you had her way and Jenny McCarthy's way, we would not use conventional medicine to treat cancers and autism. We would not have that vaccines that have wiped out polio and other extremely deadly diseases. Speaking of Somers, her new book that she is making the rounds touting is prime material for us skeptics who hopefully begin speaking out against her claims. She will cause people to die. Period.
I encourage you to visit http://whatstheharm.net/ if you haven't before. Granted, it's a site made by skeptics and it supports my agenda. Arguments presented therein on a topic such as homeopathy could also be attributed to current medicine as well. However, there are many people who have been harmed by all sorts of things paranormal and non-traditional. Hope that answers your question.
Oh, not sure why knowing my first name is important. If you feel the need to know my name, please PM me and I'll happily reveal my full name to you (with a couple of exceptions). I trust most of you. I would just as well not have trolls know it.

[brett]

yea now that's fair do's prof - i would agree with you there , and as you know or will come to realise i detest the BS from "our" side - the problem is that we have got SO MUCH BS surrounding the subject these days ( the paranormal that is , and other things as well ) that those of us with a GENUINE spirit of enquiry ( or who have had what they consider genuine experiences ) on EITHER side of the divide , cant see the wood for the trees - then throw in all the "MOTIVE" surrounding the whole thing ( mainly financial /ego/ whatever ) and we have the mess we are in today with the subject

personally i would love it if all the "wannabees /fakes/ BS merchants etc etc / armchair pontificators ET AL ALL just went away leaving the GENUINE BELEIVERS AND SCEPTICS ( note spelling please ) + some investigative scientific types , so we could TOGETHER go forward and REALLY investigate claimed paranormal activity in a sensible and logical manner ( oh and chuck in such disciplines as historical research etc for good measure ) - but as they say "it ain't gonna happen "

as to the hiding behind sudonyms - well that was a snipe really - and the fact you are happy to divulge your name privately - speaks volumes for you cred

( I use mine as i have no need to do otherwise - but that's my choice )

[ProfWag]

[NinjaPuppy]

A hex? Awwww, come on now ProfWag, you don't really believe in that do you?

[ProfWag]