What is the chance of ETs being humanoid?

[SydneyPSIder]

Something that occurred to me recently -- given the nature of evolution and the vast variety of life forms just on earth, and the fact that other planets would be larger/smaller/longer year/shorter year, etc, and that we have evolved from a particular branch of primates with a rotating shoulder and jointed elbows and knees, and forward facing eyes with binocular vision to see fruit in the jungle, and flat nails and not claws, and opposable thumbs to grasp branches, and so on and so forth, why would you expect life forms on other planets, intelligent or relatively unintelligent, to in any way resemble humans or be humanoid in appearance, a la the supposed appearance of 'greys' and all the other hypothesised beasties that certain people claim to know all about intimately. (With never any real photographic evidence.) Thoughts? What could an intelligent ET, perhaps capable of space travel, look like? 10 arms?

And given the nature of carbon-based life forms on a watery planet, they could also be similar to fish, amphibians, reptiles, or mammals.... not to say reptiles could not have gotten ahead on another planet... or starfish....

[SydneyPSIder]

bump.... I'm exploring the UFO threads now aince the site's quiet... not a lot to report....

[Arouet]

I don't think there is any reason to expect humanoid-like lifeforms on other planets - not if evolution is by natural selection. Have no idea how to calculate the odds though.

[SydneyPSIder]

Given that we have a rotating shoulder as a primate that evolved really just to swing through branches and avoid predators on the forest floor, and an opposable thumb just for grasping branches, it's kind of lucky that we evolved big brains and could use these things to throw things at prey, and eventually fashion and use tools. Bipedalism seemed to come about from the Kenyan Rift opening up and advantaging chimps who could stand upright to look over the savannah, and run after things.

This is all a preface really to calling BS on the imagery of the 'greys' and all the other supposed humanoid ETs that get written about and described in great detail -- all bipedal, long legs, adapted feet for walking (even chimps have feet like hands with an opposable big toe that they can use to pick things up etc), hands for gripping, human appearance, etc. They seem to be an artifact of human consciousness and imagination more than anything.

It might be possible for intelligent ETs to be insect-like also, or crustacean-like, with many legs. Although the exoskeletons of insects supposedly limit the size to which they can grow as a genus by and large -- they have to keep shedding skeletons to grow larger, etc...

[NinjaPuppy]

I say that they are similar to lichen.

[SydneyPSIder]

lol. a super-intelligent colony of lichen with a hivemind... how do they go at building spaceships?

[NinjaPuppy]

[Twain Shakespeare]

The odds are incalculable, since we have only one sample.
However, their are the alternative theories of panspermia, or of the extraterrstial origin of life
This is known to be possible (at the level of replicating chains of amino acid, which some evidence indicates may have arrived via cometary or ateridal impact.)
However, the evidence at this point indcates that gentic codes also evolved (dif dialects exist between mDNA and cDna, so that the biochemistry can recognie which instructions are far sub cellular vs transcellular metabolosm.
According to classic evolutionary theory, evolution developes "randomly". So the next question is, is their something inherent in the human form that allows the development of intelligence or technology?
Even on Earth alone, chimps and other apes, crows, ravens, parrots, and squids, octopi and cetaceans show intelligence on such a level that they might plausibly be on the verge, at least, of a linguistic consciousness. But noy even an intelligent form evolved from other primates would be likely to be confused with a human, anymore than a modern chimp is. (continued)

[Twain Shakespeare]

However, even if a linguistic intelligence evolved in the form of an a whale, it would lack the means of manipulating its environment. Such an intelligence in he form of an elephant, a octopus, or a bird, they would have means of manipulating the environment (although it might be tough for a bird) However, some environments are more manipulatble than others. It is hard to see how an aquatic intelligence could progress beyond stone age technology (without access to at least a volacanic heat source to allow some metallurgy)

This brings us to the question of environment. Less than a quarter of the earth's surface is suitable for civilzation, and earth appears to be an atypical planet in an atypical steller system, which takes us about as far as my thoughts have gone in this direction. Apparntly, et-ologist must conside the possibility of, not only non water-based ife, but of water based life evolved under jovian pressure and venerian heat.

Now, when we consider the evidence of "ufos", if accepted for the sake of argument, the visitors apparently are adapted to earthlike conditions. I considering that so unlikely as to think the Roswell aliens, if they exist, should be considered strong evidence of panspermia. But their are other theories that would account for the similarity, and might even explain anal probes. Suppose a non-carbon based intelligence should visit earth. Beings who eat arsenic, and drink copper sulfate cooled to a mere 1200 degrees, for example. It would be unlikely they would attempt exploration wearing anything so cumbesome as a spacesuit, especially given they have atech capable of cossing the void.
It is far likelier they would use androids or biochem robots as exploratory devices with which they would interface.
These are the humanoids we would see, artificial beings adapted for use in our environment, and interaction with us. It also explains the unfinished and cartoonish appearance of the greys. They are cartoons, and they are unfinished in that they are artificially designed for a narrow ange of purposes, and not for independent, self-perpetrating lives. Not being products of evolutin, they are incomplete from the perspective we have, and look unfinished.

Conclusion, baring strong panspermia, anything as humanoid as a raptor in a spacesuit even, is unlikely to have evolved elsewhere, but the likelihood that artificial humanoid form devices would be used to observe the subsentient inhabitants of earth is much much higher!

[Arouet]

Hey Twain! Welcome back. But did someone hack your account? I mean, I understood everything you wrote there! What's up with that???

But seriously, even if our basic building blocks came from outerspace, the evolutionary path, as you pointed out, would be different given the environment. And you are indeed right that we have no way of calculating the odds.

But I think you may be off on how many potential planets could be out there that could conceivably sustain life. I was listening to a This Week in Science podcast this week recorded earlier this year, and I believe they estimates have vastly increased for the possibility of those types of planets. I think the story said there could be millions or billions of them (if I understood it correctly).

There's also no reason to believe that other intelligent species will not evolve here on earth. Dolphins are supposed to be pretty smart, and as you pointed out the other primate lines could evolve into something new. And no doubt our species will make way for the next (if we don't get wiped out first).

[Grichard]

I've wondered before whether the humanoid "aliens" people have reported seeing are in fact our descendants from the far future, come back in time to study us. In rather the same way that we would go back and study our early ancestors if we had the ability to time travel. It would explain why they are similar, but subtly different from us. Now there's a topic for debate!

[Twain Shakespeare]

[SydneyPSIder]

[SydneyPSIder]

[Twain Shakespeare]