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10 natural formations made by aliens

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10 natural formations made by aliens

Postby Nostradamus » 18 Mar 2010, 02:55

From http://scifiwire.com/2010/03/10-natural-formations-that-mightve-been-built-by-ancient-aliens.php

In a lighter look at evidence for UFOs we learn about aliens and the movies mmde about them:
What's puzzling is that in none of these franchises[movies] do aliens advise man to turn down housing loans he can't afford. Scientists believe this is because ancient aliens were dicks.
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Re: 10 natural formations made by aliens

Postby NinjaPuppy » 18 Mar 2010, 04:22

That was both amazing and funny as all heck.
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Re: 10 natural formations made by aliens

Postby Nostradamus » 18 Mar 2010, 04:24

I had not seen all of the formations either. The chock stones in China are amazing. I've seen some interesting ones, but not as dramatic as that. The elephant's trunk in Red Red Canyon outside of Vegas is similar, but no where near as dramatic.
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Re: 10 natural formations made by aliens

Postby NinjaPuppy » 18 Mar 2010, 04:25

Which brings me to this question: "If scientists can't figure out what they can see with their own two eyes, feel, smell and test the physical evidence in a laboratory... how do they figure they can disprove things like psi which they can't even see? Think about that for a few moments.
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Re: 10 natural formations made by aliens

Postby Nostradamus » 18 Mar 2010, 11:40

This is a misleading statement in a way NinjaPuppy. You are asking the scientists to prove a universal negative. You can't prove that psi does not exist. What is stated is that the evidence for psi does not exist. After many experiments the conclusion is that it does not. But the conclusion is not proof, it is an inference.

Here you say that scientists do not trust their subjective senses and turn to objective measurements. That is true. There is importance in using an objective measurement system. It's a way to allow someone else to replicate the results. But, the person is often an important part of the loop. In medical studies the identification of the structures observed in a microscope is difficult. A person states yes or no to an observed object. It is or is not something they are interested in studying. For example, is the cell a neuron or glial cell. They look a bit different. Writing a computer program that can successfully differentiate the two is difficult (as in it isn't done). So taking a person completely out of the measurement loop is not really done.

So how can psi be detected in the lab? It can be done in the lab if the results can be reduced a decidable question. I mentioned to Daz Smith that the problem with remote viewing was leaving the question up to others to decide. My suggestion was to have the viewer decide. He agreed that was the way to do it scientifically, but he said his methodology was to leave the answer up to the client. Now this agreement on our parts does not mean that we chose a good idea. What it really suggests is that it is likely that a method can be worked out that makes the issue more of a yes-no decision.
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Re: 10 natural formations made by aliens

Postby NinjaPuppy » 18 Mar 2010, 19:33

Nostradamus wrote:This is a misleading statement in a way NinjaPuppy. You are asking the scientists to prove a universal negative. You can't prove that psi does not exist. What is stated is that the evidence for psi does not exist. After many experiments the conclusion is that it does not. But the conclusion is not proof, it is an inference.

In what way is my statement misleading? Yes, you can't prove a negative. That is the skeptic creedo. But I'm not asking that a negative be proven, . I merely asked that the reader to "think about the question for a moment".

Is it true that there are physical things on this earth that science can not explain? Things that can be visually seen, touched and in fact be fully tested under proper laboratory conditions? Yes.

ND wrote:Here you say that scientists do not trust their subjective senses and turn to objective measurements. That is true. There is importance in using an objective measurement system. It's a way to allow someone else to replicate the results. But, the person is often an important part of the loop. In medical studies the identification of the structures observed in a microscope is difficult. A person states yes or no to an observed object. It is or is not something they are interested in studying. For example, is the cell a neuron or glial cell. They look a bit different. Writing a computer program that can successfully differentiate the two is difficult (as in it isn't done). So taking a person completely out of the measurement loop is not really done.

Agree. I believe that this is a very strong reason why there has been very little studied lately about things paranormal:
QUOTE TAKEN FROM ABOVE COMMENT wrote:It is or is not something they are interested in studying.

That's fine too. There are more important issues that need to be addressed such as medical cures and better fuel options and let's just say improving life on the planet for humans rather than me list a bunch of stuff here. Do you agree with me so far?

Researching why little Johnny keeps seeing grandma in his bedroom closet probably won't turn up grant money or funding quite as well as breeding a square tomato that will ship better, even if it tastes like crap. (the tomato, not grandma)

Cont.....

So how can psi be detected in the lab? It can be done in the lab if the results can be reduced a decidable question. I mentioned to Daz Smith that the problem with remote viewing was leaving the question up to others to decide. My suggestion was to have the viewer decide. He agreed that was the way to do it scientifically, but he said his methodology was to leave the answer up to the client. Now this agreement on our parts does not mean that we chose a good idea. What it really suggests is that it is likely that a method can be worked out that makes the issue more of a yes-no decision.
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Re: 10 natural formations made by aliens

Postby NinjaPuppy » 18 Mar 2010, 19:40

Cont....

ND wrote:So how can psi be detected in the lab? It can be done in the lab if the results can be reduced a decidable question. I mentioned to Daz Smith that the problem with remote viewing was leaving the question up to others to decide. My suggestion was to have the viewer decide. He agreed that was the way to do it scientifically, but he said his methodology was to leave the answer up to the client. Now this agreement on our parts does not mean that we chose a good idea. What it really suggests is that it is likely that a method can be worked out that makes the issue more of a yes-no decision.

So if psi can be detected in the lab with the right question, then why do skeptics say it doesn't exist? I'm not suggesting that psi does or doesn't exist. I am asking why skeptics and some scientist claim that psi doesn't exist at all?

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that science doesn't know, at this time IF psi exists? Stating that it doesn't exist is a conclusion. Basically, GAME OVER. I don't believe that is the truth. With further study it may become the answer but why do skeptics keep quoting "it doesn't exist" and why all the negativity during discussion?

No, it's not proven. Science has not been able to do much with the subject to give a 'yes' answer either. The negative answer seems more accurate (at this time) but there have been many scientific discoveries that would have been impossible to prove or perfect just a few decades ago that are now part of our everyday routine. If a true skeptic is someone who is looking for the truth, why not look for people who make extrodinary claims and pick their brains until there is nothing left to pick? It's not up to skeptics, it's up to science to tell the person making the claim that they are whackjobs. It seems that the JREF has put that power in their hands and taken it away from science. Not that it's a bad thing, as we can see that there are more rip off artists out there than perhaps people with insight. That sure is a fact that has been proven time and time again by skeptics.
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Re: 10 natural formations made by aliens

Postby Nostradamus » 18 Mar 2010, 21:46

I certainly agree that you can't prove psi doesn't exist. That is not possible. There is always the possibility that some form of psi can be proven clearly and decisively. What hasn't happened is the clear demonstration of psi to date. Part of the issue is reproducibility.

The reason many skeptics say psi doesn't exist is that the evidence to date is that it doesn't exist. Or to remove all of these negatives, skeptics say there is little evidence that psi exists.

If someone holds a rock and let's it go we notice that the rocks drop. That doesn't mean every rock let go everywhere and every time will drop, but we believe all rocks will drop. That's an issue few would dispute, but I've seen discussions where it has been. Now take something a little more complicated. A drug trial may have a less certain result. Or it might be a toxicological study. So 10 subjects are given an experimental substance or placebo. If no subjects receiving the placebo showing a reaction, but all of the experimental group show a reaction do we in fact have evidence that the substance is a risk? What if the next study shows only 3 of the 5 experimental subjects showing a reaction. What if 10 more experiments are done and someone discovers complicating factors?

Pretty soon the initial positive result doesn't look as interesting. The result is a lot of murkier than the first experiment that was reported.

So we are left with a great deal of uncertainty in many issues. It is my understanding that the evidence for psi is on the same order as many studies in medicine. I think a good example of this was a study that splashed across news magazines claiming a caffeine-cancer link. Subsequent studies showed that the initial study was a false positive. It happens.
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Re: 10 natural formations made by aliens

Postby NinjaPuppy » 19 Mar 2010, 04:23

Thank you. Very well put.

I also understand that research money is poured into things that have a dollar return as well. That would make paranormal studies more of a hobby or special interest.
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Re: 10 natural formations made by aliens

Postby Nostradamus » 19 Mar 2010, 08:54

I agree on the money return. If you can put a dollar return on the investment it meets the capitalist agenda. There is lots of money going into schizophrenia research because it costs the government billions each year. Unless you can show that psi is a money saver you end up in the list of things that might be fun to do. What's interesting is often left for others to do - the unfunded others.
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