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Another example of a fraudulent "psychic"

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Re: Another example of a fraudulent "psychic"

Postby ProfWag » 29 Sep 2009, 19:01

quantumparanormal wrote:
ProfWag wrote:Feel free to read this post from the JREF posted just a couple days ago and then send a copy of your post to Jeff to counter his claim. http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swi ... at-if.html I didn't see it until after my post, however, it is similar. Perhaps we are talking about two different things, however, any proof of psi would be signficant in my mind.


I will take a look at this when time permits. However, I'd need to see his specific claim(s) in order to respond appropriately accordingly, as what I've posted her pertains specifically to what we're talking about here, not to what, specifically, he is [Jeff] "claiming."

Starting tomorrow, I have many new projects on my plate, so I won't be able to come on this forum as often as I'd like. That means my posts will be shorter. I'm sure some of you will enjoy less of my "rambling." :lol:

You can take the time to write a counter-argument to my statement about psi "changing the world" because you enjoy trying to make other people look ignorant, yet when I show that you are wrong, you coward back in a corner and say you will look at it "when time permits." That's pretty shallow of you QP. The article is much smaller than anything you ever write. It's a shame you can call names and point out other peoples illogical posts, yet can't stand to be wrong.
Enjoy your projects. I hope you can prove something.
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Re: Another example of a fraudulent "psychic"

Postby NinjaPuppy » 29 Sep 2009, 21:05

ProfWag wrote:People who can demonstrate psi capabilities with ANY type of predictability would stand to gain a lot of money, ya' know. That's why I'm really curious as to why, if there is such data and people with these capabilities out there, they aren't stepping forward. It's not really that difficult QP. You say they could be out there. I'm saying they could be also, but where are they?


There are a few people who seem to demonstrate psi capabilities who do in fact make a lot of money. The two that come to me off the top of my head are John Edward and Sylvia Brown. You don't have to like them, believe them or care to acknowledge them but they do make a lot of money for what seems to be demonstrations of psi capabilities. No, they don't have any scientific data to back up their claims but they and many like them have stepped forward. Many people have stepped forward claiming to have psi only to be ridiculed, publicly embarrased, harassed etc. Not necessarily by the scientific community but by their families, friends etc. The psi road to self induced humiliation is stepping forward and claiming that you have an unexplained gift.
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Re: Another example of a fraudulent "psychic"

Postby ProfWag » 29 Sep 2009, 21:19

NinjaPuppy wrote:
ProfWag wrote:People who can demonstrate psi capabilities with ANY type of predictability would stand to gain a lot of money, ya' know. That's why I'm really curious as to why, if there is such data and people with these capabilities out there, they aren't stepping forward. It's not really that difficult QP. You say they could be out there. I'm saying they could be also, but where are they?


There are a few people who seem to demonstrate psi capabilities who do in fact make a lot of money. The two that come to me off the top of my head are John Edward and Sylvia Brown. You don't have to like them, believe them or care to acknowledge them but they do make a lot of money for what seems to be demonstrations of psi capabilities. No, they don't have any scientific data to back up their claims but they and many like them have stepped forward. Many people have stepped forward claiming to have psi only to be ridiculed, publicly embarrased, harassed etc. Not necessarily by the scientific community but by their families, friends etc. The psi road to self induced humiliation is stepping forward and claiming that you have an unexplained gift.

I should probably clarify that the "money" statement was referring to any one of over two dozen organizations that offer money for proof of the paranormal.
Perhaps they do feel they would be ridiculed, which is a shame really. There are lesser known organizations than the JREF, however, that offer money for proof of the paranormal and would be far less public with their experiments.
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Re: Another example of a fraudulent "psychic"

Postby quantumparanormal » 29 Sep 2009, 23:27

ProfWag wrote:I show that you are wrong...


Enlighten me. Show me how I'm wrong.
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Re: Another example of a fraudulent "psychic"

Postby quantumparanormal » 29 Sep 2009, 23:31

ProfWag wrote:...yet when I show that you are wrong, you coward back in a corner and say you will look at it "when time permits." That's pretty shallow of you QP.


Talk about pretty shallow... remember the following?

ProfWag wrote:... probably several copies to include the audio version, one for next to your toilet, and several abridged versions to pass out to strangers on the street ...


When you are confronted with logical arguments and evidence that contradict your claims, demonstrating those claims are indeed wrong, you are the one to be a "coward," backing up into a corner, and the resultant behavior is the type of which is displayed above.

ProfWag wrote:Look QP, it's been fun, but as I've been saying for a while, I simply am still pretty busy in life. Coupled with the FACT that my mother is on her deathbed. Her eyes are sinking back in their sockets, her skin is clammy, her hands are curling inwards, and she's been unresponsive for 2 days now. So, once I take care of things at home, I'll be back... http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=446&p=4458&hilit=fbi+agents#p4457


Additionally, I could have used the same argument about you being a"coward" and "backed into a corner" during our 9/11 debate, but I didn't, as I indeed assumed you were telling the truth about you "being busy in life" and your mother being sick, but I'm not that "shallow" of a person to assume such a thing, but yet you have the audacity to use my being busy with projects as "evidence" I'm backing away, and that that somehow means I am wrong? Who's the shallow one? Who's the illogical one? I think that's very obvious.

There's just no point. You just do not possess the logical faculties necessary to make it worthwhile for me to debate you, and you have the nerve to wonder why I call you ignorant. Unbelievable. :roll:
Last edited by quantumparanormal on 29 Sep 2009, 23:54, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Another example of a fraudulent "psychic"

Postby quantumparanormal » 29 Sep 2009, 23:35

NinjaPuppy wrote:There are a few people who seem to demonstrate psi capabilities who do in fact make a lot of money. The two that come to me off the top of my head are John Edward and Sylvia Brown. You don't have to like them, believe them or care to acknowledge them but they do make a lot of money for what seems to be demonstrations of psi capabilities. No, they don't have any scientific data to back up their claims but they and many like them have stepped forward. Many people have stepped forward claiming to have psi only to be ridiculed, publicly embarrased, harassed etc. Not necessarily by the scientific community but by their families, friends etc. The psi road to self induced humiliation is stepping forward and claiming that you have an unexplained gift.


And there's an obvious reason why: when and where, exactly, a single person can demonstrate psi capabilities is largely unpredictable, as the probability of psi occurring is too low for it to be repeatable very often. In other words, take one person, for example, and tell him to influence just a few REG bits, and most likely he won't be able to influence them beyond chance expectation. However, over many, many trials, that person will probably be able to influence the REG bits beyond chance expectation, as that is what the data shows us (yes, there indeed is data supporting this). Psi is a weak effect. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist. ProfWag et al will, however, take that to mean "no one" can demonstrate psi abilities. :roll:
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Re: Another example of a fraudulent "psychic"

Postby ProfWag » 30 Sep 2009, 00:25

quantumparanormal wrote:
Talk about pretty shallow... remember the following?

ProfWag wrote:... probably several copies to include the audio version, one for next to your toilet, and several abridged versions to pass out to strangers on the street ...


When you are confronted with logical arguments and evidence that contradict your claims, demonstrating those claims are indeed wrong, you are the one to be a "coward," backing up into a corner, and the resultant behavior is the type of which is displayed above.

Quantumparanormal,
I attempted to make a joke about your favoritism of Dean Radin's work. I offended you, I admitted it was wrong of me, and I sincerely apologized for my remark. Yet, you bring it up again.
For everyone else, the following are just a few of the comments from QuantumParanormal to me or about me thoughout the course of our debates. For the record, I found them all offensive.
“I'm beginning to wonder if you simply enjoy being wrong or if you're just ignorant.”
“They simply show your emotional immaturity.”
“You've really outdone yourself here.”
“You've really shown your bias and illogical nature here.”
“Again, this shows ignorance on your part.”
“You are beginning to discredit yourself even more. It's baffling. I would expect such a thing from ciscop, but not from you.”
“You suffer from the same psychological condition Hebb did back in 1951:”
“Oh, how hypocritical and contradictory you are.”
“...and how you deflect from having to backup your claims by employing presumptuous thinking, generalizations, exaggerations, lies, excuses, irrelevant issues, and faulty logic.”
“See? You are just like ProfWag: ignorant and presumptuous.”
“What blatant ignorance and lack of intelligence that shows on your part. You guys use so many different and obvious ways to deflect your shortcomings that it's a wonder why you guys continue to embarrass yourselves as often as you do.”
“I'd suggest you read up on the rules of deductive logic.”
“Let me dumb it down a bit... you are essentially saying this:”
“I'll dumb it down a bit and give you a very simple example to explain what the problem is:”
“Let me, again, dumb it down a bit:”
“Your logic is just so fundamentally flawed that I'm baffled as to how and why you just don't see it. I blame your emotions.”
There are more, but I think we get the idea.
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Re: Another example of a fraudulent "psychic"

Postby ProfWag » 30 Sep 2009, 00:28

quantumparanormal wrote: ProfWag et al will, however, take that to mean "no one" can demonstrate psi abilities. :roll:

If you add the word "probably" before your words "no one," then I agree with that point.
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Re: Another example of a fraudulent "psychic"

Postby NinjaPuppy » 30 Sep 2009, 00:36

ProfWag wrote:I should probably clarify that the "money" statement was referring to any one of over two dozen organizations that offer money for proof of the paranormal. Perhaps they do feel they would be ridiculed, which is a shame really. There are lesser known organizations than the JREF, however, that offer money for proof of the paranormal and would be far less public with their experiments.


I will venture to guess that obtaining that proof for that possible $$$ would take time. In some cases, travel and personal expenses to get to the organizations in question. Not many people can drop their day jobs in the quest to 'find out' if an organization wants to give them their seal of approval.
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Re: Another example of a fraudulent "psychic"

Postby ProfWag » 30 Sep 2009, 02:04

NinjaPuppy wrote:
ProfWag wrote:I should probably clarify that the "money" statement was referring to any one of over two dozen organizations that offer money for proof of the paranormal. Perhaps they do feel they would be ridiculed, which is a shame really. There are lesser known organizations than the JREF, however, that offer money for proof of the paranormal and would be far less public with their experiments.


I will venture to guess that obtaining that proof for that possible $$$ would take time. In some cases, travel and personal expenses to get to the organizations in question. Not many people can drop their day jobs in the quest to 'find out' if an organization wants to give them their seal of approval.

Yes, the travel and personal expenses would be correct in most cases (with the exception of those who are near one of the 26 locations who offer prize money.). Though I don't believe it necessary for someone to have to drop their day job if they had psychic abilities as I would venture a guess and say that many of those already are in the psychic line of work. Additionally, there are many colleges and universities around the country and people don't have to drive far to find a psychology department at a local community college who would be willing to perform an initial test on someone.
Although my field is not psychology, if anyone in Central Arkansas reading this believes they have paranormal abilities, shoot me a PM and see if we can get together for a test. Although I don't have a million dollars at my disposal, a preliminary successful attempt could garner you a Big Mac Supersized meal out of the deal. I would then send the outline of the successful test to the North Texas Skeptics or the Fayetteville Freethinkers who would take it from there and offer more than lunch at a drive thru.
I understand that some people out there may believe in paranormal abilities, but that they are "largely unpredictable," but as I've stated, my interest lies in people who claim they can do paranormal things on a regular basis (especially those who receive money for any kind of "psychic services.") I didn't do well in Statistics 201.
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Re: Another example of a fraudulent "psychic"

Postby ciscop » 30 Sep 2009, 03:07

ProfWag wrote:... probably several copies to include the audio version, one for next to your toilet, and several abridged versions to pass out to strangers on the street ...

:lol: :lol: i actually thought that was a funny quote since i have always imagined quantum as a jehova´s witness going door to door to spread the gospel of radin :lol: :lol:
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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