Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ talk about Uri Geller's powers

[Indigo Child]

Progwag and Really,

Watch these scientifically controlled experiments by SRI:

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1225

It is clear the controls were rigorous, and Uri Geller succeeded to
demonstrate his abilities under these conditions.Most of the experiments
done on him were double blind and involved meticulous data collection methods
and sophisticated analysis.

Why would Geller want to submit himself to the tests of some amateuer, atheist and hate
organization like JREF, when he is already succeeded at the tests of professional scientists at one of
the most prestigious scientific institutes in the world. Randi has no credentials, sorry.

[ProfWag]

[Indigo Child]

I am going to return you your F grade for your ridiculous counter explanation for the hidden
object experiments. You said any magician would be able to detect the micro movement of the steel
ball when the experimenter picked one out? That kind of magical hypersensitivity you claim magicians have
is a claim in it own right? Do you have proof of the magicans who have done this? Are you making it up? I watched
the video again, and at no single instance, did the experimenter disturb the other cans when eliminating
a can Geller told him to. Geller is barely even looking at the cans when the experimenter removes it.

Moreover, the hidden object experiment was also done with water in the can, and a permenant magnet.
Geller still succeeded.

Stop spouting nonsense about the controls not being sufficient. This was a double blind experiment, the object
was hidden and then randomized by a randomizer. None of the experiments knew where the ball was. They attempted
the experiments with various different target objects.

Finally, I find it interesting how you have failed to explain the other experiments. In the hidden drawing experiment,
15 different drawing were placed inside a safe in a double sealed opaque envelope of which none of the researchers
knew the code, and required signatures from both researchers to get it opened. Geller got everysingle one right
(his off target one, was very similar as well). Some of these were double blind.

In the double blind die experiment, a die inside a metal box die, both provided by SRI is shaken inside, nobody
knowing which face the dice is showing. Geller gets it right 8/8 for a probability score of 1 in a million. It cannot
get anymore controlled than this.

In the first PK experiment with the electric scales and 1g weight. The controls applied were covering the scales with
an alumnium can, then covering that with a glass cylinder to eliminate air currents. Then artefacts readings were taken
of various stimuli such tapping the glass cylinder, tapping the table, kicking the table, jumping up and down, a day long recording
with bringing in static eletricity dishcharge and with magnets. The results show that Geller produces completely different artefacts
and was able to increase and decrease the weight on the scales. He did not at any point touch the jar.

In the second PK experiment with the magnometer, Geller was able to produce a magnetic field comparable to that of the Earth's
magnetic field.

In the unconfirmed PK experiments of spoon and ring bending, the controls applied were mirros above and below his hands and
filming from every angle. The ring was manufactured at SRI and was measured to require 150lb force to bend it.

The controls were very rigorous and professional, in front of which Randi's experiments are amateuer.

[really?]

[ProfWag]

[Indigo Child]

Prowag,

The controls were not set up by URI, but by professional scientists at SRI.

You statements that the controls should have been set up by a magician is actually
funny. Since, when are magicians qualified research scientists and required to be
present in every experiment a scientist conducts?

You are making magicians sound like all-powerful tricksters who can deceive even
under scientific conditions. What rubbish. Magicians require props, stooges, misdirection,
prepared objects, stages and curtains to hide things. There is not a single magic trick you could
show me that I could not explain.

There is no magic show here. Geller has no props, stooges, prepared objects, curtains to
hide things or any fancy routine to misdirect people. He is a test subject, submitting to the
test procedures of professional scientists, and has brought nothing but himself along.

You have failed to explain how Geller could have achieved his results through any kind of trickey.
Rather than you picking an experiment to dissect, I will pick one for you to dissect. The double
blind die experiment. The die is inside the metal box, it is shaken in front of everybody, nobody
in the room knows what face is showing up in the box. Geller is able to tell the number 8/8 times.



You could have filled that room with magicians from all the world, even the amazing Randi himself, and
nobody would have been able to know what the number on the die was.

[really?]

[ProfWag]

[Indigo Child]

I am going to remind both of you Prowag and really where you are:
SCEPCOP forum. This forum disapproves of pseudoskepticism, which
is what you are folks are indulging in here, and other places on this forum.

What we want here is intelligent and critical discussion on the paranormal,
not people to come here to preach anti-paranormal fundamentalist ideologies to us.
If you do not believe in the paranormal or even the possibility of the paranormal,
you should not be here. Period.

You are beginning with an assumption here that URI Gellers demonstration
of his ability is a "magic trick" And then try to look for trickey, and when you
don't find or any counter explanation, you beg the question by saying, "I am not
going to reveal the magic trick"

I am done debating with you guys, as you refuse to take on board any evidence,
anybodies point that support the paranormal and critically engage with them, but
rather you are here to preach your beliefs to us. You should not be at this forum.

[NinjaPuppy]

[ProfWag]

Look Indigo Child, proving the existance of ESP, TK, life-after-death, and a myriad of other paranormal claims could very well be the most important discovery in the history of mankind. By simply believing whatever somebody writes without seriously questioning its authenticity is totally irresponsible. If you want to call me a "pseudoskeptic" because I don't believe in the paranormal and that I ask for, and demand, unquestionable proof of its existance, then fine, call me whatever you wish. My stance will remain that by not demanding the tightest controls for extremely important experiments is uncalled for, wrong, illogical, and, as mentioned, irresponsible.
ProfWag

[ProfWag]

[NinjaPuppy]

[ProfWag]

[ProfWag]