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Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

Discussions about the James Randi Educational Foundation and its Million Dollar Challenge.

Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

Postby Frank Lee » 25 Aug 2009, 02:46



That thread is titled, "Have you suffered or are you suffering from depression?". If this is the thread that Brett is referring to (I don't know that it is) when he wrote, "i find that a LOT of his [James Randi's] supporters claim to be 'clinically depressed", it would be amusing that Brett would surmise that a lot Randi's supporters claim to be clinically depressed based upon it. First of all, we have no way of knowing if the responders in that thread are James Randi supporters. And secondly, who would you expect to be the preponderance of responders to a thread titled, "Have you suffered or are you suffering from depression?"? People who suffer from depression maybe?

There is no way to extrapolate that Randi's supporters suffer from clinical depression to a greater or lesser degree than the rest of the population based on a thread on the JREF forum. But believers in nonsense notoriously take superficial impressions and try to turn them into 'proof' of things they wish to be true. Nothing new here.

I don't suffer from clinical depression but it is depressing to me that there is so much ignorance and gullibility in this world.

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Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

Postby Azrael » 25 Aug 2009, 04:10

I didn't accuse Brett of making things up, I asked him twice for a link he didn't provide it,so I suggested in the form of a question was he making it up? Not an accusation just a question. But typical of "believers" (although nothing paranormal in the subject)to twist things.
I'm always very skeptical of any situation where someone's notability hinges on their connection to another notable person
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Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

Postby ciscop » 25 Aug 2009, 05:12

well brett, since you can be bother with providing proof of what you said
i guess this will go down
as another unfounded attack
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

Postby ProfWag » 25 Aug 2009, 05:27

Frank Lee wrote:


That thread is titled, "Have you suffered or are you suffering from depression?". If this is the thread that Brett is referring to (I don't know that it is) when he wrote, "i find that a LOT of his [James Randi's] supporters claim to be 'clinically depressed", it would be amusing that Brett would surmise that a lot Randi's supporters claim to be clinically depressed based upon it. First of all, we have no way of knowing if the responders in that thread are James Randi supporters. And secondly, who would you expect to be the preponderance of responders to a thread titled, "Have you suffered or are you suffering from depression?"? People who suffer from depression maybe?

There is no way to extrapolate that Randi's supporters suffer from clinical depression to a greater or lesser degree than the rest of the population based on a thread on the JREF forum. But believers in nonsense notoriously take superficial impressions and try to turn them into 'proof' of things they wish to be true. Nothing new here.

I don't suffer from clinical depression but it is depressing to me that there is so much ignorance and gullibility in this world.

Frank Lee

I'm with you Frank. I don't know if it is what he was referring too, but a simple search that was suggested to us yielded that thread. Again, doesn't say or even suggest anything out of the ordinary. Of course, that would take research and we already know how that goes in this website.
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Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

Postby Hellboy » 25 Aug 2009, 06:07

Azrael wrote:
But typical of "believers" (although nothing paranormal in the subject)to twist things.


Who you are calling a believer hey? If you are referring to me then on what evidence do you base your ill-informed and poorly researched opinion(s) on? Provide concise and accurate data to back up your assertions, or shut up making baseless claims!

Azrael wrote:
I didn't accuse Brett of making things up, I asked him twice for a link he didn't provide it,so I suggested in the form of a question was he making it up? Not an accusation just a question.


Oh really, who's backtracking now hey?

Azrael wrote:
So you admit you made it up? you made a serious claim,now prove it!
Brett did not admit to making it up, so why assert that he did? Putting a question mark at the end of your sentence only clouds the issue. If you put ' Did you make it up Brett?' then I would believe you asked a question. However what you wrote is more like an assertion or statement than a question. Unless you are accurate with you sentence structure and in what context your posts become very cloudy and ambiguous. Perhaps you prefer that way hey, your get out of jail free card so to speak?

Frank Lee wrote:
There is no way to extrapolate that Randi's supporters suffer from clinical depression to a greater or lesser degree than the rest of the population based on a thread on the JREF forum.


Has anyone suggested otherwise, if you could please point out to me the aforementioned without resorting to biased thinking I would be most grateful! :)
Azrael wrote:
But typical of "believers" (although nothing paranormal in the subject)to twist things.


Who you are calling a believer hey? If you are referring to me then on what evidence do you base your ill-informed and poorly researched opinion(s) on? Provide concise and accurate data to back up your assertions, or shut up making baseless claims!

Azrael wrote:
I didn't accuse Brett of making things up, I asked him twice for a link he didn't provide it,so I suggested in the form of a question was he making it up? Not an accusation just a question.


Oh really, who's backtracking now hey?

Azrael wrote:
So you admit you made it up? you made a serious claim,now prove it!
Brett did not admit to making it up, so why assert that he did? Putting a question mark at the end of your sentence only clouds the issue. If you put ' Did you make it up Brett?' then I would believe you asked a question. However what you wrote is more like an assertion or statement than a question. Unless you are accurate with you sentence structure and in what context your posts become very cloudy and ambiguous. Perhaps you prefer that way hey, your get out of jail free card so to speak?

Frank Lee wrote:
There is no way to extrapolate that Randi's supporters suffer from clinical depression to a greater or lesser degree than the rest of the population based on a thread on the JREF forum.


Has anyone suggested otherwise, if you could please point out to me the aforementioned without resorting to biased thinking I would be most grateful! :)
Azrael wrote:
But typical of "believers" (although nothing paranormal in the subject)to twist things.


Who you are calling a believer hey? If you are referring to me then on what evidence do you base your ill-informed and poorly researched opinion(s) on? Provide concise and accurate data to back up your assertions, or shut up making baseless claims!

Azrael wrote:
I didn't accuse Brett of making things up, I asked him twice for a link he didn't provide it,so I suggested in the form of a question was he making it up? Not an accusation just a question.


Oh really, who's backtracking now hey?

Azrael wrote:
So you admit you made it up? you made a serious claim,now prove it!
Brett did not admit to making it up, so why assert that he did? Putting a question mark at the end of your sentence only clouds the issue. If you put ' Did you make it up Brett?' then I would believe you asked a question. However what you wrote is more like an assertion or statement than a question. Unless you are accurate with you sentence structure and in what context your posts become very cloudy and ambiguous. Perhaps you prefer that way hey, your get out of jail free card so to speak?

Frank Lee wrote:
There is no way to extrapolate that Randi's supporters suffer from clinical depression to a greater or lesser degree than the rest of the population based on a thread on the JREF forum.


Has anyone suggested otherwise, if you could please point out to me the aforementioned without resorting to biased thinking I would be most grateful! :)
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Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

Postby Hellboy » 25 Aug 2009, 06:21

Csicop wrote:
well brett, since you can be bother with providing proof of what you said
i guess this will go down
as another unfounded attack


I guess your post will go down as another over- dramatic and reactionary response to someone elses opinion! ;)

Perhaps you like playng the drama queen hey? ;)
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Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

Postby ciscop » 25 Aug 2009, 07:10

Hellboy wrote:Csicop wrote:
well brett, since you can be bother with providing proof of what you said
i guess this will go down
as another unfounded attack


I guess your post will go down as another over- dramatic and reactionary response to someone elses opinion! ;)

Perhaps you like playng the drama queen hey? ;)


thats a new one
a believer calling me a drama queen
quite cool actually
hahahaha

well sometimes i forget that in sites likes this one
James Randi is the devil for being addicted to reality
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

Postby Azrael » 25 Aug 2009, 07:14

Hellboy get over it,I didn't ACCUSE, it was a question designed to provoke a reaction.Seems it succeded.
I'm always very skeptical of any situation where someone's notability hinges on their connection to another notable person
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Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

Postby Frank Lee » 25 Aug 2009, 07:38

Hellboy wrote:Azrael wrote:

Frank Lee wrote:
There is no way to extrapolate that Randi's supporters suffer from clinical depression to a greater or lesser degree than the rest of the population based on a thread on the JREF forum.


Has anyone suggested otherwise, if you could please point out to me the aforementioned without resorting to biased thinking I would be most grateful! :)


Brett wrote: "however - stumbling ( inadvertently ) onto the jref forum this morning i find that a LOT of his supporters claim to be "clinically depressed " ( 10 or more pages of this ) - this i found somewhat interesting - and will have to ponder the significance of this"

By pointing out that there is no way to extrapolate that Randi's supporters suffer from clinical depression to a greater or lesser degree than the rest of the population based on reading the JREF forum, I hoped to save him some time that he might waste pondering the significance of a dubious premise should he be inclined to do so.

But, taking your point, I'd amend that by saying that if he planned on pondering the significance of the notion that a lot of his [James Randi's] supporters claim to be "clinically depressed ", he might want to examine how he came to the conclusion that a lot of his [James Randi's] supporters claim to be "clinically depressed " before he wasted any time pondering the significance of that dubious premise.

Of course, it's his time.

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Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

Postby Hellboy » 25 Aug 2009, 14:33

Csicop wrote:
thats a new one
a believer calling me a drama queen


As I have already quite clearly stated to Azrael.

Hellboy wrote:
Who you are calling a believer hey? If you are referring to me then on what evidence do you base your ill-informed and poorly researched opinion(s) on? Provide concise and accurate data to back up your assertions, or shut up making baseless claims!


The same applies to you Prove it!

Azrael wrote:
Hellboy get over it,I didn't ACCUSE, it was a question designed to provoke a reaction.Seems it succeded.
Ah more ambiguity it seems, utter crap! You have got caught out and you havent got the guts to admit it. If you cannot take it on the chin then stop posting nonsense!

Csicop wrote:
well sometimes i forget that in sites likes this one
James Randi is the devil for being addicted to reality


I could not give two hoots about Randi etc, i'd say Randi is addicted to his own self importance! Btw if you do not like this site then piss off! ;) Usually I do not resort to swearing however in your case csicop it is the only thing you might understand!

Thank you Frank for clarifying your points.
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Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

Postby ciscop » 26 Aug 2009, 00:27

I could not give two hoots about Randi etc, i'd say Randi is addicted to his own self importance! Btw if you do not like this site then piss off! ;) Usually I do not resort to swearing however in your case csicop it is the only thing you might understand!



i guess the believer got mad
you took it so personal that now i know in which side you stand

calm down
we arent questioning your dummy beliefs whichever they are ... yet
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

Postby Hellboy » 26 Aug 2009, 00:54

csicop asserted:
i guess the believer got mad
you took it so personal that now i know in which side you stand

calm down
we arent questioning your dummy beliefs whichever they are ... yet


Evidence? Where is your evidence for your accusations of me being a believer hey? Where is the evidence of my stance on anything. Saying Randi is full of self importance is like saying most celeb's are full of it, nothing more nothing less.

I see you are still resorting to childish insults without any basis in reality, how old are you ten or something? That's why I get a little bit bored with you csicop, nothing personal just your boring and ill-informed posts.
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Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

Postby Azrael » 26 Aug 2009, 00:57

Hellboy wrote
Ah more ambiguity it seems, utter crap! You have got caught out and you havent got the guts to admit it. If you cannot take it on the chin then stop posting nonsense!


It was a snide comment,a rhetorical one too,stop getting your knickers in a twist about someone else's post.
I'm always very skeptical of any situation where someone's notability hinges on their connection to another notable person
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Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

Postby Hellboy » 26 Aug 2009, 05:21

Azrael wrote:
It was a snide comment,a rhetorical one too,


At last you admit that your accusations where based on no evidence whatsoever! Snide remarks are no way to formulate a good and logical debate. I strongly suggest you stick to reality and what people actually write, instead of snide remarks which have no real intrinsic value.

Azrael wrote:
stop getting your knickers in a twist about someone else's post


A curious turn of phrase, however when you stop posting crap which you cannot back up with evidence then I will leave you in peace. It does not matter whose post it was, your assertions were incorrect and abusive.

Azrael and csicop have still not provided any evidence for their respective assertions that I am some sort of 'dummy believer', (which csicop accused me of). Unless you can provide any evidence for the aforementioned I or anyone else for that matter, cannot take anything you write seriously.

Capiche? ;)
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Re: Would Randi take a Lie Detector Test?

Postby Azrael » 26 Aug 2009, 05:32

Hellboy wrote:Azrael wrote:
It was a snide comment,a rhetorical one too,


At last you admit that your accusations where based on no evidence whatsoever! Snide remarks are no way to formulate a good and logical debate. I strongly suggest you stick to reality and what people actually write, instead of snide remarks which have no real intrinsic value.

Azrael wrote:
stop getting your knickers in a twist about someone else's post


A curious turn of phrase, however when you stop posting crap which you cannot back up with evidence then I will leave you in peace. It does not matter whose post it was, your assertions were incorrect and abusive.

Azrael and csicop have still not provided any evidence for their respective assertions that I am some sort of 'dummy believer', (which csicop accused me of). Unless you can provide any evidence for the aforementioned I or anyone else for that matter, cannot take anything you write seriously.

Capiche? ;)

I never accused him ,how many more times? "So you admit you made it up?" A sarchastic question,yes,accusation no.
however when you stop posting crap which you cannot back up with evidence


This forum is full of such crap,when I make an actual statement of fact I will back it up with ecidence you can be assured. But as I explained I didnt so no need to.
Are you saying you aren't a "believer" ?
I'm always very skeptical of any situation where someone's notability hinges on their connection to another notable person
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