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Was Randi Wrong about Uri Geller?

Discussions about the James Randi Educational Foundation and its Million Dollar Challenge.

Re: Was Randi Wrong about Uri Geller?

Postby highflyertoo » 30 Jan 2010, 15:21

NinjaPuppy wrote:
highflyertoo wrote:I will not be assimulated

Is that a Star Trek reference?


Yep, the Borg want everyone to be assimilated........ Like the NWO mob.
Randi was no researcher of the paranormal even though he tried half heartedly.... Shows over.
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Re: Was Randi Wrong about Uri Geller?

Postby ciscop » 31 Jan 2010, 09:52

highflyertoo wrote:
NinjaPuppy wrote:
highflyertoo wrote:I will not be assimulated

Is that a Star Trek reference?


Yep, the Borg want everyone to be assimilated........ Like the NWO mob.


ok..

leave the jokes to the professionals

but still..
you are the greatest when you share your prophetic dreams
:lol:
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Was Randi Wrong about Uri Geller?

Postby Kevin Kane » 04 Feb 2010, 05:44

What does it take for a skeptic to be convinced that everything that Uri Geller has done in his life has been a trick, a fraud?

Not much. A half a second of video tape on an Israeli TV program of what appears to be fraud, appears to be a slip-up by Uri Geller is enough.

What about controlled experiments performed by credible scientists at prestigious science clinics? Not good enough for skeptics, but TV entertainment shows are?

Before skeptics lecture anyone about "confirmation bias", just remember:

Uri Geller has never been scientifically debunked.
Uri Geller has never been credibly debunked in public performances.
Uri Geller has only been debunked in the minds and imaginations of skeptic believers.
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Re: Was Randi Wrong about Uri Geller?

Postby ProfWag » 04 Feb 2010, 05:51

Kevin Kane wrote:
Uri Geller has never been scientifically debunked.
Yes he has
Kevin Kane wrote:Uri Geller has never been credibly debunked in public performances.
Yes he has (several times in fact)
Kevin Kane wrote:Uri Geller has only been debunked in the minds and imaginations of skeptic believers.
This is an emotional statement as you could not begin to prove or disprove this, but I can add that he has been debunked in the mind of my wife who is nowhere near a skeptic, I can assure you.
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Re: Was Randi Wrong about Uri Geller?

Postby ProfWag » 04 Feb 2010, 05:57

Just curious Kevin, why do you seem to "worship," for lack of a better word, this person? Is he the best mentalist a non-skeptics can throw out for us to review?
Why don't you discuss Kreskin? Edward? Cayce? Dionne Warwick?
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Re: Was Randi Wrong about Uri Geller?

Postby ciscop » 04 Feb 2010, 06:26

ProfWag wrote:Just curious Kevin, why do you seem to "worship," for lack of a better word, this person? Is he the best mentalist a non-skeptics can throw out for us to review?
Why don't you discuss Kreskin? Edward? Cayce? Dionne Warwick?


mmm.. kreskin is walking a narrow line
not sure if he has ever used the term psychic
althought i do remember him saying he predicted the 9.11 on one of his books

cayce is way more interesting that uri
i used to be a big believer in cayce *back in the day
until i found out he predicted Atlantis raising up from the seas on the 1990s..

and warwick.. not sure who she is
sounds like a singer
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Was Randi Wrong about Uri Geller?

Postby ProfWag » 04 Feb 2010, 06:30

ciscop wrote:
ProfWag wrote:Just curious Kevin, why do you seem to "worship," for lack of a better word, this person? Is he the best mentalist a non-skeptics can throw out for us to review?
Why don't you discuss Kreskin? Edward? Cayce? Dionne Warwick?


mmm.. kreskin is walking a narrow line
not sure if he has ever used the term psychic
althought i do remember him saying he predicted the 9.11 on one of his books

cayce is way more interesting that uri
i used to be a big believer in cayce *back in the day
until i found out he predicted Atlantis raising up from the seas on the 1990s..

and warwick.. not sure who she is
sounds like a singer

She is a singer, but she was the spokesperson for the Psychic Friends Network thoughout the 90's. I added her as a little joke.
I'm pretty sure Kreskin used to say he was psychic back in he day, or at least he would say he wasn't. He changed his tune through the years though.
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Re: Was Randi Wrong about Uri Geller?

Postby ciscop » 04 Feb 2010, 07:45

not sure how i feel about kreskin
i read his books

in some books he even teaches real strong feats of mental magic
making it seem like he does accept ¨is all a trick¨
then.. he ruins it by puting up a picture of him on the same book that says ¨Here is me, reading from somebody´s mind a 8number serial number.. to this day i dont know how i did it¨
what the hell?


:?

didnt know that about Warwick..
how about

Shirley Ghostman??
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Was Randi Wrong about Uri Geller?

Postby ProfWag » 04 Feb 2010, 07:58

ciscop wrote:not sure how i feel about kreskin
i read his books

in some books he even teaches real strong feats of mental magic
making it seem like he does accept ¨is all a trick¨
then.. he ruins it by puting up a picture of him on the same book that says ¨Here is me, reading from somebody´s mind a 8number serial number.. to this day i dont know how i did it¨
what the hell?


:?

didnt know that about Warwick..
how about

Shirley Ghostman??

Shirley could be another one. I just don't know what the fascination with Uri is. I mean, he's a good entertainer I suppose, but he's shown over and over that he has not more psychic abilities that you or me.
I went to see Kreskin around 1980 and he brought me up on state to hypnotise me. I was actually pretty cool, but his show definitely centered around him having abilities. I just looked him up on that all-powerful wikipedia and it says he hates to be labled as a psychic so perhaps my memory was only as thinking he could be real rather than him saying he was.
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Re: Was Randi Wrong about Uri Geller?

Postby Kevin Kane » 04 Feb 2010, 08:10

James Randi and other skeptics have chosen a Sisyphean task in debunking Uri Geller.

Does every performance of Uri Geller have to be proven as a stage trick for Uri to be fully debunked?

No, but a statistically significant (> 50%) amount would be required for it be scientifically sound. For a reasonable debunking, it would require a reasonable amount of debunking. To my mind, Uri is far .. far .. far from being reasonably debunked.

Plus, a methodology for debunking Uri .. every time.

Plus a method of exact or near exact replication of Uri's tricks.



Skeptics should have simply enjoyed the entertainment Uri provided instead of attempting to debunk him.
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Re: Was Randi Wrong about Uri Geller?

Postby ciscop » 04 Feb 2010, 08:17

Kevin Kane wrote:James Randi and other skeptics have chosen a Sisyphean task in debunking Uri Geller.

Does every performance of Uri Geller have to be proven as a stage trick for Uri to be fully debunked?

No, but a statistically significant (> 50%) amount would be required for it be scientifically sound. For a reasonable debunking, it would require a reasonable amount of debunking. To my mind, Uri is far .. far .. far from being reasonably debunked.

Plus, a methodology for debunking Uri .. every time.

Plus a method of exact or near exact replication of Uri's tricks.



Skeptics should have simply enjoyed the entertainment Uri provided instead of attempting to debunk him.


i enjoyed the entertainment that uri provided
until he started branching out
selling his ¨psychic crystals charged with uri geller´s energy¨, selling his ¨psychic¨ powers to locate oil¨, selling his ¨psychic kits¨..
that guy became a scammer
that´s no longer entertainment

and uri´s methods has long been all debunked and are all familiar to those of us into the magical arts.
i do read about uri and repeat some of his feats (some of them even cleaner than him)
althought for me, he will forever be the world best metal bender, his ability to misdirect people is just great.

at the end of the day
he became a charlatan, which is sad
and that´s when it stops being funny
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Was Randi Wrong about Uri Geller?

Postby Kevin Kane » 04 Feb 2010, 08:29

Magic performers see the world as some sort of manual trick. Everything they don't understand must be a trick. Everything they do understand is a trick.

Thankfully Stephen Hawking can't perform magic tricks.
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Re: Was Randi Wrong about Uri Geller?

Postby Kevin Kane » 04 Feb 2010, 09:16

ProfWag wrote:
Kevin Kane wrote:
Uri Geller has never been scientifically debunked.
Yes he has
Kevin Kane wrote:Uri Geller has never been credibly debunked in public performances.
Yes he has (several times in fact)
Kevin Kane wrote:Uri Geller has only been debunked in the minds and imaginations of skeptic believers.
This is an emotional statement as you could not begin to prove or disprove this, but I can add that he has been debunked in the mind of my wife who is nowhere near a skeptic, I can assure you.


Can skeptics prove that Uri Geller has never demonstrated "psychic powers" ever in his life?

No.

Can skeptics prove everything Uri has ever done, has been done with manual skills, techniques and materials?

No.

So skeptics can't prove it statistically, can't prove it materially or demonstrably, can't prove it perceptibly .. how can they claim Uri is debunked?


Uri is imperceptibly debunked.

It's magic.

It's skeptic magic.

The illusion of debunking.
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Re: Was Randi Wrong about Uri Geller?

Postby ProfWag » 04 Feb 2010, 09:32

You're asking if we can prove the impossible. That is not using critical thinking Kevin.
All I can do is remind people that Uri accepted a magicians award and the 2008 International Magic Convention. During his question/answer session, he expressed "regret" for labeling himself as a psychic during his youth and now prefers the term "mystifier."

Of course I cannot prove those things you mentioned up there, but here's the kicker Kevin. I am stating emphatically that I am not psychic. However, I cannot prove that I have never used psychic abilities. Hopefully, looking at it that way, you can see why I believe that your statements are off the mark.
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Re: Was Randi Wrong about Uri Geller?

Postby highflyertoo » 04 Feb 2010, 10:13

ProfWag wrote:You're asking if we can prove the impossible. That is not using critical thinking Kevin.
All I can do is remind people that Uri accepted a magicians award and the 2008 International Magic Convention. During his question/answer session, he expressed "regret" for labeling himself as a psychic during his youth and now prefers the term "mystifier."

Of course I cannot prove those things you mentioned up there, but here's the kicker Kevin. I am stating emphatically that I am not psychic. However, I cannot prove that I have never used psychic abilities. Hopefully, looking at it that way, you can see why I believe that your statements are off the mark.


Yes you are debunked ProfWag.

Every event is a seperate event... So Uri being caught out on one event can't speak for all of the events... Seperate events require seperate scientific obsevations

This is the intial problem I struck with Skeptics/Sceptics in my early days of trying to explain ''paranormal experiences''. The Skeptics tried to convince me that if I mistakenly seen a SHADOW for an ENTITY then all my oberservations of ''Dark Light Images'' must be a trick of the eye.

The JREF Skeptics as the Skeptics here are switched on to Auto Pilot Mockery...... Skeptic=Laugh in your face bigtime.
Randi was no researcher of the paranormal even though he tried half heartedly.... Shows over.
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