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OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Discussions about Holistic Health and Alternative Medicine.

Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby ciscop » 22 Jan 2010, 00:23

Kevin Kane wrote:Let me say this as plainly as possible:

Skeptics are liars.
Skeptics are dishonest.
Skeptics are idiots.
Skeptics are false alarmists.
Skeptics are pharm shills.
Skeptics are not credible.
Skeptics are not reputable.

IMHE


hahahahaahahaha ok
if i dont believe in magic like you do that makes me an idiot? just because i am asking for data?
are you for real??.. are you drooling over you keyboard while you are typing? you gotta be super retarded.

so you have never been to a hospital? you have never used western medicine?
i bet you do, you hipocrite.
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby NinjaPuppy » 22 Jan 2010, 00:44

Kevin Kane wrote:Let me say this as plainly as possible:

Skeptics are liars.
Skeptics are dishonest.
Skeptics are idiots.
Skeptics are false alarmists.
Skeptics are pharm shills.
Skeptics are not credible.
Skeptics are not reputable.

IMHE


May I just say that you can replace the word 'skeptic' with 'people' but you really need to put the word, "some" in front of that.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby NinjaPuppy » 22 Jan 2010, 01:06

Oh what the hell there Kevin, why don't you tell us what is really on your mind? Get it all out and vent.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby Kevin Kane » 22 Jan 2010, 05:47

I went over to "quackwatch" this morning and saw that tissue salts are a homeopathic treatment. Tissue salts? Hey, we use them .. excellent product. But some skeptic is going to tell me they don't work? Fat chance.

So I guess the logic is: skeptics feel they can lie about things they've never tried, because not many people have actually heard about or tried these things. Is that how skepticism works?
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby NinjaPuppy » 22 Jan 2010, 05:50

Kevin Kane wrote:So I guess the logic is: skeptics feel they can lie about things they've never tried, because not many people have actually heard about or tried these things. Is that how skepticism works?

I don't really know exactly how skepticism works but I know how it is supposed to work according to definition. I also don't know about the lie part either but yup... skeptics don't have to try something to know they do or don't work. I don't understand that either.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby ProfWag » 22 Jan 2010, 05:58

Kevin Kane wrote:I went over to "quackwatch" this morning and saw that tissue salts are a homeopathic treatment. Tissue salts? Hey, we use them .. excellent product. But some skeptic is going to tell me they don't work? Fat chance.

So I guess the logic is: skeptics feel they can lie about things they've never tried, because not many people have actually heard about or tried these things. Is that how skepticism works?

I don't believe I said that tissue salts don't work Kevin. If I did, please show me. Also, if I lied about something, please show me.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby Kevin Kane » 22 Jan 2010, 06:11

ciscop wrote:hahahahaahahaha ok
if i dont believe in magic like you do that makes me an idiot? just because i am asking for data?
are you for real??.. are you drooling over you keyboard while you are typing? you gotta be super retarded.

so you have never been to a hospital? you have never used western medicine?
i bet you do, you hipocrite.


Here's the thing. I haven't insulted any person directly. I have criticized or insulted skeptics as a group. So, CISCOP is in direct violation of the rules of this board.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby ProfWag » 22 Jan 2010, 06:20

I can't speak for other people, but thanks for clarifying that I personally haven't lied in this thread.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby NinjaPuppy » 22 Jan 2010, 07:02

Kevin Kane wrote:
ciscop wrote:hahahahaahahaha ok
if i dont believe in magic like you do that makes me an idiot? just because i am asking for data?
are you for real??.. are you drooling over you keyboard while you are typing? you gotta be super retarded.

So, CISCOP is in direct violation of the rules of this board.

Ciscop is always in violation of the rules of this board. It's part of his charm. For him English is a second language as well. Possibly a third or a fourth language.

Ciscop - STOP WITH THE NAME CALLING!!! Now be a good skeptic and follow the rules or you'll get a banning because I'm tired of having to warn you.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby tiger » 22 Jan 2010, 09:21

Does anyone have any double blind studies published in a good medical magazine that show that they work?

Otherwise I have some snake oil that can cure a cold in 7 days. Remember if you do not take your medicine for a cold it will take all week to get better.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby Kevin Kane » 22 Jan 2010, 18:54

I think the addage, "Don't Knock It Until You Try It" is applicable.

It appears the product "Head On" is an actual homeopathic product and meets the standards of homeopathy.

And according to paid, professional con-man James Randi (not an insult, a fact he appears to be proud of), "Head On is a total fake".

But according to many who have actually tried the product, Head On works exactly as advertised. It works as well as Tylenol, according to some reviewers.

4 logical results are possible:

A. Head On doesn't work because homeopathy doesn't work
B. Head On doesn't work because placebo doesn't work
C. Head On works because placebo works
D. Head On works because homeopathy works

But the problem is bigger, because it raises other questions:

A. Tylenol doesn't work because toxic chemicals don't work
B. Tylenol doesn't work because placebo doesn't work
C. Tylenol works because placebo works
D. Tylenol works because toxic chemicals work

It should be noted that no one has actually proven that placebo works or exists. Attempts to measure the placebo effect indicate:

A. Placebo is a real effect
B. Placebo is not a real effect
C. Placebo may be a real effect .. or maybe not .. that may sometimes works .. or maybe not.
D. Placebos and their effects are scientific magic invented in a magical laboratory by a doctor of magicality.

And that leaves only one question to be determined; what does placebo taste like?

A. Placebo tastes pleasant
B. Placebo is tasteless
C. Placebo tastes like Jesus farts
D. Placebo tastes like James Randi .. only better


Where does that leave us? It leaves us with the fact that science-based medicine is investigating, using and testing the properties of fraud. And that science-based products are being sold that are subject to fraud and may be entirely fraudulent.

And that is a fact.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby NinjaPuppy » 22 Jan 2010, 21:07

tiger wrote:Otherwise I have some snake oil that can cure a cold in 7 days. Remember if you do not take your medicine for a cold it will take all week to get better.

I need some of that snake oil. I've had a cold since Jan. 9 that won't give up.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby ciscop » 23 Jan 2010, 00:24

NinjaPuppy wrote:
Kevin Kane wrote:
ciscop wrote:hahahahaahahaha ok
if i dont believe in magic like you do that makes me an idiot? just because i am asking for data?
are you for real??.. are you drooling over you keyboard while you are typing? you gotta be super retarded.

So, CISCOP is in direct violation of the rules of this board.

Ciscop is always in violation of the rules of this board. It's part of his charm. For him English is a second language as well. Possibly a third or a fourth language.

Ciscop - STOP WITH THE NAME CALLING!!! Now be a good skeptic and follow the rules or you'll get a banning because I'm tired of having to warn you.


all right
but kevin started with the name calling,
calling skeptics idiots

and yep.. i speak 4 languages.. english, spanish, french and portuguese
i also took some courses in italian and german.. but i am not fluent in those, i just think languages are a great way of exercising the brain,
something i am not sure kevin does.
(not an insult, just a fact, i honestly dont know if kevin likes to exercise his brain)
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby ProfWag » 23 Jan 2010, 00:38

Hmmmm, Truthfully, I’m a little surprised you would mention HeadOn, but here we go.
99.9% of this product is wax and water. What’s left (which ain’t much) contains potassium bichromate (aka potassium dichromate) and is extremely poisonous and deadly if swallowed.
Due to the absence of scientific study, the National Advertising Division of the Better Business Bureau requested the company refrain from claiming it relieved headaches. Additionally, Consumer Reports has concluded any positive benefits of HeadOn were probably the result of the placebo effect. As such, if you think it works, then it just might work. However, if you think eating bull testicles will cure your headache, they will work just as well.

Sources:
www.headon.com
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/p5719.htm
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby Kevin Kane » 23 Jan 2010, 00:57

ProfWag wrote:Hmmmm, Truthfully, I’m a little surprised you would mention HeadOn, but here we go.
99.9% of this product is wax and water. What’s left (which ain’t much) contains potassium bichromate (aka potassium dichromate) and is extremely poisonous and deadly if swallowed.
Due to the absence of scientific study, the National Advertising Division of the Better Business Bureau requested the company refrain from claiming it relieved headaches. Additionally, Consumer Reports has concluded any positive benefits of HeadOn were probably the result of the placebo effect. As such, if you think it works, then it just might work. However, if you think eating bull testicles will cure your headache, they will work just as well.

Sources:
http://www.headon.com
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/p5719.htm


Potassium bichromate probably raises some homeopathic concerns, but as you noted, it's extremely dilute.

Tylenol is derived from coal tar. The early chemists loved coal tar. They made hundreds of compounds from this thick black industrial sludge. Ibuprofin (Advil, Motrin, etc) is derived from crude oil. Rat poison is also made from these sources.

Toxins produce their medical effects by inhibiting specific enzymes to change their balance, or by killing pathogens. In some cases they are used to stimulate or antagonize actions. Pharmacology is basically the use of poisons; pollution or other foreign substances, to inhibit or antagonize the body into "health".
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