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OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby Nostradamus » 04 Mar 2010, 20:40

The fact is that homeopathy has not been shown to be effective. No mechanism has ever been shown to work. It can't be differentiated from the placebo effect.

It's actually a smart system.

Why? Because intelligent people realize its a sham?

The placebo effect is active in every type of medicine.

Any proof of that or is this conjecture?

If we take an inert drug, it works much better than not taking any.

This is actually not true. You tossed in some other fluff before this and thought people might be silly enough to think this also followed, but very, very wrong.

If it looks pretty, tastes sweet, or smells strange .. we tell ourselves: it's probably powerful.

Got any proof of this. I asked a few people and they thought it indicated ineffective.

If it makes us sleepy or high .. it must be working.
If it makes us nauseous or tingley .. it must be a strong drug.
If we take more of the drug .. it must work stronger.

This must be more of your conjecture.

If we take more than one drug .. it must be more effective.

So if we drink 2 glasses of water, i.e. homeopathic medicine, its more effective?

If we believe the drug doesn't work .. it doesn't, or is much less effective.

This violates your inert claim.

So now we seen a list of unsupported fluff being posted. How about providing support for homeopathy? You know that stuff about science and efficacy?
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby Kevin Kane » 04 Mar 2010, 21:00

I'm not your research assistant. You're old enough to educate yourself. If you want to dispute everything I've said .. I can do exactly the same back. I stand by all my statements and challenge all of yours.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby Nostradamus » 04 Mar 2010, 21:05

The NHS funding of homeopathy is tiny compared to the £11 Billion it spends on pharmaceuticals. The question is raised, why should pharmacueticals be funded when they are mostly placebo?

Here's an admission from the exectutive VP of GlaxoSmithKline:


This is a ridiculous misrepresentation of what he said. I know you have a reading and comprehension problem so I'll help you out. A well known issue with drugs is that many more drugs could be made available to the market if we knew who could safely use them. The difference between individuals is large. Some drugs have toxic to some people. Why deprive those that can be helped if a few are injured? Why deprive others of a drug because some people are not helped? Target drugs to the great range of people that live in the world today.

Think back. One of the considerations in the genome project was to better understand individuals so that drugs could be better matched to those that needed them.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby Nostradamus » 04 Mar 2010, 21:07

I'm not your research assistant. You're old enough to educate yourself. If you want to dispute everything I've said .. I can do exactly the same back. I stand by all my statements and challenge all of yours.

That's exactly what I thought. You have no idea what you are saying. It is all unsupported nonsense.

I have pointed out that in the GSK claim you completely misrepresented the person you quoted to further some incompetent agenda.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby Kevin Kane » 04 Mar 2010, 21:38

Dude, you're a comedy riot.


Here's a funny little fact about science research into homeopathy.

Homeopathy has worked on many patients.

Scientists claim that this is entirely due to the placebo effect.

They base this claim entirely on clinical trials, which have been limited and mixed.

So they never actually study the patients?

Nope.

Not studying stuff = not science.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby Nostradamus » 04 Mar 2010, 21:43

So you use the word fact. Well that's ridiculous.

Here's a little scoop: homeopathy does not work. It does not work. End of story.

So they never actually study the patients? Nope.


Wow. Another lie! That's par for the course. And no surprise I might add.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby Kevin Kane » 04 Mar 2010, 21:47

Nostradamus is wrong.

Ignore Nostradamus.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby Nostradamus » 04 Mar 2010, 21:56

Thanks for admitting you are clueless about all of this.

Post a lie and I'll mark it as such.

There are some pretty sharp people here Kevin. It doesn't take them long to figure out when someone posts garbage. If you don't understand a subject then ask. I just read a post not 2 minutes ago by NinjaPuppy where she made me realize a new point of view on a subject. That's why I read and post here. I learned something. It won't hurt you to learn something.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby Kevin Kane » 04 Mar 2010, 22:36

I'm sure you realize -almost- every single rebuttal of yours is not a legitimate rebutal, not backed up by facts, sources, or even half-way decent argumentation. I am not going to respond to some clown who simply says .. that's wrong ..that's wrong .. that's wrong .. who says so?.. who says so? .. who says so? .. You lie .. You lie .. you lie! Nostradamus = Joe Wilson.

That shit gets old fast. Get some new tricks if you want me to read your pointless posts.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby Nostradamus » 04 Mar 2010, 22:52

It is you that has posted a series of pointless posts with absolutely no supporting evidence. In addition, you posted clear misrepresentation. In other threads you have lied about what I said.

And it took almost no time at all for you to swear. Grow up. Be a big boy. Read and comprehend. I'm sure you can do it.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby ProfWag » 04 Mar 2010, 22:57

Since you mentioned swearing, I'd like to add that I have used cuss words quite often for the majority of my life and profanity does not offend me--especially when I'm using a hammer. However, during the course of a professional debate, my perception of one using profanity really only shows the lack of confidence they have in their comments. I would use the word "maturity," but without knowing the person personally, that may or may not be correct.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby Nostradamus » 04 Mar 2010, 23:13

Here's a typical misrepresentation from Kevin:
Charles Darwin dramatically proves the effects of very dilute solutions


just because it was Darwin does make it correct. Darwin's interest in gemmules goes bolster the notion that gemmules is correct or incorrect.

The existence of materials that can be in very dilute quantities that can be detected by organisms or affect organisms is well known to standard science. Hormones are an example of a material that works in parts per billion or parts per trillion.

Ricin is a poison known to be toxic in the range of parts per million. That's lethal. Lower dosages sicken, i.e. effect organisms.

As the linked to article pointed out Darwin realized that dogs could detect the scent of an animal in concentrations far below what he used on the plant. Detection does not suggest anything other than detection.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby ProfWag » 04 Mar 2010, 23:15

Nostradamus wrote:Here's a typical misrepresentation from Kevin:
Charles Darwin dramatically proves the effects of very dilute solutions


just because it was Darwin does make it correct. Darwin's interest in gemmules goes bolster the notion that gemmules is correct or incorrect.

The existence of materials that can be in very dilute quantities that can be detected by organisms or affect organisms is well known to standard science. Hormones are an example of a material that works in parts per billion or parts per trillion.

Ricin is a poison known to be toxic in the range of parts per million. That's lethal. Lower dosages sicken, i.e. effect organisms.

As the linked to article pointed out Darwin realized that dogs could detect the scent of an animal in concentrations far below what he used on the plant. Detection does not suggest anything other than detection.

I heard a quote recently and for the life of me, can't remember who said it so I apologize to the author. But, concerning homeopathic medicine and the placebo, "feeling better does not mean one IS better."
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby Kevin Kane » 05 Mar 2010, 03:34

Nostradamus wrote:

Here's an admission from the exectutive VP of GlaxoSmithKline:


This is a ridiculous misrepresentation of what he said. I know you have a reading and comprehension problem so I'll help you out.


Quoting the publicly spoken, written speech of a top GSK executive is a ridiculous misrepresentation? ... full of it.

Nostradamus wrote:A well known issue with drugs is that many more drugs could be made available to the market if we knew who could safely use them. The difference between individuals is large. Some drugs have toxic to some people. Why deprive those that can be helped if a few are injured? Why deprive others of a drug because some people are not helped? Target drugs to the great range of people that live in the world today.

Think back. One of the considerations in the genome project was to better understand individuals so that drugs could be better matched to those that needed them.


Yes, that was the point of his speech. To make pharmacology more selective and tailored to the individual. A move not supported by the industry. He went out on a limb and fell off. His peers don't endorse his message, his revelation of dirty secrets, and it's implications.
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Re: OMG .. the Homeopaths are Coming!!!

Postby Kevin Kane » 05 Mar 2010, 03:38

Nostradamus wrote:
As the linked to article pointed out Darwin realized that dogs could detect the scent of an animal in concentrations far below what he used on the plant. Detection does not suggest anything other than detection.


It was more than detection. It was detection and response. Cellular communication .. without a nervous system, acting in concert to defend the plant .. at homeopathic levels.
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