Discussions about Afterlife Research, Survival Science, Near Death Experiences, Out of Body Experiences, Spirit Communication, Mediumship, Ghosts, Spirits, etc.
Want to elaborate on Sound/Visions/OBE/NDE via my own experience of Lucid Dreaming.
After years of doing it I came by luck to ability of scripting my own dreams and connecting to my body senses. I too thought at the begining that I see divine world etc.
The problem I have is that I can create OBE, NDE by dreaming and realizing about it, I can too lower my body temperature if I dream of cold etc.
I do speak to my dream characters for real. If I get stuck I shout in my dream andy girfriends starts hearing my real body shouting and as we agreed she wakes me up.
I can create OBE, Astral Projection, Slow The Time Down in my sleep.
The thing is that all those things do happen in my brain not out of it.
I managed to contradict a scientist to the level of him saying he was wrong and I was right.
All mediumship or other unexplained happen in my brain.
As years passed I started to stop being shocked and analyzed all details of my OBE, NDE and AP and came to conclusion that it looks 100per cent real if you create the effect in the place you know. Otherwise your brain fills the gaps of unknown using logical memory.
I see machines while floating at hospital, it just they look different to the real ones when I wake up cos I know nothing about hospital equipment I just know that there should be some machines there.
I can give dozen other examples, I can basicalt talk to my mind or see myself dreaming as a spectactor. More my lucid dreams have more propability and correctness than all NDE' put together.
Why do I know it? Cos I am aware and can wake up at any point of it still knowing that it was just a very real looking dream.
My mind can role play too, just like in the movie.
Those tapes sound like my roles in my dreams if I go along with it.
I didn't come here to attack anyone, I am not perfectly sceptic it just I know based on my own experiment and experience that it is an illusion, no assumption here, stopped assuming quite few years back when I regained a full control of my conciousness at any state of sleep or trans.
What do you think - thanks
On the subject lucid dreaming, you brought up which looks out of place here, I prefer to keep to the topic in general,Life after Death. I did read one book on that subject, “Lucid Waking” by George Feuerstein, but that has been years now .
I see you brought up the subject Leslie flint at JREF,that is a very hostile environment for this subject, I've been a member there since the Dec09and have never chosen to bring up the subject of Leslie Flint knowing the hostilely and cynicism brought against one who tries to bring up Flint.
One will never get any headway on the discussion of that matter. One poster suggest that during the testing of Leslie flint they should have used an infrared camera to photograph the voice box. If he had done his research thoroughly at least by reading the book “Voices in the Dark” he would have found out that they used an infrared telescope ( found on pg. 168) to observe the voice box. These people who criticize the medium ship of this person without even doing any research on the person I have no time for discussion or debate.
Another argument is the communicator doesn’t sound like the person that he/she when alive. If you never heard of a recording of your voice would you know what it would sound like, when using ones own natural larynx? These communicators are using an artificial created one to speak through.
Flint was not an educated man,he quit his early years of school to work to support his grandmother. He was not good at giving speeches, from which one would gather from listening to lectures he gave, against listening to these recordings.
Now to branch off from this topic,but having ties to it,I'd like to bring up the subject of “the mind being separate from the brain”. I think you will find this YouTube video of Dr. Pim van Lommel,a renowned cardiologist,was so inspired by the stories his patients told of their near-death experiences that he became the first medical practitioner to risk his reputation with a full, systematic clinical trial into the phenomenon.
I studied those too.
He also offers his own empirical evidence.
Yes, I brought Flint up. Yes, I got stick for other posts too.
The problem I have with both forums is that:
JREF takes uneducated study just to bash a touchable evidence forgetting that Randi is only a stage magician who designes a test, he isn't a scientist, he only concludes lack of paranormal based on that test.
As a base of empirical conclusion you give phisical experiment without a conclusion connected to that experiment.
I merely stated that NDE', OBE, Astral Projection aren't paranormal, they are a body state often called paranormal by poeple who want them to be and have no knowledge of them.
This forum is more open minded about philosophy as JREF people often don't know basics of science, they just bash.
However both forums are quite close minded if it comes to the conclusion.
As an example one of biggest poles:
Randi designed a test, noone past it. However he denies scientifical facts which he has no knowledge to even understand.
Zammit claims to speak to dead poeple, he and the circle claim phiscal evidence yet he started anothe challenge. Rather than him proving existence of his phisical experiment he wants someone to prove that he doesn't have one.
Delusion and nonsense. How can you prove that something whoch doesn't exist on fact doesn't exist? Paradox and nonsense from the person claming to have proof.
Lucid Dreaming is a subject connected as it explained all experiments by Sam Parnia so far, it debunked OBE too with OBE experiment hitting 0 rate correct guesses, less that coincidemce rate.
If I see a telepathical experience with a high hit rate. Doesn't mean I am don't see it cos JREf says?
If I see a telepathical experience with a high hit rate. Doesn't meant that it is a 'high conciousness', reincarnation, telepathy etc becouse this forum says?
Both: sceptics and belivers seem to not want to knwo the actual answer, just connect some evidence to make the conclusion look or sceptical or beliving.
My own personal opinion.
Yes, but try telling a Christian that the only good Christian is a dead Christian..
Cynicism aside, in my observations, such convictions seldom reach below the surface of the per sona. The rat-brain, the gut, are oblivious to the non-referential fantasies and focused entirely on the reality of the threat to life.
I am at the opposite side. On the top of my mind, I think death is either termination, or it isn't. Termination would be nirvana, a free gift of eternal dreamless sleep. Non termination, whatever form it takes, means death is illusion. So death is either nothing, or is misperceived.
The difference is, I truly wish to get off this planet. Even so, I can't count the times I have been driving, longing for death, and suddenly found my life endangered on the road. What happens?
My chattering mind shuts off for a moment, and the bonobo acts in zen time. There is no monkey, there is no car. There is only the needed action without reflection. Then there is my chattering brain coming back on line with the default bullshit it always tells me "I wish I was dead!" The irony does not escape me. Twain tries to confront Shakespeare about it, but I am just chattering to myself.
One last note that supports your hypothesis, Prof. I knew two people, a Christian and an atheist, who where trapped on the side of a mountain in a three day blizzard. On the third day the Christian gave up and allowed himself to freeze, secure in the knowledge he would soon be abusing Baby Jesus. The atheist looked at the corpse, thought "At least the deluded fool died happy, and never found out he was wrong, but I know this life is all I have, and I am not giving up." He kept himself alive, just barely until rescue before the days end.
I, on the other hand, would have been grateful I had the chance to die by freezing, as opposed to dismemberment, disease, suffocation, fire, or drowning. Which brings up the last point. The idea of being dead doesn't bother me. Dieing, on the other hand, is seldom pleasant, dignified, or beautiful. It is also very impolite, as it always leaves a terrible mess you can't clean up yourself.
"What's so Funny about Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
I kept waiting for the punch line on the Christian and the Atheist story until I realized it wasn't a joke...
You're idea of dying appears so....final...
I sill think, however, that if one had no doubt about an afterlilfe--I mean zero doubt that the soul would continue--then dying would be someone wanted and cherised rather than trying to keep oneself alive regardless of the circumstance.
I love to taunt my Christian friends on that one in that the bible bluntly states that the Kingdom of God is only big enough to contain 144,000 souls. . . I'm willing to bet that don't include people like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and all the other troublemakers out there using "God" as their excuse to promote hate, violence and general acts of inhumanity.
I've heard a few theories as to how that number is a metaphor and not accurate but yet, those same folks swear that nothing in the bible is inaccurate or wrong... can't quite figure that one out. I guess it goes this way. . . if you are a non-Christian and point such things out, you are misinterpreting the scriptures because the "Holy Spirit" isn't within you to help you understand such things. On the other hand if you are a Christian, then you are given discernment which empowers you to see "the truth" as god intends. . . not even the Jews, God's chosen people, can properly understand the message of the Holy Canon because they rejected Jesus and condemned him to death. . . Then again, if you are a Mormon, 7th Day Adventist, Jahova Witness and any number of other Christ following cults, you don't know these things either just as no Lutheran or Methodist can understand such things because of their separation from the Roman seat. . . the list gets quite long and it seems everyone that calls themselves a Christian has this ability but only if they belong to the "right' christian group because all the others are obviously wrong and do not adhere to the tenets of the scriptures as they were written.
In a talk I gave at the Los Angeles Philosophic Research Society long ago, I pointed out that those of us that believe in Reincarnation and Karma have more reason to be Pro-Life than the Christians, simply because we believe that a karmic link exists between the soul-entities that share kinship with one another. Granted, the aborted fetus could have been the mother of the woman that gave it up in a previous incarnation, that mother (the fetus) in that long ago era aborting or otherwise murdering her child (the current era mother that's preggers and getting the abortion) . . . the one owes to the other so that balance can come into existence between the two. Conversely, the aborted fetus may have chosen just such a demise prior to conception, because that's all it needed was that short-term state of development, in order to bring it's own karma into balance. . . hell, there's a thousand and one paths we could take with this or any other scenario but the simplest point of view is that those of us that live a Metaphysically oriented life style have the strongest reason of all faiths, to oppose abortion and yet, we tend to be at the forefront when it comes to Pro-Choice. . . strange isn't it? Especially when you consider that early Christians viewed children under 13 years of age, as livestock and currency (especially the daughters, who were frequently used even into the 19th century, as a bargaining chip). . . . but then Christians are fickle things, rarely able to embrace anything more than one ideology at a time when it comes to what their bible supports or not. . . . . so much for living by the literal interpretation
The bottom line is, Christians FEAR their God because they want to be one of the lucky few allowed into that 144,000 elitist community rather than living outside the palace gates in the burbs. . . a.k.a. HELL.
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