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Poll: Should Skeptics be allowed in this forum?

Discuss PseudoSkeptics and their Fallacies. Share strategies for debating them.

Should Skeptics be allowed in this forum?

Yes
28
62%
Yes but only limit them to the Debating Skeptics board
10
22%
No, it would only bring negative energy and ultimately do no good, as they will not listen
7
16%
 
Total votes : 45

Re: Poll: Should Skeptics be allowed in this forum?

Postby caniswalensis » 02 Jun 2010, 05:51

I self-servingly voted "YES" to this poll, while maintaining my objectivity & intellectual integrity by mentally noting that I was doing it for purly selfish reasons. :ugeek:
"It is proper for you to doubt ... do not go upon report ... do not go upon tradition ... do not go upon hear-say." ~ Buddha
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Re: Poll: Should Skeptics be allowed in this forum?

Postby Scepcop » 09 Jun 2010, 16:50

Some new members here, such as this one viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1217 say they are glad to be here cause they assume that it's free of pseudoskeptics.

But obviously it's not.

So what should we do? Create boards that are free of skeptics? Or limit the skeptics to certain boards?

I'd hate to disappoint people that assume they will be posting here free of skeptics.

What do you think?

According to the poll in this thread, the yes's and no's are 14 to 13, about 50/50. So it's a tough call. It's hard to please everyone. The logical solution would to have certain boards for skeptics and certain boards free of skeptics. Wouldn't it?
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Re: Poll: Should Skeptics be allowed in this forum?

Postby NinjaPuppy » 09 Jun 2010, 20:00

Good question. We do have one area that requests no skeptic commentary but not many believers post there.
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Re: Poll: Should Skeptics be allowed in this forum?

Postby ProfWag » 09 Jun 2010, 20:50

What do you do about people who believe in psychics but not UFOs? How about those that believe in ghosts but not Astrology? Aren't there people out there who use their own experiences and thinking to come to their own conclusions about a wide variety of topics? If Scepcop posts an "irrefutable" story about Mothman, would people who believe in psychics, ghosts, and bigfoot be able to refute the post or do they just have to keep their mouth shut and let people post whatever the hell they want without fear of being called out on it? As most know, I'm a skeptic, but if I believe my Argentinian Gnome video is the real deal, could I post it there?
I'm not sure it would work, but hey, it's your forum.
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Re: Poll: Should Skeptics be allowed in this forum?

Postby Scepcop » 10 Jun 2010, 01:16

NinjaPuppy wrote:Good question. We do have one area that requests no skeptic commentary but not many believers post there.


That's because that rule was overturned and skeptics started posting there under the promise not to ridicule the poster too much...
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Re: Poll: Should Skeptics be allowed in this forum?

Postby Scepcop » 10 Jun 2010, 01:18

ProfWag wrote:What do you do about people who believe in psychics but not UFOs? How about those that believe in ghosts but not Astrology? Aren't there people out there who use their own experiences and thinking to come to their own conclusions about a wide variety of topics? If Scepcop posts an "irrefutable" story about Mothman, would people who believe in psychics, ghosts, and bigfoot be able to refute the post or do they just have to keep their mouth shut and let people post whatever the hell they want without fear of being called out on it? As most know, I'm a skeptic, but if I believe my Argentinian Gnome video is the real deal, could I post it there?
I'm not sure it would work, but hey, it's your forum.


You are overcomplicating things and muddying the waters. Even if someone believed in ghosts but not in astrology, they would respect each other far more than skeptics would. That isn't the point.
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Re: Poll: Should Skeptics be allowed in this forum?

Postby Indigo Child » 16 Jun 2010, 23:00

I think the best thing to do, in light of my recent discussion with
the skeptics on this forum(Nostradamus, Prowag, Really) is to turn this
forum into a skeptic free zone and create one separate forum where skeptics
are allowed and give them unrestricted freedom there, so everybody can see the
kind of mentality they have.

We should make this forum a place where paranormalists can come here to discuss
issues and critically evaluate pseudoskeptical propoganda. In order to be able to do
that the environment needs to be conducive for that. At the moment, we have a very
bad case of pseudoskeptics infecting this forum, who openly insult paranormalists,
refuse to critically engage with any points they make or evidence they provide, and
make their ideologies and beliefs clear. I have tried reasoning with them, but the
effort is futile. They are fundamentalists, impervious to reason. Moreover, I have seen
them and their friends posting at the JREF forum, gloating about how they are giving
us a hard time here.

I can see that the initial intention of allowing skeptics was noble. It is only fair to let
the other side speak as well, however when the other side are a bunch of fundamentalists,
then there is no hope for any dialogue to take place.

I think critical thinkers in the paranormal should have a platform on the internet and I believe
SCEPCOP can provide that, but before this happens, we do need to take out the trash that has
infilitrated this forum, and drove away the people we actually need on this forum.
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Re: Poll: Should Skeptics be allowed in this forum?

Postby NinjaPuppy » 16 Jun 2010, 23:50

Moreover, I have seen them and their friends posting at the JREF forum, gloating about how they are giving
us a hard time here.

I would love to see a link to this please. It would 'make my day'.
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Re: Poll: Should Skeptics be allowed in this forum?

Postby caniswalensis » 17 Jun 2010, 00:41

Hi All,

I am a skeptic, and here is my view on this question.

I agree whole-heartedly with friend Indigo that there is a big problem with behavior on this forum right now. Name calling, flaming, & open hostility are all rampant here now.

I think that membership in this forum should be contingent on behavior, not on viewpoints. This forum is essentially claiming the intelectual high ground with it's stated purpose. Excluding people based on philisophical grounds will bring that claim into serious doubt.

A person's viewpoint can be valuable, even if you do not personally agree with it. Limiting the forum membership to certain viewpoints will almopst certainly limit it in value as well.

On the other hand, making a strong effort to eliminate counterproductive behaviors will only increase the quality and volume of discussion here.

The best way to eliminate those behaviors is with a clear & objective set of rules that define what is acceptable and what is not. These rules should be designed to promote a free exchange of ideas and civil discussion. They must be prominently posted for the membership to see, and enforced by the staff. There should also be a clear & objective process set up that outines what steps are taken when infravctions of the rules occur. It also helps to instill in the general membership a spirit of community and helpfulness in keeping the forum clean.

Those are my thoughts, but I have one last thing to say; where I have made statements that are critical of the state of this forum, I do not mean that to be an indictment of the staff here. Since I have joined this forum, I have found the staff to be fair, hardworking & friendly. :)

Regards, Canis
"It is proper for you to doubt ... do not go upon report ... do not go upon tradition ... do not go upon hear-say." ~ Buddha
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Re: Poll: Should Skeptics be allowed in this forum?

Postby ProfWag » 17 Jun 2010, 01:58

caniswalensis wrote:
The best way to eliminate those behaviors is with a clear & objective set of rules that define what is acceptable and what is not. These rules should be designed to promote a free exchange of ideas and civil discussion. They must be prominently posted for the membership to see, and enforced by the staff. There should also be a clear & objective process set up that outines what steps are taken when infravctions of the rules occur. It also helps to instill in the general membership a spirit of community and helpfulness in keeping the forum clean.

Regards, Canis

I wholeheartedly agree caniswalensis. However, I think that is much easier said than done. For example, let's look at the following post made a short while ago:
Indigo Child wrote:I think the best thing to do, in light of my recent discussion with
the skeptics on this forum(Nostradamus, Prowag, Really) is to turn this
forum into a skeptic free zone and create one separate forum where skeptics
are allowed and give them unrestricted freedom there, so everybody can see the
kind of mentality they have.

Now, would you consider that acceptable and civil? I'm sure some here would, but since it's directed at me, I don't think it is and I take it quite personally. A simple statement "so everybody can see the kind of mentality they have" brings my character into question and a lurker may have second thoughts about me without even seeing the information I present. I immediately become defensive and desire to fire back. I may say some things on here from time to time that perhaps I shouldn't, but so does most everyone else with the possible exception of NinjaPuppy. In the grand scheme of things, I feel like I am a productive poster who tries to promote thought rather than jabs, however, as I've said before, if anyone feels I'm out of line, for goodness sakes let a moderator know so they can ban me.
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Re: Poll: Should Skeptics be allowed in this forum?

Postby NinjaPuppy » 17 Jun 2010, 02:54

OK, EVERYBODY! OUT OF THE POOL!

What would you like me to do, ban ALL of you based on the above commentary? To borrow a phrase from some book, "Let he who is free of sin, cast the first stone" or some such nonsense like that. If you are going to start nit-picking on how polite someone's put down is/was/should be, you will all drive me nuts.

An occasional temper flair that is mostly (and I do use the word 'mostly' here) out of character happens to the best of us. Someone says the wrong thing at the wrong time or commentary is read in haste (while we should all be working and not spending 8 hours a day trying to figure out how to convince someone that their point of view is wrong) and all heck breaks loose.

Y'all want a rules? I'll give you a rules...

1. IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH SOMEONE'S COMMENTARY, REBUTT WITH FACTS AND BACK UP YOUR FACTS WITH WHATEVER YOU CAN FIND.
2. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THEIR CHOICE OF VENUE THAT THE 'FACTS' WERE PRESENTED, FIND BETTER FACTS TO REBUTT WITH.
3. IF YOU STILL DON'T LIKE THEIR POINT OF VIEW OR THEIR COMMENTARY, LEARN TO SCROLL AND IGNORE THEM AND MOVE ON.

Why on earth would anyone care to spend countless hours debating the quality of information, rather than the actual information? And yes, I'm talking to almost EVERY SKEPTIC on this Forum. Who wants to read 15 pages of "That is the best 'proof' you can find???" Now cut me a break and all of you behave like the intelligent people I would like to believe that you are.

The bottom line, at this point there is no right or wrong in most areas of the paranormal. There is right and wrong in many of the subject matter that keeps being thrown into the mix such as con men and rip off artists but they are not exclusive to the paranormal.
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Re: Poll: Should Skeptics be allowed in this forum?

Postby NinjaPuppy » 17 Jun 2010, 02:56

So there!
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Re: Poll: Should Skeptics be allowed in this forum?

Postby ProfWag » 17 Jun 2010, 03:52

Image
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Re: Poll: Should Skeptics be allowed in this forum?

Postby caniswalensis » 17 Jun 2010, 03:56

Could we get those rules posted in a sticky? :D
Last edited by caniswalensis on 17 Jun 2010, 04:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Poll: Should Skeptics be allowed in this forum?

Postby NinjaPuppy » 17 Jun 2010, 03:57

caniswalensis wrote:Could we get those rule posted in a sticky? :D

I got yer 'sticky' right here. :D

I think they already are actually. Not quite and cut and dry, but the same 'suggestions'. Allow me to go look for them and either make them REALLY sticky.
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