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Did Nikola Tesla really discover free energy?

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Re: Did Nikola Tesla really invent free energy?

Postby WhiteTiger » 03 Nov 2009, 23:00

SeanRMR wrote:Umm wind and solar don't have no input after you set up the hardware the supplied input is wind and light. So no they don't quallify as free energy machines.


Apparently the phrase "present in the environment" is too complex for you? The user of the machine supplies nothing but the hardware in situ, the energy is already present and simply accessed by the hardware for use. That my friend is free energy. You might want to bone up a bit on physics, engineering and the terminology before you get into these conversations.



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Re: Did Nikola Tesla really invent free energy?

Postby brett » 03 Nov 2009, 23:18

Scepcop wrote:Will you skeptics admit that the energy cartels are behind the suppression of battery powered cars? That technology has existed for a long time you know. They can even now run cars on water, believe it or not.

Why are skeptics denying everything, including the most obvious things?



Between 1832 and 1839 (the exact year is uncertain), Robert Anderson of Scotland invented the first crude electric carriage. A small-scale electric car was designed by Professor Stratingh of Groningen, Holland, and built by his assistant Christopher Becker in 1835. Practical and more successful electric road vehicles were invented by both American Thomas Davenport and Scotsmen Robert Davidson around 1842. Both inventors were the first to use non-rechargeable electric cells. Frenchmen Gaston Plante invented a better storage battery in 1865 and his fellow countrymen Camille Faure improved the storage battery in 1881. This improved-capacity storage battery paved the way for electric vehicles to flourish.

and then the petrol companies stepped in ;)
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Re: Did Nikola Tesla really invent free energy?

Postby SeanRMR » 04 Nov 2009, 02:43

So what exactly is that physics term I should be looking up in a text book to show me that it is free energy. As the only term I could find was in relation to the amount of energy in a system able to do work. Help someone learn here.


And scepcop. The problem with the battery powered car of todays standard has always been the amount of batteries it has to carry with it the batteries take up alot of space even in things like the prius. The car companies are always trying to make there cars more efficient(well most of them) in the amount of fuel used. wouldn't you think they would also try to put a stop to that if it was for selling oil.

Yes the oil companies wouldn't like it. But they wouldn't be able to stop it all in todays societies. You saying every countries scientific comunity is run by the oil cartels otherwise.
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Re: Did Nikola Tesla really invent free energy?

Postby brett » 04 Nov 2009, 04:00

the BIG problem with these vehicles IS the batteries , as the current battery technology is heavy and large , but some hope may come in the form of super capacitors http://www.mpoweruk.com/supercaps.htm for certain applications such as regenerative breaking ( ergo when you brake the battery's get charged a bit - it also works when going down hill to an extent and is even used in mobility scooters )

see alsohttp://www.mpoweruk.com/alternatives.htm

however there are experimental battery types around and LI ION types ( more familiar in power tools and other rechargeables like you use in your cameras )offer advantages but are at the mo more expensive

one of the OTHER problems is the electric vehicles must look like "proper " cars syndrome - and of course people expect them to be able to do the same distances and speeds - but if you look at your OWN driving habits - how many short journeys ( eg town driving ) do you do and an idea i have had is to have a "modular " car with a slot in all electric module for town /low distance /speed driving and a hybrid module for longer journeys - - it could be done - but if it ever will of course is another matter as it means inconvenience and people don't want that

like wise do you REALLY need a full size car ?? - it is an observable fact ( certainly here in the UK ) that most cars rarely are used to full capacity ,vis only one occupant - so there are alternatives http://www.hammacher.com/Product/11020?refsku=10963&xsp=3 - certainly for town driving BUT of course there will be those who still have the "big car " mentality and will NEVER consider the alternative till forced to

i no longer drive , well not cars anymore as my disability precludes me from doing so -( eyesight ) - and frankly whist i do miss not having a car at times - a lot of the time i don't !! - the expense for one thing

so i now get round using a mobility scooter - well i have 2 actually - one has full weather protection and one is an open version - both cost pennies to recharge - will do about 15 miles or so reliably ( plenty for most journeys and are road legal ( if required ) though i don't use them on the roads as they are not really suitable - but having said that - why bother ?? i can get round town faster than most cars on a busy day - they carry a fair bit with some ingenuity and one can even tow a small trailer - both have a top speed of 8 mph which is quite fast enough ( you are limited to 4 mph on the pavement /side walk ) - maintenance really is basic - and the only things you need to replace are tyres - light bulbs and of course batteries ( about every 3 years or so with daily use and good recharging practices ) - oh and before any of you ask YES we DO have to tax them ! - insurance is advised though not obligatory ( only a fool does not have any though :roll: )

so in all i think that we need a sea change in our outlook on "personal" mobility , and i will hazard that if the law where changed to allow light electric vehicles here ( as in some parts of the states ) with a top speed of say 20 mph - and a range of say 30 miles ?? - we could see this happen - just think it would cure parking problems as you could probably get 3 in one car space

but of course - until either the cost of petrol go's a lot higher or people DO stop and asses their REAL transport needs - nothing will change - and i recon the petrol cartels are quite happy to keep it that way as are ( our ) government as the rake off in fuel tax is enormous :roll:

one thing i like is to be able to say to those who take the mick " well for the cost of one liter of petrol buddy - I get a full weeks driving - do you ?? " - and that usually gets them interested in just what these little electric vehicles CAN do - the down side is you unfortunately have to be disabled to legally use them

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Re: Did Nikola Tesla really invent free energy?

Postby SeanRMR » 04 Nov 2009, 04:31

I think Brett you have covered all the real points in the electric car front. The new technologies coming out are pretty awesome. Though my prediction is atleast 5 to 10 more years before we start to see a real gain in non petrol cars. Here in Australia though it will probably be more like 20 as we never give our cars up till they die.

For me to move to electric I'd need a car that can take my kayak and get down the roads to canyoning places. Also a lot higher wage then I have now with which to afford any current electric car system close to capable of that.

I wonder if subaru will make an electric outback that would be awesome.
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Re: Did Nikola Tesla really invent free energy?

Postby ciscop » 04 Nov 2009, 05:13

WhiteTiger wrote:What I find really amusing about these discussions is the knee jerk dismissal of "free energy" machines by the skeptics/debunkers, when such machines have been known and in daily use for centuries.

The windmill for instance dates back to around the 10th century IIRC. Most forms of solar, wind and water power qualify as free energy devices, since they produce useful energy without the need of supplying an input once the hardware is manufactured and in place.

Even the most whacked out "inventors" of over unity machines for the most part claim to be making use of some as yet untapped source of energy already present in the environment, be it the much touted ZPE or some hairbrained scheme for transforming matter into energy by means other than combustion, fission or fusion.

"Free energy" machines are all around us in this techno-culture, so sneering at the term itself seems quite the ignorant pursuit, imo.



Tiger



well i was talking about perpetual moving machines
which are impossible by our current understanding
and wind, solar and water are not free energy machines since there is an INPUT of energy
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Re: Did Nikola Tesla really invent free energy?

Postby brett » 04 Nov 2009, 14:34

SeanRMR wrote:I think Brett you have covered all the real points in the electric car front. The new technologies coming out are pretty awesome. Though my prediction is atleast 5 to 10 more years before we start to see a real gain in non petrol cars. Here in Australia though it will probably be more like 20 as we never give our cars up till they die.

For me to move to electric I'd need a car that can take my kayak and get down the roads to canyoning places. Also a lot higher wage then I have now with which to afford any current electric car system close to capable of that.

I wonder if subaru will make an electric outback that would be awesome.


i think there will always be a place for ICE vehicles , such as in your situation and many others where the need for high torque situations exists - as one of the major problems with any electric vehicle is the harder you push them ,the more current the motor draws ,and in a stall situation even with my small machine this can exceed 100 amps ( it trips at 70 ) so you can imagine that something with a much bigger motor and batteries could be drawing a heck of a lot of amps which of course will melt even thick cables and cause fires if not controlled .

so i do not for see a day when we have the all electric "utopia " that the green tree huggers would wish , practicality dictates this ,I mean how do you build an electric earth mover /bulldozer for instance - just not practical at the moment - but ,I as i have said there is a place for the technology - a LOT of the worlds population lives in cities where such vehicles ARE a practical proposition

like all things one has to be realistic with all this green stuff - and like most things at the moment electric vehicles are a niche market - hence expensive , but as oil becomes more expensive to produce and shorter in supply - then the shift will inevitably occur - probably not in my life time though ;)

now if some one could come up with a REAL free energy machine .......................... :lol:

in the mean time as they say "second class riding is better than first class walking " - especially in my case as that's a very painful proposition these days for me - i want one of those mechanical "exoskeletons " that the japanese have invented - or some new hips and knee joints :roll:

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Re: Did Nikola Tesla really invent free energy?

Postby Nostradamus » 05 Nov 2009, 04:44

I was just looking at some electric cars at a "green" fair. I saw several cars with a 120 mile range. That's starting to look like a car and not a toy.
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Re: Did Nikola Tesla really invent free energy?

Postby Nostradamus » 05 Nov 2009, 04:47

So-called free energies such as wind, solar, and water have their cons. They can destroy bird populations, bat populations, and fish populations. Solar panel production used to involve some very dangerous chemicals such as arsine and phosgene, hydrofluoric acid, powerful strippers, etc.
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Re: Did Nikola Tesla really invent free energy?

Postby brett » 05 Nov 2009, 13:41

Nostradamus wrote:So-called free energies such as wind, solar, and water have their cons. They can destroy bird populations, bat populations, and fish populations. Solar panel production used to involve some very dangerous chemicals such as arsine and phosgene, hydrofluoric acid, powerful strippers, etc.


and of course we have to remember all the energy USED to make the free energy equipment in the first place ;) - so most of them are not as "green" as are made out - good marketing ploy for the gullible though :lol: :lol:
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Re: Did Nikola Tesla really invent free energy?

Postby SeanRMR » 05 Nov 2009, 17:10

Listening to Dr Karl today on the radio. The energy break even time on non moving solar panels at the moment is about 1.5 years on average. But then he went into how much the coal industrie is subsidised here in australia it's crazy.
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Re: Did Nikola Tesla really invent free energy?

Postby Nostradamus » 07 Nov 2009, 12:44

Coal is big in Oz because the Aussie say no to nukes. In the Kyoto accord Oz gets an extra allotment of carbon due to the no nukes stand. Still the country is way over the mark allowed. It's no wonder that coal is protected in Oz.

Disraeli said "There are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics." Mark Twain an American has been credited with the quote he repeated. What he did was make the quote famous.

There is a lot of truth to this Disraeli quote when it comes to being green. Green places do not consider the energy it requires to produce their places. The energy to manufacture the components of a house in the US vastly overshadows the energy required to run the house.
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Re: Did Nikola Tesla really invent free energy?

Postby wjbeaty » 02 Dec 2009, 16:32

ciscop wrote:well i was talking about perpetual moving machines
which are impossible by our current understanding
and wind, solar and water are not free energy machines since there is an INPUT of energy


Just admit that you don't know what the term "free energy machine" means. And no, it has nothing to do with Gibbs Free Energy in thermo.

Decades ago there were plenty of "perpetual motion" crackpots. But in more recent years has arisen a community of people who pursue similar devices, but who scoff at the pursuit of perpetual motion. Instead, they hope to find simple devices to tap into unknown energy sources. That, or they hope to tap atomic energy without using high energy particles. Or they hope to tap the ZPE which is part of Quantum Mechanics.

They call these devices "free energy machines," in order to distinguish themselves from the Perpetual Motion fringe.

Lumping FE devices together with PM devices is either a sign of ignorance, or it's intentional smear tactic (and Strawman fallacy.)

Of course that's not saying that the FE community ISN'T made up of fringe/crackpot types, and ISN'T full of scammers. It certainly is! But it's one step removed from the PM fringe. They're all searching for a get-rich-quick discovery, same as the people chasing after lost gold mines, and there are lots of shady characters who do the equivalent of selling treasure maps.
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Re: Did Nikola Tesla really invent free energy?

Postby wjbeaty » 02 Dec 2009, 16:53

Oh, and did Tesla invent a FE device?

Tesla himself never claimed any such thing. He invented a broadcast power device. Hook it up to Niagra Falls, then use it to run small clock motors all over the world. Tesla also speculated that someday we'd conquer the Perpetual Motion problem, and create PM machines of the Third Kind (which harness thermal vibrations.) That's what Tesla's "wheelwork of nature" comment was about.

On the other hand, it's possible that Tesla DID discover an energy source, and was carefully keeping it secret. Many of his comments to the press can be interpreted in two ways: regarding broadcast power reception, or regarding tapping into some odd energy source. He also spoke of enormous power levels, but again it was unclear whether he was talking about peaks of pulse power, or talking about an energy source which could supply power. If he was concealing such a discovery, then his twisty comments were probably intentional. He would tell the truth, and get his claims into the public domain in order to establish invention priority ...but he'd hope that his words would be misinterpreted, so his secret doesn't attract industrial spies, and it remains safe even at the same time he's creating time-stamped public evidence for future patent litigation.

I have no doubt that Tesla behaved this way constantly, as he was protecting his proprietary work (and probably intentionally creating an aura of mystery.) But our trying to divine the true meaning behind Tesla's words is similar to listening to voices in white noise, or seeing patterns in the clouds.

In later years, when asked where it all went, Tesla claimed that he abandoned his work intentionally because it was too dangerous for human society, like giving sharp knives to young children. Most people assume that he was just being dishonest in this, since he ran out of funds and had an apparent nervous breakdown at the time. Claiming that it was intentional just sounds like "sour grapes." But ...I could imagine that Tesla's breakdown happened *because* he realized that his greatest accomplishment was too dangerous to ever release.

Why did he retire from the public eye, and stop pursuing funding sources for Wardenclyffe? Heh, maybe one of his simple experiments accidentally destroyed a large Siberian forest, and that's what led to his nervous breakdown and his abandoning the giant power project. :)



PS
Why not using Remote Viewing to go inspect the Colorado Springs laboratory and watch Tesla making his amazing discovery, or not?
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Re: Did Nikola Tesla really discover free energy?

Postby Scepcop » 03 Aug 2010, 08:48

Did you hear about this story that in the 50's, a guy demonstrated free energy before a panel, and then he vanished forever? I forget his name.
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