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What are skeptics so worried about?

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What are skeptics so worried about?

Postby RarelyImpressed » 03 Sep 2009, 05:35

What are skeptics so worried about? With all the evidence for PSI and telepathy why should skeptics be worried? An interesting statement made by David Wilcock was that "it would bring god back in to the equation" Most Skeptics are atheists, not all. Just because there is evidence for PSI or telepathy does not imply there is a god. Another thing with skeptics is attacking "alternative medicine" funny I could of sworn "alternative Medicine" was around before "conventional medicine". I was wondering if anyone could link me to the website subversise thinking, I found the link on this website and it had an interview with someone speaking about whats wrong with Richard Dawkings. When i go to the website its not on there, thanks
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Re: What are skeptics so worried about?

Postby ProfWag » 03 Sep 2009, 20:55

RarelyImpressed wrote:What are skeptics so worried about? With all the evidence for PSI and telepathy why should skeptics be worried? An interesting statement made by David Wilcock was that "it would bring god back in to the equation" Most Skeptics are atheists, not all. Just because there is evidence for PSI or telepathy does not imply there is a god. Another thing with skeptics is attacking "alternative medicine" funny I could of sworn "alternative Medicine" was around before "conventional medicine". I was wondering if anyone could link me to the website subversise thinking, I found the link on this website and it had an interview with someone speaking about whats wrong with Richard Dawkings. When i go to the website its not on there, thanks

Why do you think we skeptics are worried about anything? We're not. As for alternative medicine, you're right, it was around before conventional medicine. I have an idea for you though, next time your are sick with a potentially life threatening illness, why don't you use the alternative medicine that was around before conventional medicine. Let us know how that turns out. (Okay, I'm kidding. I wouldn't want anyone to not take full advantage of all of the medicines available to help one get well, that they choose to take, that is. It is just a point I'm trying to make.)
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Re: What are skeptics so worried about?

Postby quantumparanormal » 03 Sep 2009, 23:41

RarelyImpressed wrote:What are skeptics so worried about? With all the evidence for PSI and telepathy why should skeptics be worried? An interesting statement made by David Wilcock was that "it would bring god back in to the equation" Most Skeptics are atheists, not all. Just because there is evidence for PSI or telepathy does not imply there is a god. Another thing with skeptics is attacking "alternative medicine" funny I could of sworn "alternative Medicine" was around before "conventional medicine". I was wondering if anyone could link me to the website subversise thinking, I found the link on this website and it had an interview with someone speaking about whats wrong with Richard Dawkings. When i go to the website its not on there, thanks


There's nothing at all to worry about. We all have our beliefs, convictions, biases, proofs, and motivations, and each of these things determine our behavior and emotional reactions towards what skeptics, pseudo-skeptics, believers, and pseudo-believers state on these boards. Do you really think I lose sleep at night or my blood pressure spikes thinking about what these people are saying on these boards? Absolutely not. It's just another form of entertainment for me. After all, by being on these boards, we're not conducting scientific research, so it really doesn't matter what's stated here anyway. We all debate in order to reinforce our beliefs, our premises, our statements, sure, but debate is fun for me, not stressful or worrisome, especially when I've got deductive reasoning on my side. What frustrates me sometimes, however, is how both skeptics and believers will presume things are true or false without first having deduced the hypotheses and theories via critically analyzing the data, evidence, premises, and arguments involved which might confirm or dismiss those truths or falsities. This happens so much on these boards, and both sides are to blame for this, but am I gonna worry about it? No way! :lol:
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Re: What are skeptics so worried about?

Postby ProfWag » 04 Sep 2009, 00:25

quantumparanormal wrote:[What frustrates me sometimes, however, is how both skeptics and believers will presume things are true or false without first having deduced the hypotheses and theories via critically analyzing the data, evidence, premises, and arguments involved which might confirm or dismiss those truths or falsities. This happens so much on these boards, and both sides are to blame for this, but am I gonna worry about it? No way! :lol:

Don't forget that not only analyzing the data, evidence, etc., but also consider the source of the information as well. Did THEY use critical thinking in developing their rational for something. Very, very important...
Oh, and I wouldn't be on here if it wasn't fun, challenging, and most importantly educational. But worries? As they say down under, "no worries mate"....
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Re: What are skeptics so worried about?

Postby quantumparanormal » 04 Sep 2009, 23:23

ProfWag wrote:
quantumparanormal wrote:[What frustrates me sometimes, however, is how both skeptics and believers will presume things are true or false without first having deduced the hypotheses and theories via critically analyzing the data, evidence, premises, and arguments involved which might confirm or dismiss those truths or falsities. This happens so much on these boards, and both sides are to blame for this, but am I gonna worry about it? No way! :lol:

Don't forget that not only analyzing the data, evidence, etc., but also consider the source of the information as well. Did THEY use critical thinking in developing their rational for something. Very, very important...
Oh, and I wouldn't be on here if it wasn't fun, challenging, and most importantly educational. But worries? As they say down under, "no worries mate"....


Well, you would think that the process of analyzing the data would include assessing its source.

ProfWag wrote:Did THEY use critical thinking in developing their rational for something. Very, very important...


This is why I like to read the published papers, not just articles or people's opinions/interpretations. While it's time consuming and often arduous a task, I find comfort in coming to a very well informed decision. Luckily, I have a friend who's a career scientist who has access to most of the major journals. I've gone to great lengths to understand what researchers are doing that I've purchased many books on related subjects and taken the time to study them. One example is statistics. I know how to calculate things such as standard deviations & variances, z scores, p-values, apply distributions and functions, such as the chi-square distribution and density function, etc. My point is that I believe that if one is going to criticize research, at least be prepared to understand the elements involved as much as possible.

As the saying goes, "The devil's in the details." More often than not, though, pseudo-skeptics, and even pseudo-believers, leave their "critical thinking in developing their rational for something" at the door, unfortunately. It's not ultimately deductive reasoning that weighs in on the conclusion-forming process, but personal bias. It's evidenced time and time again, especially on these boards.
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Re: What are skeptics so worried about?

Postby ProfWag » 05 Sep 2009, 01:42

quantumparanormal wrote:Well, you would think that the process of analyzing the data would include assessing its source.

Yes, you would think...
BTW, I do have access to Lexus Nexus, ProQuest, etc. Let me know if you have anything you want me to look up.
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Re: What are skeptics so worried about?

Postby ciscop » 05 Sep 2009, 08:13

ProfWag wrote:
quantumparanormal wrote:Well, you would think that the process of analyzing the data would include assessing its source.

Yes, you would think...
BTW, I do have access to Lexus Nexus, ProQuest, etc. Let me know if you have anything you want me to look up.
ProfWag


yep
and thats why you are a great asset to this forum
i liked when scescop said there were papers on nature published supporting something supernatural
and it turned out it was only the uri geller experiment (which came with disclaimers)

pretty cool


aaand.. my 2 cents on this thread
i only care if those beliefs can hurt people
like when they have some decease and instead of going to a real doctor they go to a freaking homeopath
i also care when there;s cults and religions that alianate people.. those are the 2 thing that bothers me the most
other than that
i love the paranormal field
is quite funny
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: What are skeptics so worried about?

Postby quantumparanormal » 05 Sep 2009, 11:24

ciscop wrote:
ProfWag wrote:
quantumparanormal wrote:Well, you would think that the process of analyzing the data would include assessing its source.

Yes, you would think...
BTW, I do have access to Lexus Nexus, ProQuest, etc. Let me know if you have anything you want me to look up.
ProfWag


yep
and thats why you are a great asset to this forum
...
i love the paranormal field
is quite funny


Really? It' not because he's "on your side?" It's because he has access to journals? :lol:

I have access to journals too. Do you think I'm a great asset now too?

Yeah, the paranormal "is quite funny." So, too, are the pseudo-skeptics. :lol:
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Re: What are skeptics so worried about?

Postby ciscop » 05 Sep 2009, 12:06

yes! then you are a great asset too!
as long as you share some of those links or journals (whenever is possible) or whatever you find throught your scientist friend
is awesome having those resources
i use to have proquest too when i was in college.. it shames me i never use it the way i should back then.

and i am not sure profwag and me are always on the same side
i do have my doubts regarding 911 which he doesnt (well, i dont know if he doesnt have doubts)
but.. to be specifical
do i think twin towers was a controlled demolition? no
do i think bush knew about it and use it to get reelected and invent a war? yes
but thats just a belief based on nothing

and i think
profwag doesnt agree with the way i treat dave koenig or highflyer
but i cant resist wackos, i just love them.
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: What are skeptics so worried about?

Postby ProfWag » 05 Sep 2009, 19:19

ciscop wrote:yes! then you are a great asset too!
as long as you share some of those links or journals (whenever is possible) or whatever you find throught your scientist friend
is awesome having those resources
i use to have proquest too when i was in college.. it shames me i never use it the way i should back then.

and i am not sure profwag and me are always on the same side
i do have my doubts regarding 911 which he doesnt (well, i dont know if he doesnt have doubts)
but.. to be specifical
do i think twin towers was a controlled demolition? no
do i think bush knew about it and use it to get reelected and invent a war? yes
but thats just a belief based on nothing

and i think
profwag doesnt agree with the way i treat dave koenig or highflyer
but i cant resist wackos, i just love them.

Yea, I think we disagree on those points. I find it hard to believe that our government knew of a specific attack that we just didn't stop. Do I think that we knew that terrorists were planning a significan attack against the US? Quite possibly, but I don't think they knew where and when. But I believe that if we had a chance to prevent it, we would have. I also believe that the government knows more about the before and after 9/11 than they are telling, but I am pretty firm in my belief that's stated above. If antagonizing those two is fun for you, well, then whatever floats your boat. Not that they don't always deserve it.
BTW Quantum, I thought you said you didn't have access to journals? It's good if you do though.
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Re: What are skeptics so worried about?

Postby quantumparanormal » 05 Sep 2009, 22:54

ProfWag wrote:BTW Quantum, I thought you said you didn't have access to journals? It's good if you do though.


I told you I have a friend who has access who lets me take advantage of his subscriptions; therefore, I have access through him.
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Re: What are skeptics so worried about?

Postby ciscop » 06 Sep 2009, 03:27

ProfWag wrote:
ciscop wrote:yes! then you are a great asset too!
as long as you share some of those links or journals (whenever is possible) or whatever you find throught your scientist friend
is awesome having those resources
i use to have proquest too when i was in college.. it shames me i never use it the way i should back then.

and i am not sure profwag and me are always on the same side
i do have my doubts regarding 911 which he doesnt (well, i dont know if he doesnt have doubts)
but.. to be specifical
do i think twin towers was a controlled demolition? no
do i think bush knew about it and use it to get reelected and invent a war? yes
but thats just a belief based on nothing

and i think
profwag doesnt agree with the way i treat dave koenig or highflyer
but i cant resist wackos, i just love them.

Yea, I think we disagree on those points. I find it hard to believe that our government knew of a specific attack that we just didn't stop. Do I think that we knew that terrorists were planning a significan attack against the US? Quite possibly, but I don't think they knew where and when. But I believe that if we had a chance to prevent it, we would have. I also believe that the government knows more about the before and after 9/11 than they are telling, but I am pretty firm in my belief that's stated above. If antagonizing those two is fun for you, well, then whatever floats your boat. Not that they don't always deserve it.
BTW Quantum, I thought you said you didn't have access to journals? It's good if you do though.


ooh ok!
well..then we are not that far away on 911
i dont think BUSH planned 911 neither, just that he knew more before and after.

i also think dick cheney is a sith lord
but thats a discussion for another thread
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: What are skeptics so worried about?

Postby Purple Scissor » 07 Sep 2009, 13:46

Please do not insult the Sith.

I am guessing this link has not been posted here:

http://www.parapsych.org/faq_file3.html#19
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Re: What are skeptics so worried about?

Postby ProfessorX » 13 Sep 2009, 11:01

RarelyImpressed wrote:What are skeptics so worried about? With all the evidence for PSI and telepathy why should skeptics be worried? An interesting statement made by David Wilcock was that "it would bring god back in to the equation" Most Skeptics are atheists, not all.


Your post got me wondering, is there any link or relationship between skepticism and pessimism? Are self-professed skeptics more likely to self-identify as pessimists?

Seems to me that, at least on an abstract level, there is an overlap between skepticism and pessimism, since at the heart of both skepticism and pessimism is doubt. A pessimist doubts that good things will happen, while a skeptic doubts the validity of accounts of the paranormal, unusual, alternative, etc.
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Re: What are skeptics so worried about?

Postby quantumparanormal » 14 Sep 2009, 00:10

ProfessorX wrote:
RarelyImpressed wrote:What are skeptics so worried about? With all the evidence for PSI and telepathy why should skeptics be worried? An interesting statement made by David Wilcock was that "it would bring god back in to the equation" Most Skeptics are atheists, not all.


Your post got me wondering, is there any link or relationship between skepticism and pessimism? Are self-professed skeptics more likely to self-identify as pessimists?

Seems to me that, at least on an abstract level, there is an overlap between skepticism and pessimism, since at the heart of both skepticism and pessimism is doubt. A pessimist doubts that good things will happen, while a skeptic doubts the validity of accounts of the paranormal, unusual, alternative, etc.


They are not the same thing. Pessimism is an inclination to presume events' outcomes will result negatively, whereas skepticism is simply "Doubt about the truth of something."
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