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What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman ?

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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby NinjaPuppy » 02 Jul 2010, 05:09

ProfWag wrote:
Indigo Child wrote:Because the article says so. The patient had AIDS. At the end of treatment he did not.

It does not get anymore simpler.

No it does not say he had AIDS. It said he had the symptoms of AIDS. The difference between having the disease and displaying the symptoms is as different as night and day Indigo Child. The point I was trying to make earlier was that there are many diseases that display the same symptoms of AIDS. So, without a blood test, HOW DO YOU KNOW THE PATIENT HAD AIDS? You don't! As such, you can't say the patient was cured of AIDS. If you continue to argue this point, I will have to question your intelligence.

I have all of those symptoms and I do not have AIDS.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby Indigo Child » 02 Jul 2010, 05:10

I have already cited this article in the other thread you started, but I will cite it again for it is
more evidence for my claim that Yoga and Ayurveda do indeed cure diseases that modern Western
medicine cannot:

Vaidya Balendu`s efforts paid off and the patient who became a landmark case in his life was Iqbal Bhan. He was diagnosed in 1982 for acute lymphoblastic leukemia at Royal Masdah Hospital, Sutton, London and was treated for three and a half years which included chemotherapy, radiation and autologous bone marrow transplantation. The patient relapsed within three months of transplantation and was given three weeks to survive. At this stage,Vaidya Balendu started his metal based ayurvedic transplantation which became a success story. Iqbal`s follow up bone marrow, blood report and general condition remain normal and he has now completed thirteen years of disease free survival.


http://www.lifepositive.com/body/body-h ... -drugs.asp

So modern Western medicine had subjected Mr Iqbal Bhan to three and a half years of horrible chemotherapy
radiation and bone marrow transplantions, and then told him he had only three weeks to live. Then he starts
Ayurveda and he has now completed 13 years of disease free survival. This is a clearly a case of Ayurveda winning
over modern medicine, establishing its superiority.
Last edited by Indigo Child on 02 Jul 2010, 05:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby Indigo Child » 02 Jul 2010, 05:13

No it does not say he had AIDS. It said he had the symptoms of AIDS.


This is what it says:

Dr Shanthakumar first treated an AIDS victim in 1992: "About eight years ago, an AIDS patient met me.


This says the patient had AIDS.

If you continue to argue this point, I will have to question your intelligence.


At this point I can certainly question your reading ability.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby ProfWag » 02 Jul 2010, 05:35

Indigo Child wrote:
No it does not say he had AIDS. It said he had the symptoms of AIDS.


This is what it says:

Dr Shanthakumar first treated an AIDS victim in 1992: "About eight years ago, an AIDS patient met me.


This says the patient had AIDS.

If you continue to argue this point, I will have to question your intelligence.


At this point I can certainly question your reading ability.

Selective posting Indigo Child. From the article you referred to: (underline mine)

Ayurvedic practitioner Dr G. Shanthakumar, based in Mumbai, India, claims that ayurveda identified AIDS over 2,000 years ago. The ancient malady was termed Rajayakshma (the king of diseases) and its symptoms were identical to AIDS going by the descriptions of Vagbhata in Ashtanga Hridayam (Chikitsitam section) and its supplementary text, the Ashtanga Sangraham, as well as in another ayurvedic classic, Charaka Samhita (Nidanam section).
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby Indigo Child » 02 Jul 2010, 05:40

Hmm, nope. I am actually quite surprised I have to read it for you, when your
first language is English.

Again, step by step:

1.Dr Shantakumar believes that Rajaykshma is AIDS
2. Dr Shantakumar treats actual AIDS victims using Ayurvedic treatment for Rajaykshma
3. The AIDS victim respond well, one is even cured completely.

If I have to explain this any further, I will certainly have to question your intelligence.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby ProfWag » 02 Jul 2010, 08:57

Will someone other than Indigo child please read the following and tell us your opinion. Did the Dr. 1) treat a patient with AIDS or 2) did the Dr. treat a patient with symptoms of AIDS that may or may not have actually been the AIDS virus? Also, if you wouldn't mind answering, do you read this that the Dr. did not test the patient for the AIDS virus? Again, anyone but Indigo Child is welcome to answer honestly.

INTRODUCTION
Ayurvedic practitioner Dr G. Shanthakumar, based in Mumbai, India, claims that ayurveda identified AIDS over 2,000 years ago. The ancient malady was termed Rajayakshma (the king of diseases) and its symptoms were identical to AIDS going by the descriptions of Vagbhata in Ashtanga Hridayam (Chikitsitam section) and its supplementary text, the Ashtanga Sangraham, as well as in another ayurvedic classic, Charaka Samhita (Nidanam section).

The major symptoms are:

(1) drastic loss of weight
(2) fatigue and lethargy
(3) susceptibility to allergies and contagious diseases
(4) skin irritations
(5) bronchial disorders, often leading to tuberculosis of the lungs
(6) damage to intestinal flora resulting in diarrhoea, dysentery, gastritis and
(7) wide fluctuations in body temperature.

Significantly, the root causes of this disease are:

(1) unhygienic sexual practices such as anal intercourse
(2) indiscriminate intercourse with multiple partners
(3) not cleaning the genitals after coitus
(4) washing the body with contaminated or dirty water
(5) bestiality
(6) contaminated blood.

Despite this, whether AIDS and Rajayakshma are the same disease is a contentious issue. Dr Shanthakumar, however, believes they are and says the treatment used for Rajayakshma can be applied fruitfully in the war against HIV/AIDS.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby Indigo Child » 02 Jul 2010, 20:22

This is only a contentious issue for somebody who has trouble with the english language. I seriously
think Prowag that you have trouble with basic English reading. There is no other way to explain why
you need to so much explanation for something which is clearly stated.

Despite this, whether AIDS and Rajayakshma are the same disease is a contentious issue. Dr Shanthakumar, however, believes they are and says the treatment used for Rajayakshma can be applied fruitfully in the war against HIV/AIDS.

Initially, the patient is given tonics and rejuvenators (Rasayanams) to boost immunity levels. Subsequently, select medicines to counter the virus are administered. Ajamamsa Rasayanam (prepared from cow`s milk, ghee and an extract of goat`s meat) and Indukantham Ghritham are given to strengthen the system and stimulate appetite.

Later, Rasasindoor (prepared with purified mercury) is applied along with some medicines that impart strength. "This treatment regimen is followed for six months and usually shows good results, depending on the severity of the case and associated parameters," says Dr Shanthakumar. The success could be provisional, though. The virus may continue to lurk in the body, but it is unable to do further damage because of the bolstered immune response. The individual may then live out his normal life span.

If the patient begins to recover, shodhana (elimination) techniques are used to expel toxins from the body through enemas, purgation and emesis. The medications administered at this stage are not hard, hot or drastic, but soft, ghee-based and eco-friendly so that the patient withstands them with ease. As overall immunity improves, the blood is purified with cooling medications.

Once the blood has been purified, a strengthening, non-vegetarian diet along with ghee preparations and soups is recommended. But spicy, oily and acidic foods are to be avoided. A little alcohol is recommended as anupana (carrier) to aid the digestive process, and also remove blockages in the blood vessels, i.e. srothorodham.

The patient is bathed twice or thrice a day with cold water, followed by applications of sandalwood paste on the body. The baths cool the body and blood while sandalwood purifies by penetrating the follicles.

"Heated blood is also said to weaken, and even destroy, the virus in some cases. If the patient is incapable of exercising or running due to weakness, then steaming (swedanam) is recommended," Dr Shanthakumar discloses.

The Healed Ones
Dr Shanthakumar first treated an AIDS victim in 1992: "About eight years ago, an AIDS patient met me. I applied the ayurvedic therapy keeping his symptoms in mind. He would collapse with high temperature once a week, though he did not harbor malarial parasites. After a month`s treatment, the fever and shivering subsided. After three months, his weight increased from 43 kg to 48 kg. After ten months, he tested negative for HIV.

"I then became confident about treating AIDS. Through my first patient, two others came to me and were both equally successful. But I never cure. I simply assure a longer lifespan with a constitution and metabolism that functions as close to normal as possible. Out of the 64 patients I have treated in the past eight years, 43 are leading healthy, normal lives. Of course, three of my patients died, possibly because they had reached the last stage."


Let us look at the statements:

1. Dr Shanthakumar, however, believes they are and says the treatment used for Rajayakshma can be applied fruitfully in the war against HIV/AIDS
2. Dr Shanthakumar first treated an AIDS victim in 1992: "About eight years ago, an AIDS patient met me. I applied the ayurvedic therapy keeping his symptoms in mind. He would collapse with high temperature once a week, though he did not harbor malarial parasites. After a month`s treatment, the fever and shivering subsided. After three months, his weight increased from 43 kg to 48 kg. After ten months, he tested negative for HIV.
3. I then became confident about treating AIDS.

It says nothing about Dr Shantakumar treating a disease that has the symptoms of AIDS. It says very clearly that he treated patients with HIV/AIDS. One of those he was able to fully cure, and it is clear it was a full cure, because this person tested for HIV negative after a year of treatment.

This notion that he treated a disease with the symptoms of AIDS has been purely imagined by you.

I will not explain this any further. You either get it this time, or you will never get it.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby NinjaPuppy » 02 Jul 2010, 20:34

After ten months, he tested negative for HIV.

At least we see one reference to 'testing' for HIV.
I then became confident about treating AIDS. Through my first patient, two others came to me and were both equally successful. But I never cure. I simply assure a longer lifespan with a constitution and metabolism that functions as close to normal as possible.

What I don't understand is why doctors from all over the world are not applying ayurvedic therapy in conjuction with the more traditional methods to treat this disease. Where are the lab rat studies?
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby Indigo Child » 02 Jul 2010, 20:42

What I don't understand is why doctors from all over the world are not applying ayurvedic therapy in conjuction with the more traditional methods to treat this disease. Where are the lab rat studies?


I think it is fairly clear. There are plenty of case studies showing that Ayurveda can both treat, and even cure diseases like Diabetes, Cancer and Aids, but at large
allopathy is blissfuly unaware of these studies, and even if they become aware, they are not about to concede to a 5000 year old medical system. That would be be like having
skeptics concede to the paranormal lol
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby ProfWag » 02 Jul 2010, 21:03

Indigo Child wrote:This is only a contentious issue for somebody who has trouble with the english language. I seriously
think Prowag that you have trouble with basic English reading. There is no other way to explain why
you need to so much explanation for something which is clearly stated.


1. Dr Shanthakumar, however, believes they are and says the treatment used for Rajayakshma can be applied fruitfully in the war against HIV/AIDS
2. Dr Shanthakumar first treated an AIDS victim in 1992: "About eight years ago, an AIDS patient met me. I applied the ayurvedic therapy keeping his symptoms in mind. He would collapse with high temperature once a week, though he did not harbor malarial parasites. After a month`s treatment, the fever and shivering subsided. After three months, his weight increased from 43 kg to 48 kg. After ten months, he tested negative for HIV.
3. I then became confident about treating AIDS.

This notion that he treated a disease with the symptoms of AIDS has been purely imagined by you.

I will not explain this any further. You either get it this time, or you will never get it.


The #1 statement above says: "Dr Shanthakumar, however, believes they are..." If one were to use their critical thinking skills, I believe they would plainly see that Dr. Shanthakumar didn't use blood work to determine the patient had AIDS before treatment, only that the doctor BELIEVED he did. I'm not sure how much more clear that can get. There is no mention in the article of the patient being tested before treatment began. If you want to go to a Doctor who tells you that you have AIDS because you have the symptoms without doing lab work, then by all means, you go to that Doctor.
Thank you NinjaPuppy for showing me that I'm not the only one who questions whether or not the patient had AIDS before treatment began. I would welcome comments from anyone else except Indigo Child. IC, you have presented your case, I disagree with it, and would like to see the opinions of others now.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby Indigo Child » 03 Jul 2010, 07:24

I cannot see any critical thinking here. What I see is very poor reading skills and
hallucination, as in you are seeing things in the article that are not there lol -
Is this what you skeptics call critical thinking? lol

He treated AIDS paitents. Do you know what this means? It means people who
have AIDS.

Here, let me put in big letters for you of what the article says:

Dr Shanthakumar first treated an AIDS victim in 1992: "About eight years ago, an AIDS patient met me.

So what does that say, the doctor is saying he treated patients who had AIDS. The actual disease called AIDS. You know....
like.... people who have AIDS. Patient + AIDS = AIDS patient. Do you want me to use a digram or something? :lol:

Any normal person can follow what the article says.

1. Dr Shantakumar believes the Ayurvedic disease Rajayskhma is AIDS.
2. He believes that he can use the Ayurvedic treatment for Rajayshma against AIDS
3. He treats AIDS patients(i.e., patients with AIDS) using Ayurvedic treatment for Rajaykshma

By the way Ninjapuppy was not agreeing with you. She was pointing out that there is indeed a reference in the
article that the patient was tested for HIV.

Prowag, is English your first language?
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby really? » 03 Jul 2010, 10:32

Indigo Child wrote:
What I don't understand is why doctors from all over the world are not applying ayurvedic therapy in conjuction with the more traditional methods to treat this disease. Where are the lab rat studies?


I think it is fairly clear. There are plenty of case studies showing that Ayurveda can both treat, and even cure diseases like Diabetes, Cancer and Aids, but at large
allopathy is blissfuly unaware of these studies, and even if they become aware, they are not about to concede to a 5000 year old medical system. That would be be like having
skeptics concede to the paranormal lol


You didn't answer the question. Surely if it's as superior to western medicine as you claim western medicine would gladly use it. Remember I've had many doctors from India not once did they ever mention recommend Ayurveda as a viable adjunct treatment- not once.
Which form of diabetes does it cure Type 1 insulin resistant or Type 2 insulin dependent ?
Which type of cancer or all cancers ?
I thought you said Ayurveda was 3000 years old.
Indigo you are blissfully unaware of your own faulty thinking. I know you think you can't think faultily as you are a true skeptic immune to the thinking errors we pseudo-skeptics fall prey to all the time, but you do nearly everytime you think.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby ProfWag » 03 Jul 2010, 18:09

And let me put it in big letters for you Indigo:

Dr Shantakumar believes the Ayurvedic disease Rajayskhma is AIDS.

This means that Doctor doesn't have a clue what the hell he's treating. Case closed.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby Indigo Child » 03 Jul 2010, 22:03

Some simple logic here(others call it reading... but hey)

Dr Shantakumar believes Rajaykshma is AIDS,
he does not believe AIDS is Rajayshma.

He has said very clearly because he believes Rajaykshma is AIDS,
his hypothesis is that the Ayurvedic treatment for Rajaykshma can be
used against AIDS and HIV. Indeed, he was able to prove his hypothesis
by curing an AIDS patient.

The fact that you are unable to accept something so explicitly stated in the
article throws into question everything you say about anything. It clearly shows
you cannot read.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby Indigo Child » 03 Jul 2010, 22:09

Surely if it's as superior to western medicine as you claim western medicine would gladly use it. Remember I've had many doctors from India not once did they ever mention recommend Ayurveda as a viable adjunct treatment- not once.


It's not uncommon in India for doctors to recommend Ayurveda. This is because Ayurveda is more well known in India.

Which form of diabetes does it cure Type 1 insulin resistant or Type 2 insulin dependent ?


Read the study I posted earlier a few pages back on Ayurveda and Diabetes.

]Which type of cancer or all cancers ?


Read the article and the site with the case histories I posted earlier. There are case histories for all kinds
of cancers there.

I thought you said Ayurveda was 3000 years old.


It's at the very least 3000 years old, but its origins go back very far to the
Indus valley, which is 5000 years old. So it is approx 5000 years old. However,
we only have documented evidence from 3000 years ago, and only archeological
evidence for the IVC. Roughly, the dates by modern historians for the Ayurvedic
classics is dated around 600BCE. However, the classics mention geneologies going
back much further.

Dating Indian history is controversial, because there are essentially two different histories:
modern history which is steeped in colonial politics, and Indian history as based on indigenous
documnents and evidence. As per the Indian records, even the dates of Buddha are wrong, and
his actually time is 1500BCE. Modern dates say 500BCE. Why there is this discrepancy is a whole
topic in itself.
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