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What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman ?

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What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman ?

Postby really? » 23 Jun 2010, 08:08

Saving Lives with Skepticism
We skeptics talk about many different things. Ghosts, psychics, intelligent design, cryptozoology, and dowsing are all frequent topics for our lectures and articles, but in most cases these are academic exercises. It's true that in some cases we might save someone pain and suffering, such as when people realize that the "psychic" who's been taking their $100 a week really can't talk to the dead, or when someone takes our advice and doesn't buy the $30,000 audio cables. For matters of so-called "complementary and alternative medicine," the stakes are higher and a skeptical viewpoint can actually save a life, as whatstheharm.net shows in some detail. But in the past year, we skeptics did something quite a bit more impressive. We literally saved hundreds if not thousands of lives, and it all started at a meeting at JREF headquarters.

But actually that's not true... as with many things skeptical, it begins with Randi, tirelessly dogging promoters of "woo-woo." A search of Google shows us nearly 1500 references to the word dowsing on randi.org, and that doesn't include the forum. Randi and the challenge have been responsible for demonstrating over and over again that dowsing does not work. It doesn't work with forked willow branches, pendulums, and it still doesn't work when batteries and ersatz electronic ciruits are added. We've seen this last form under the names "Quadrotracker," "Sniffex," and the later form of the Quadrotracker, "ADE 561." It's these "hi-tech" dowsers that turn a harmless delusion into a profitable and deadly deception.

More http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swi ... icism.html
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby Indigo Child » 23 Jun 2010, 10:24

I think skeptics should let people arrive at their own conclusions and stop preaching to them.
If the psychic charging them $100 is not legit, they should have the sense themselves to know
that. If they don't care whether they are legit or not, then its their business.

Alternative medicine has done a lot to help people and many people testify to this personally.
Many people say Yoga cured their arthiritis, or heart disease or parkinsons disease etc. Many
people say meditation has made them happier and generally well rounded people. Many people
say Reiki and spiritual healing has saved their lives. Many spiritual organizations are involved
in charity work, disaster relief, environmental initatives.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby really? » 23 Jun 2010, 18:40

Indigo Child wrote:I think skeptics should let people arrive at their own conclusions and stop preaching to them.
If the psychic charging them $100 is not legit, they should have the sense themselves to know
that. If they don't care whether they are legit or not, then its their business.
So you think people should remain uninformed ?

Alternative medicine has done a lot to help people and many people testify to this personally.
Many people say Yoga cured their arthiritis, or heart disease or parkinsons disease etc. Many
people say meditation has made them happier and generally well rounded people. Many people
say Reiki and spiritual healing has saved their lives. Many spiritual organizations are involved
in charity work, disaster relief, environmental initatives.

Testimonials mean nothing. An example http://www.buyirenew.com/?MID=860963
Many spiritual organizations are involved with charity work, disaster relief, environmental initiatives, but what has the New Age community Many spiritual organizations are involved with charity work, disaster relief, environmental initiatives, but what has the New Age community or segment thereof done to inform the public ? You, Scepcop and the other like minded members here and elsewhere have a platform to inform the public of things which do not work unfortunately from your post you believe everything works.
Last edited by really? on 23 Jun 2010, 20:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby NinjaPuppy » 23 Jun 2010, 18:51

really? wrote:Many spiritual organizations are involved with charity work, disaster relief, environmental initiatives, but what has the New Age community done to inform the public ?

The New Age community is not an organization. It is a description, not a club.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby NinjaPuppy » 23 Jun 2010, 19:30

Many people say Yoga cured their arthiritis, or heart disease or parkinsons disease etc. Many people say meditation has made them happier and generally well rounded people.

May I question why you say "cured"? While I totally agree with you that Yoga can 'cure' or eliminate many of the problems associated with these things, it can not cure them.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby really? » 23 Jun 2010, 19:56

NinjaPuppy wrote:
really? wrote:Many spiritual organizations are involved with charity work, disaster relief, environmental initiatives, but what has the New Age community done to inform the public ?

The New Age community is not an organization. It is a description, not a club.


I know but tell that to Indigo child they said it first. Skeptics are not an organization either it's a description also.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby really? » 23 Jun 2010, 19:57

NinjaPuppy wrote:
Many people say Yoga cured their arthiritis, or heart disease or parkinsons disease etc. Many people say meditation has made them happier and generally well rounded people.

May I question why you say "cured"? While I totally agree with you that Yoga can 'cure' or eliminate many of the problems associated with these things, it can not cure them.


To whom are you asking ?
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby NinjaPuppy » 23 Jun 2010, 20:00

really? wrote:
NinjaPuppy wrote:
really? wrote:Many spiritual organizations are involved with charity work, disaster relief, environmental initiatives, but what has the New Age community done to inform the public ?

The New Age community is not an organization. It is a description, not a club.


I know but tell that to Indigo child they said it first. Skeptics are not an organization either it's a description also.

Yes but you specifically reference and quote JREF in your OP. That most certainly is an Organization and many in JREF are self proclaimed skeptics.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby NinjaPuppy » 23 Jun 2010, 20:01

really? wrote:
NinjaPuppy wrote:
Many people say Yoga cured their arthiritis, or heart disease or parkinsons disease etc. Many people say meditation has made them happier and generally well rounded people.

May I question why you say "cured"? While I totally agree with you that Yoga can 'cure' or eliminate many of the problems associated with these things, it can not cure them.


To whom are you asking ?

I was asking IC but you are most welcomed to chime in if you have something to offer.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby really? » 23 Jun 2010, 20:30

really? wrote:Many spiritual organizations are involved with charity work, disaster relief, environmental initiatives, but what has the New Age community done to inform the public ?

NinjaPuppy wrote:The New Age community is not an organization. It is a description, not a club.


really? wrote:I know but tell that to Indigo child they said it first. Skeptics are not an organization either it's a description also.

NinjaPuppy wrote:Yes but you specifically reference and quote JREF in your OP. That most certainly is an Organization and many in JREF are self proclaimed skeptics.


True JREF is an organization but it was skeptics that voice there objections.The same can be accomplished by the founder, board members and forum members here. In that spirit this site too is an organization.
Frankly, I don't think the New Age community in whole or part would ever go about exposing fraud. For it would necessarily cause people look seriously at their own ideas and determine what is real and what is not real and come to a consensus and public declaration. That seems impossible when you consider the idea expressed everything's possible.
Last edited by really? on 23 Jun 2010, 21:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby NinjaPuppy » 23 Jun 2010, 20:48

really? wrote:True JREF is an organization but it was skeptics that voice there objections.The same can be accomplished by the founder, board members and forum members here. In that spirit this site too is an organization.

I disagree. This is a public Forum, not an Organization. Winston does not ask for donations, he is not a 501(c)(3) registered with the IRS. He does not have a corporate building or a BOD. We are not organized as individuals in any way under any state or local authority.

really? wrote:Frankly, I don't think the New Age community in whole or part would ever go about exposing fraud. For it would necessarily cause people look seriously at their own ideas and determine what is real and what is not real and come to a consensus and public declaration.

Can you please explain this comment a bit more please?

really wrote:That seems anathema when you consider the idea expressed everything's possible.

I will also need you to clarify what you mean in this sentence as well.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby really? » 23 Jun 2010, 21:32

NinjaPuppy wrote:
really? wrote:True JREF is an organization but it was skeptics that voice there objections.The same can be accomplished by the founder, board members and forum members here. In that spirit this site too is an organization.

I disagree. This is a public Forum, not an Organization. Winston does not ask for donations, he is not a 501(c)(3) registered with the IRS. He does not have a corporate building or a BOD. We are not organized as individuals in any way under any state or local authority.

really? wrote:Frankly, I don't think the New Age community in whole or part would ever go about exposing fraud. For it would necessarily cause people look seriously at their own ideas and determine what is real and what is not real and come to a consensus and public declaration.

Can you please explain this comment a bit more please?

really wrote:That seems impossible when you consider the idea expressed 'everything's possible'. Edited to remove the incorrect word anathema

I will also need you to clarify what you mean in this sentence as well.

I said in the spirit. You are getting bogged down in legalities of what is and is not an organization. This forum has the power to organize members to speak out. That's all it takes.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby NinjaPuppy » 23 Jun 2010, 22:04

really? wrote:I said in the spirit. You are getting bogged down in legalities of what is and is not an organization.

I am not getting bogged down in legalites. I am asking for clarification of terminology.

really? wrote:This forum has the power to organize members to speak out. That's all it takes.

Once again, I must ask for clarification. That's all it takes for what? To become what? To do exactly what? To speak out about what?
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby really? » 23 Jun 2010, 22:43

NinjaPuppy wrote:
really? wrote:I said in the spirit. You are getting bogged down in legalities of what is and is not an organization.

I am not getting bogged down in legalites. I am asking for clarification of terminology.

really? wrote:This forum has the power to organize members to speak out. That's all it takes.

Once again, I must ask for clarification. That's all it takes for what? To become what? To do exactly what? To speak out about what?


To speak out against false claims, products and whatnot. You did read the article I posted right ?
Legalities shmalities this is a forum to express ideas promoting the paranormal. That same philosophy can be extended to not promoting things that don't work or are of questionable value. I hope this is clear now.
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Re: What Have Believers Done to Help there Fellow Man/Woman

Postby NinjaPuppy » 23 Jun 2010, 23:08

really? wrote:To speak out against false claims, products and whatnot. You did read the article I posted right ?
Legalities shmalities this is a forum to express ideas promoting the paranormal. That same philosophy can be extended to not promoting things that don't work or are of questionable value. I hope this is clear now.

Clear as mud.

If you are speaking about the link to the JREF article, yes I read it. Whoopie! Good for them. I wish them all the best in their never ending battle for truth, justice and American way. I still don't get your point. Are you suggesting that this Forum be just like JREF? Or that it could be just AS good as JREF? If it's either of those suggestions, please let me know.

Sweet baby cheeses! Give me something in plain English here.
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