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What event in your life turned you into a Skeptic/Atheist?

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Re: What event in your life turned you into a Skeptic/Atheis

Postby Indigo Child » 02 Jul 2010, 20:08

And here is yet another case you cannot explain without using the ETH: http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case16.htm
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Re: What event in your life turned you into a Skeptic/Atheis

Postby ProfWag » 02 Jul 2010, 21:19

Extraterestrial life is certainly one possibility. There are other possibilities as well. All you produce is evidence and it's very interesting. False radar readings were quite common in the 20th century. Meteors, ball lightning, and many other rational explanations could also be the culprit. To say the evidence is proof does not meet critical thinking. It is the easy way out.
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Re: What event in your life turned you into a Skeptic/Atheis

Postby Indigo Child » 03 Jul 2010, 22:23

Again, you are failing to engage with the evidence. Not only did the radar report these UFO's, they later were able to
indeed see the UFO at the place the radar reported.

For somebody who harps on about critical thinking so much, you sure don't read anything carefully.
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Re: What event in your life turned you into a Skeptic/Atheis

Postby ProfWag » 04 Jul 2010, 05:41

Indigo Child wrote:Again, you are failing to engage with the evidence. Not only did the radar report these UFO's, they later were able to
indeed see the UFO at the place the radar reported.

For somebody who harps on about critical thinking so much, you sure don't read anything carefully.

Still doesn't mean it was an alien life form they saw. As I said, it is one possibility, but not the only one. You really shouldn't jump to conclusions so fast.
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Re: What event in your life turned you into a Skeptic/Atheis

Postby Indigo Child » 04 Jul 2010, 06:59

ProfWag wrote:
Indigo Child wrote:Again, you are failing to engage with the evidence. Not only did the radar report these UFO's, they later were able to
indeed see the UFO at the place the radar reported.

For somebody who harps on about critical thinking so much, you sure don't read anything carefully.

Still doesn't mean it was an alien life form they saw. As I said, it is one possibility, but not the only one. You really shouldn't jump to conclusions so fast.


The simplest explanation here is the ETH.

Unless you can prove we had aircraft that could acclerate to 9000mph within seconds in 1952.
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Re: What event in your life turned you into a Skeptic/Atheis

Postby ProfWag » 04 Jul 2010, 18:54

Indigo Child wrote:
ProfWag wrote:
Indigo Child wrote:Again, you are failing to engage with the evidence. Not only did the radar report these UFO's, they later were able to
indeed see the UFO at the place the radar reported.

For somebody who harps on about critical thinking so much, you sure don't read anything carefully.

Still doesn't mean it was an alien life form they saw. As I said, it is one possibility, but not the only one. You really shouldn't jump to conclusions so fast.


The simplest explanation here is the ETH.

Unless you can prove we had aircraft that could acclerate to 9000mph within seconds in 1952.

Not saying they were, but wouldn't the simplest explanation be they lied about seeing it? Wouldn't another simple explanation be that it was a meteor they saw? Wouldn't yet another simple explanation be it was ball lightning?
To say that it was an alien life form is not the simplest explanation.
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Re: What event in your life turned you into a Skeptic/Atheis

Postby Indigo Child » 04 Jul 2010, 20:05

This is where you show your pseudoskepticism.

Why should the simplest explanation be they lied about seeing it? The very fact that there there
are thousands of cases of pilot testimonies, thousands of cases of high ranking officials, including
US presidents, NASA officials, astronauts and the very fact that some governments around the world
have admitted to them existing clearly shows that this ain't no lie.

I seriously have to question the intelligence of somebody accusing all of these people of lying.

The fact is clear here, UFO's exist. They are are some kind of aircraft that do not belong to any known
human groups, and are capable of feats which go beyond our scientific capability.

No, they are not meteorites, because meteorites do not chase planes, change direction, and accelerate
to 9000mph. No, they are not balls of lightening, for exactly the same reasons. Morever a ball of lighening
would not show up on a radar.

Simplest explanation does not mean an explanation that is most comfortable with your worldview. It means an
explanation that best fits the data.

You don't work with data. You have shown yourself to consistenly reject data when you don't like it. You know yourself
accepting the data in this case will force you to accept the ETH.

I think you are in denial about the paranormal. Period. Its more psychological than it is rational. Something has happened
in your life that has disenchanted your view of reality, and evidence to the contrary, you resist..
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Re: What event in your life turned you into a Skeptic/Atheis

Postby really? » 04 Jul 2010, 20:15

Indigo Child wrote:Again, you are failing to engage with the evidence. Not only did the radar report these UFO's, they later were able to
indeed see the UFO at the place the radar reported.

For somebody who harps on about critical thinking so much, you sure don't read anything carefully.


When in your mind fast flying radar contact= alien intelligence how much critical thinking are you applying ? That is a possibility, it however is not the only possible explanation. You should keep in mind that one's position might be in error for it gets tiring that I have to do it for you constantly.
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Re: What event in your life turned you into a Skeptic/Atheis

Postby Indigo Child » 04 Jul 2010, 20:22

really? wrote:
Indigo Child wrote:Again, you are failing to engage with the evidence. Not only did the radar report these UFO's, they later were able to
indeed see the UFO at the place the radar reported.

For somebody who harps on about critical thinking so much, you sure don't read anything carefully.


That is a possibility, it however is not the only possible explanation. You should keep in mind that one's position might be in error


There is a possibility you are a computer simulated character in a matrix right now created by robots.

Mere possibility is not enough to argue any case.

What are the alternative explanations that work for the B52 case? I will emphasise that work.
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Re: What event in your life turned you into a Skeptic/Atheis

Postby really? » 04 Jul 2010, 20:43

Indigo Child wrote:
really? wrote:
Indigo Child wrote:Again, you are failing to engage with the evidence. Not only did the radar report these UFO's, they later were able to
indeed see the UFO at the place the radar reported.

For somebody who harps on about critical thinking so much, you sure don't read anything carefully.


That is a possibility, it however is not the only possible explanation. You should keep in mind that one's position might be in error


There is a possibility you are a computer simulated character in a matrix right now created by robots.

Mere possibility is not enough to argue any case.

What are the alternative explanations that work for the B52 case? I will emphasise that work.


I don't know what alternative there may be I'm not familiar with this case.
You make the mistake of favoring one and only one possibility, the Extraterrestrial intelligence Hypothesis.


P.S. This would be a good time for you to exercise the totally useless construct - the Null Hypothesis.
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Re: What event in your life turned you into a Skeptic/Atheis

Postby ProfWag » 05 Jul 2010, 01:09

An important statement concerning this UFO that was "surprisingly" left out of your case file:
"Visual observations consisted of one or two blue-white flashes, one of which, as viewed from the waist blister, appeared to pass under a wing of the aircraft. All of these may have been above the horizon, since the wingtip would appear well above the horizon as viewed from this position. The observers stated that the flashes "did not alter course whatsoever." These visual sightings were probably Geminid meteors; the wing operations officer stated: "Visual sightings are indecisive and of little confirmatory value."
http://www.ufodna.com/uf18/uf7/187055.htm

Also from this article:
"In summary, it seems most likely that the cause of this sighting can be assigned to radar AP, for which there is meteorological evidence, and meteors."
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Re: What event in your life turned you into a Skeptic/Atheis

Postby Indigo Child » 06 Jul 2010, 01:30

I reviewed the article and the source, and I found it to be a biassed site.

First of all let us begin with this:

All of these may have been above the horizon, since the wingtip would appear well above the horizon as viewed from this position.


Another argument from possibility fallacy. One cannot make up a case on just possibility alone.

It is clear from reading the case that there were objects that were found chasing the plane, changing direction and this detected on radar
and also observed. Most notably, they were accelerating. Meteorites do not do this.

In reviewing the website UFO+DNA, the bias of this site became very apparent. The sites author is peddling an interpretation of UFO's as
some kind of spiritual phenomena:

From another direction comes legitimate scientific research into near death experiences. This has led to the observation that our DNA has insufficient information to encode the complexity of our bodies and our brains have insufficient capacity to store all of our memories. It has been theorized (see van Lommel and Berkovich) that a quantum field exists, outside of our body, which is the actual location of the design of our body and our consciousness and memory. Our DNA is only the "barcode" for our material selves, and our brain is like a television set, receiving the processed information and memories from our extended consciousness. When a television set is turned off, it does not mean that the transmission has stopped. Likewise, death does not mean the end of human consciousness, it is rather the end of the receiver in this space-time continuum.

It is a short step from this to the concept that our consciousness is part of an extended worldwide or universal or multidimensional consciousness, as advocated by moonwalker Edgar Mitchell and his Noetics institute. This is an individualistic expression of Princeton Physicist John A Wheeler's information universe.

This brings us to Keel, who like other paranormal or Fortean researchers, considered UFO's one of many manifestations of a multidimensional universe that the human mind is part of and can sometimes tune into.

And finally we are back to Menzel, who considered that inexplicable UFO sightings were human delusions confined to the mind. There is no real disagreement between him and Vallee or Keel - only in a view of what the mind is, what perception is, what reality is, how many co-located dimensions there are in the universe.

Of course there are mix-and-match versions. Obviously some UFO reports are of secret aircraft, although not necessarily any using alien or anti-gravity technology. The Roswell / Area 51 mythology posits that UFO's are both alien and earthly devices, derived from alien technology. Hynek seems to have been an agnostic, but it seems likely he favored Hill's conclusion rather than Vallee's. And it is possible that UFO sightings are a mix-and-match of all the explanations.


Not that I deny that some UFO's are not spiritual phenomena. However, it is clear in cases where there are physical flying craft, then it is not a spiritual phenomena.
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Re: What event in your life turned you into a Skeptic/Atheis

Postby Indigo Child » 06 Jul 2010, 02:23

I will demonstrate clear examples now which refute the meteor hypothesis:

From the case report:

Lieutenant Coleman was watching his radarscope, waiting to detect he coastline. At 05:25 local time, he saw a fast moving target on the radarscope, approaching the plane from ahead, at the relative direction of 12 o'clock. What puzzled Coleman is that between each sweep of the radar, the object seemed to have moved 13 nautical miles towards the B-29, which he knew was a speed impossible to any known aircraft.

Lieutenant Coleman used his stopwatch to measure the sped of the object and calculated that it was flying at the speed of 5.240 miles per hour.


Lets start playing Cluedo:

What are the possibilities here:

1. It is a meteor
2. It is a radar glitch
3. It is an alien space ship

He then decided to alert the flight commander, Captain Harter. Harter replied that such as speed was "impossible" and asked Coleman to re-calibrate his radar set.

As Coleman was re-calibrating his radar set, four other blips of an unknown nature appeared on his radarscope, but also on Captain Harder's radarscope and on the navigator's scope, also at the relative position of 12 o'clock, and also approaching the B-29 at high speed.

Coleman was done recalibrating the radar set; he actually found out that the calibration was correct from the start and that the radar was functioning correctly.


Eliminate 2: It is a radar glitch. All three radars are showing the object, even after caliberation.

At this time, one of the four blips on the radarscope left the group of the four blips and accelerated, approaching the B-29, coming very near. Master Sergeant Bailey noted that, and rushed to the right waist blister to try to see what the object was.

Bailey was totally bewildered to see that indeed at the expected position, an object was visually visible; a blue lit object streaking by the plane far enough to the right side of the plane, circling around it.


Eliminate 1: It is a meteor. Meteor do not fly in formation, accelerate and circle around planes.

At this moment, a second group of blips appeared on all three radar set, seen by all, as the crew was now aware that there was something strange on the radar set. The new group of object also appeared at the relative position of 12 o'clock, they were rushing towards the bomber but this time their courses missed the bomber by several miles. Their speed was calculated with the sop watch; it was also 5.000 miles per hour.


Meteors do not rush towards planes either.

Meanwhile, Captain Harter was studying his radarscope; he noted that forty miles behind the B-29, at the relative position of 6 o'clock, a group of five object was cutting the flightpath of the B-29, and turned as to follow the B-29 from behind. They were heading straight to the B-29 at fast speed, then slowed down when they were closing in on the B-29. The remained right there at the back of the B-29 for ten seconds.


Meteors also do not follow planes, speed up and slow down in a moment.

Meanwhile, a larger blip had appeared on the radarscopes. This blip made a motionless half inch spot on the radarscopes, a size impossible to any known plane.

The group of five objects pacing the B-29 then turned, and started to accelerate. The entire crew saw on their radarscope that the group of five approached the huge motionless blip and seemed to merge into it. Now, only the large blip remained on the scope. In a moment, the huge blip took speed.


Meteors do not change course. Meteors do not fly in formation and then merge into other meteors. Meteors are not stationary

Coleman called Harter on the intercom and told him that he and Bailey clocked the huge blip. Coleman said: "You won't believe this. It was making over 9000 miles per hour."

Harter replied: "I believe it, all right. That's just what I figured."


Meteors do not come to a halt mid-air and then suddenly accelerate to 9000mph.

Conclude 3.
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Re: What event in your life turned you into a Skeptic/Atheis

Postby Indigo Child » 06 Jul 2010, 02:28

You make the mistake of favoring one and only one possibility, the Extraterrestrial intelligence Hypothesis. [/color]


Simply, because it the simplest explanation to explain cases where all other explanations fail.

P.S. This would be a good time for you to exercise the totally useless construct - the Null Hypothesis.


An explanation is not an explanation if it fails to explain. The Null hypothesis is useless if it does not explain the data.
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Re: What event in your life turned you into a Skeptic/Atheis

Postby ProfWag » 06 Jul 2010, 03:33

Simply put, the website you originally used as a source left out important information that confirmed meteoroligical effects (weather) and it also left out an important statement from the Ops Officer from the flight. Since it left out this important information, who knows what else the author of ufoevidence.org left out. The site obviously can't be trusted and is full of bias as I have plainly shown.
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