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What is the mechanism in Astrology and patterns above chance

Discuss Divination, Fortune Telling - Astrology, Tarot, Runes, I Ching, Tea Leaves, etc. and Predictions.

Re: What is the mechanism in Astrology and patterns above ch

Postby stevetrueblue » 19 Jul 2010, 09:37

The skeptics expose their own personal and collective dsyfunction. Its an inability to see patterns like ordinary people, they see only confusion and randomness which they insist explains EVERYTHING ! . Either they genuinely don't see it, true for some, or they are simply practising Denialism- Contrarianism to replace their inability to evaluate patterns and form their own opinion. Pattern blindness is likely as widespread as colour blindness.

Inventor of the IQ test psychologist Eyesenk proved statistically that the water signs birthdate people are introverts.
The word month is derived from Moonth a 30 day cycle of the moon.The moon lifts oceans, and we are water thus may be influenced in some imperceptible way.
Its hard to see much mechanism in astrology if you are materialist and believe in the defunct gravity mass universe big bang and you exist entirely inside your own skin, as a mere animal.This a crippling mindset. You are likely required to obtain understanding by studying non locality which states that our disconnection from everything else is pure illusion. That all things are actually connected.Which raises the question do you really have freewill? if you keep chasing Libra women it suggests your are not so free willed as you think. Another illusion.The answers will be found in mental planes.Virtually unexplored, which is most of our existence, so far innacessible to objective materialist science.
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Re: What is the mechanism in Astrology and patterns above ch

Postby ProfWag » 19 Jul 2010, 20:44

stevetrueblue wrote:The moon lifts oceans, and we are water thus may be influenced in some imperceptible way.

Sorry, but science does not agree with this statement.
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Re: What is the mechanism in Astrology and patterns above ch

Postby Craig Browning » 21 Jul 2010, 00:07

ProfWag wrote:
stevetrueblue wrote:The moon lifts oceans, and we are water thus may be influenced in some imperceptible way.

Sorry, but science does not agree with this statement.


Since when? Every science book I've even seen as well as films on the topic of tides says that the moon creates the ebb and flow. when did that change?

I'll go a step further in what stevetrublue says... the blood of human beings is almost exactly the same chemical make-up of sea/ocean water and too, the rhythm of the ocean seems to be in near exact harmony with a resting human heart, something Shaman have known for eons and countless cultures exploited in their various rituals in which drumming and other percussion type sound is manipulated. The whole Tibetan Bowl healing technique is based on this as are most forms of chanting, but then we are moving into the issue of "sound" and "harmonics" that couldn't have anything to do with Astrological Influences, right?

Let's see... every single planet, star, etc. have a frequency. Science has proven this as it has likewise proven that "sound" (for lack of a better term) is a form of physical energy and thus, it MUST create some kind of end phenomena :roll:

The term "Songs of the Heavenly Hosts" is metaphoric when it comes to the reality behind it, but one must understand the precepts behind the Kabalah and its references to catch it; each planet is assigned a "sigil" as well as specific "Angels" (human qualities) and even days of the week, times of the year when it is most influential on the earth and its inhabitants. These esoteric applications were based on CENTURIES of study, observation, as well as silly things like experimentation, peer reviews, etc. In fact, until the 17th and 18th centuries, there was little to no division within science when it came to the planets, terms of affect, etc. and even today those same principles are used even though the two aspects of star study were intentionally divided about 200 years back.

Getting back to the whole "Choir of Angels" point... well, this correlative summary should reveal that the ancients were referring to the sounds made by the planets at different times of the year and when certain alignments took place. Even now, if you could get far removed from all the modern-tech trappings and in the middle of nowhere at night, you can discern the unique sounds of our world and the universe... something shepherds and nomads have spoken of for mellennia along side countless explorers, sailors and the occasional scientist of old, brave enough to step outside society for a moment.

Given this rather extended legacy in which physical energy can be found expressing itself as a transmission by way of the planets & stars and that this is something our more remote ancestors were aware of and defined over the course of several centuries, then it stands to reason that some kind of common manifestation was discovered to exist -- a physical correlation between specific alignments way out there in space and the people, places and things here on earth. The problem is, skeptics want their cake and eat it too. They want to say that the gravity of Jupiter and its signal can't affect life on this planet and yet, in nearly the same breath, they will explain how each planet's energy, orbit and gravitational force works in much the way the cogs of a huge machine function... a symbiotic-like correspondence that prevents our solar system and that of all the others out their, from being anything other than chaos... and according to a recent article on the Science Channel, even those distant systems that are light years away, seem to affect other systems in ways quite similar to how clouds pull one another together and break apart.

:oops: Ok... pardon my inability to be more "to the point here" but with all this evidence and the antiquity tied to Astrology as well as the deeper, lesser known esoteric meanings behind certain exoteric terms... well, it would seem that "science" (a.k.a. the cynically inclined) are missing sight of the big elephant in the middle of the room... "Something" is there! It was understood by less technically advanced cultures way before we became "life" but we've become so arrogant with our "intellect" that we refuse to accept that those folks... our distant ancestors... weren't as ignorant or stupid as we keep wanting them to be. Much of the reason they didn't evolve on the social-technological level centers on a handful of situations, the deliberate suppression of science by certain massive cults being one.

Mysticism speaks of the "Keys to Enlightenment"... an especially Gnostic idea that can be found in most all mystical traditions, but being a term used by Gnostics is what makes it so important; the gnostics almost always spoke in a kind of dual-reality. Those who did not know or understand the Gnostic/Mystic "language" would perceive an entirely different, though related idea than those "initiated" into the mysteries. In this case the "Keys" related to specific modes of discipline and understanding -- "Science". Traditionally there are 7 such keys but each hey plays host to 7 other keys so it can prove rather daunting. The point is however, one finds enlightenment via education and expansion of knowledge... which is the first step only. The important second step, is experiencing life from that knowledge so as to obtain "wisdom"... something modern science seems to have sat to the side.

:oops: I've rambles sufficiently... I just hope I'm making some sense. It's hard to connect all the dots in such limited space. :?
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Re: What is the mechanism in Astrology and patterns above ch

Postby ProfWag » 21 Jul 2010, 03:05

Craig Browning wrote:
ProfWag wrote:
stevetrueblue wrote:The moon lifts oceans, and we are water thus may be influenced in some imperceptible way.

Sorry, but science does not agree with this statement.


Since when? Every science book I've even seen as well as films on the topic of tides says that the moon creates the ebb and flow. when did that change?
space. :?

Perhaps you read the original statement wrong?
The primary difference is that the oceans are external forces and water making up the human body is internal.
A woman holding a baby exerts 12 million times more energy on the child than the moon. Think about it, if the moon had an effect, wouldn't we all be off-balance twice a day? Oh, wait a minute... ;-)
Here is one article that supports my statement: http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=3426758&page=1
Here is another: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... _moon.html
There are many, many more.
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Re: What is the mechanism in Astrology and patterns above ch

Postby Craig Browning » 21 Jul 2010, 23:25

I know what you're saying but if you look at the subtle you can see that yes, we do have mood swings or energy changes "twice a day" and that's if we're "normal" and healthy. In some cases these fluxes are more extreme than in others, the majority of us simply shrug our shoulders (metaphorically) and move on with life... it's no big deal. But it's been known for eons that we go through these daily shifts, which is why the majority of the world's cultures set aside specific times of day (which parallel tide shifts) for down time (Siestas). I doubt "they" know why they do this, only that a common point each day brings about an energy shift... modern/Western society now chooses energy drinks to overcome that daily slump rather than the more innate "shut-down and get quiet" mode.

I cannot properly explain things when it comes to scientific jargon and Ivy league linguistics, I'm a bit more simple and down to earth with things. However, I'm confident that science can and eventually will prove not just the existence of these various subtle influences, but how they do affect all living things.

For several months now I've been developing my own Psychic Services web site (KarmicKruzes.org) in which I touch upon these subtle influences created by the planets and how it is part of the mechanics that "programs" each person at birth, with certain characteristics that connect to their past life karma. My theories and philosophy have a great deal of support within the metaphysical community and bring three key "oracles" together as part of the karmic programming process; astrology, numerology and palmistry (there are others that could be considered but these are the primaries). In each instance we are speaking of subtle influences, but imprints that I honestly believe, science will some day (not too far off on the horizon) prove out... it's already given significant support towards aspects of Palmistry and like it or not, Astrology.
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Re: What is the mechanism in Astrology and patterns above ch

Postby ProfWag » 22 Jul 2010, 09:03

So just to clarify that as I said (and you disagreed), science does not agree with the notion that the moon affects people because we are made of water.
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Re: What is the mechanism in Astrology and patterns above ch

Postby Craig Browning » 22 Jul 2010, 22:55

ProfWag wrote:So just to clarify that as I said (and you disagreed), science does not agree with the notion that the moon affects people because we are made of water.


Not to argue, but there are factions in science that would argue the other way on that idea and for many reasons that are known of. Please don't ask me to run around and find you links or books titles, I don't keep such things on hand and I simply don't have the time (or desire) to go out and dig it all up. I can only say that certain elements of accredited academics, does hold to the older contention that we are affected by the lunar ebbs & flows albeit "negligible" by conventional standards. What I'm saying is that these subtle influences sustain Astrological theory and related findings. It's not a complete disagreement, just a parrying move ;)
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Re: What is the mechanism in Astrology and patterns above ch

Postby ProfWag » 22 Jul 2010, 23:42

As you mentioned, the moon's effect is extremely negligable, but even if it wasn't, the effects would be physical rather than mental so it wouldn't have any effect on personality (i.e. astrology). At least, that's what I'm reading.
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Re: What is the mechanism in Astrology and patterns above ch

Postby NinjaPuppy » 23 Jul 2010, 00:55

ProfWag wrote:As you mentioned, the moon's effect is extremely negligable, but even if it wasn't, the effects would be physical rather than mental so it wouldn't have any effect on personality (i.e. astrology). At least, that's what I'm reading.

Oh yeah??? How would a skeptic explain PMS? Just physical and it doesn't affect women mentally? :lol:
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Re: What is the mechanism in Astrology and patterns above ch

Postby ProfWag » 23 Jul 2010, 04:11

NinjaPuppy wrote:
ProfWag wrote:As you mentioned, the moon's effect is extremely negligable, but even if it wasn't, the effects would be physical rather than mental so it wouldn't have any effect on personality (i.e. astrology). At least, that's what I'm reading.

Oh yeah??? How would a skeptic explain PMS? Just physical and it doesn't affect women mentally? :lol:

Well, if you want me to explain it, all I can say that PMS is probably the only thing I believe is actually "paranormal."
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Re: What is the mechanism in Astrology and patterns above ch

Postby multisenserealism » 18 Sep 2012, 05:34

Having contemplated astrology seriously for around 25 years, and interpreting hundreds of charts for friends, acquaintances, and strangers, I can say with certainty that whether it is the information derived from analyzing the chart or the intuitive insight arising from interpreting it, astrology is not nothing.

I started looking at astrology with the assumption that it was complete nonsense. For that to be true, however, it would have to contain only casual correspondences that could be part of the expected range of coincidence. That was not the case. Although there is a degree of ambiguity in a thorough analysis of an astrological chart, because there are several layers of influence which determine each others prominence (like colors that look much brighter when they are adjacent to each other than when they are by themselves), once you are familiar with how to weigh the conflicts, it becomes possible to read a fairly clear and meaningful narrative. It's even clearer when you look at the charts of families. If someone wanted to do a real proof-of-astrology statistical project, I would look to correlations among members of the same immediate family. I have never seen a family whose charts were not powerfully intertwined in extremely sophisticated ways.

The problem with proving astrology is the same problem with proving consciousness - it just doesn't work like that. Subjectivity is not a mechanism of objects, it is the opposite of that. Experiences develop through time like a movie or a play. Stories with characters and themes, repeating archetypes. You don't ask 'how did Batman get into Christian Bale if he was in a comic strip before'.

Astrology may have nothing to do with stars. Planetology is more accurate, or really, archetypal planetology, because what we are looking at is not the hands of a clock with turn gears that we are helplessly strapped to, but themes and influences which have their season. We get hungry at lunch time because of many different factors, subjective and objective, momentary and long term - not because the hands of a clock have magical powers to cause lunch time. The fact remains however, that we can use a clock to tell us what time most people are likely to eat lunch, and then decide for ourselves if the want to go along with that or have lunch at another time.

The bottom line is that all of our clocks and calendars are models or maps. Astrology is just a more precise map, and as a result, time is not collapsed into a one dimensional continuum of before and after, but a complex and literate aesthetic of multiple qualities of times which translate differently from different perspectives (since we emerge at birth our of this context).

If you consider that the relations of the orbiting planets have been around much longer than life on Earth, it doesn't seem so absurd to imagine that these rhythms could be of particular familiarity to everything that has come out of the Earth. On their own scale, the planets are solar neighbors, separated by only a vacuum. Like seasonal fruit and vintage wine, time and place play a key role in the quality of what can be produced. Can a pineapple be grown in the Arctic? It is the same, in a more subtle way, with human identity. Individuals are a mere crest of a wave on the surface of a vast ocean of potential themes. The angles of the planets in relation to each other are only the exterior view of a process of storytelling which we have reduced, in this digital age, to mere duration...which itself is part of a large cycle of epistemology.

It's ok if people don't want to believe in astrology. It's like handedness or gender preference. Not everyone has to know or care about it. It's maybe better that way. For most people, astrology is only going to confuse them and make them look outside themselves to answer questions which might be better left to their own inner wisdom. If you are going to mess with astrology, make sure it's something that really interests you and not just a way to make you feel special. Do a hundred charts of people you know. Then you won't be bothered by people who insist that astrology is idiotic. Of course it seems idiotic. Consciousness would seem idiotic if we weren't experiencing it ourselves first hand.

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