Pam Reynolds' NDE during flat brainline, Irrefutable!

[Scepcop]

The skeptics can't refute this one, so they resort to the lamest excuses yet again, rather than simply choosing to opening up their minds a bit.

[sunset]

I remember reading about Pam's account a few year ago and it fascinated me then Just as it does now!

[NinjaPuppy]

Yes, this case is hard to argue.

[brett]

well they would have a hard time arguing that one as the evidence is so strong

a little story : we got called to a road crash one morning involving an oil tanker and a car , on arrival the car was almost completely under the tanker and i was tasked with crawling underneath to start jacking operations - well we dragged the car clear and proceeded to start extracting the driver when i realised it was a fellow radio ham of my acquaintance - during the extraction - the doctor on scene asked me to monitor the ecg /eeg ? machine and tell him if it went flat line - it did twice and both times frantic efforts where made and managed to revive the casualty - eventually we got him out and he was transported to hospital where he made a good recovery

i went to see him in hospital and he told me that at some stage during the rescue - he fond himself outside his body - looking at the operation to free him from a ways back - he described the tools we where using ( most people not connected with the fire service would have been unfamiliar with them ) - told me that I was watching the monitor ( even if he had of been able to see or hear in the car , he would not have been able to see who was doing the job because i was behind him and saying nothing unless necessary as instructed ) - but the REAL clincher was that he related a conversation of 2 officers stood some way away at the time - and i did ask one of them if what he told me was correct - the officer confirmed that the conversation had been reported correctly - though to this day does not know how i knew this ( and would never have believed me so just as well probably )

anyways "m"** survived for a couple of years after the accident but seemed a changed man - sadly he passed away with cancer ( triggered by the crash ?? - guess we will never know )

as always make of this what you will - but i swear to you its true

** name concealed out of respect to family and the man himself

NB: in most cases the people we used to deal with where strangers - so the chance of any follow up is rare - but just occasionally you do come across the odd case where you can do so - most people don't even bother to thank you for your efforts but this leads me to another small tale that may make you think ;

basically we got called to a articulated lorry that had overturned - the driver was trapped for nearly six hours - but walked away with a broken wrist from a crash that should by all logic ,have killed him instantly ( hell of a mess ) - but he did and came to the station to thank the crew ( very good of him ) , i was then o.i.c of the station and he commented that he should have been dead and could not understand how he had gotten out so lightly - but like i said to him " it was just NOT your day to die sir " - he looked at me oddly , considering for a moment , and agreed i must be right .

i have seen many crashes where people by all logic should have passed -( but survived horrific crashes - sometimes virtually unharmed ) and a few where they did pass away ,but logic was again absent as the forces and circumstances involved ,in no way should of lead to death but did - i suspect any fire fighter with some time in the job could relate similar things

so i do believe we DO all have a day to go - and if its NOT your day - you ain't going ( or have to come back from ...............?? ) whether you like it or not

[ProfWag]

Naw, it's not irrefutable.

[sunset]

Thanks for your story Brett! Yeah, it was nice of that other Guy to come and thank you all in person, it's a pity they all didn't that you and your Colleges have helped, it would be my first priority!

[brett]

Naw, it's not irrefutable.

and so your explanation for these events , whilst monitored and confirmed by health professionals and expert surgeons would be what then prof ?? given that according to all the machines and all the doctors there was zero brain activity - so she could hardly have been "imagining " it as to do that you need a brain that is active - or is there something TO the theory that the brain and mind ARE separate entities ??

just saying its not irrefutable is easy - would you care to expound a bit on your dismissal of this event please ??

i am sure others here as I would , are MOST interested to hear your expert opinion on this

[brett]

Thanks for your story Brett! Yeah, it was nice of that other Guy to come and thank you all in person, it's a pity they all didn't that you and your Colleges have helped, it would be my first priority!

quite a rare event - and as you say made our efforts worth while - but like many of the fine emergency services round the world , we frequently just got taken for granted a lot of the time - and on a couple of occasions got slagged off for "letting their house burn down " when their negligence ( stupidity ) caused the fire in the first place - ya just CANT win with some people

[Eteponge]

The problems with the Pam Reynolds case that Skeptics bring up is that the conversations she brought up as remembering during the operation actually took place *long before* she was placed in the "flatline stand still state" (with flatline brainwaves). She was merely under anesthesia at the time she recalled those conversations, not flatlined yet for another two hours.

Also, they like to point out that when Pam Reynolds described the surgical instrument, even though she described it as looking like an electric toothbrush (accurate) she also got some details of what it looked like *wrong* as well.

Example:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... s.html#pam

[ProfWag]

I will post my rebuttal in a little while, but let me add here that just as skeptics incorrectly use the term "impossible," non-skeptics incorrectly use the term "irrefutable."
Note that I am NOT a scientist, but scientifically speaking, nothing is "impossible." The mathematical term is "zero probability."