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Re: Greetings

Postby ciscop » 31 Jul 2009, 14:04

Scepcop wrote:Congrats on being published in Polish. Lots of people in Europe are interested in this kind of stuff too.

Do you think palmistry is an exact science or subject to interpretation from one's higher self?

BTW, it would be neat if someone could channel Carl Sagan and have him tell the skeptics "We were all wrong about the Afterlife!" Or even channel one of the deceased CSICOP members.


Indeed!!
he should appear to stephen hawkins and tell him
theres no black holes
and then dissapear

or better yet
on tv
so there´s no need to debate
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Greetings

Postby Scepcop » 31 Jul 2009, 23:40

ciscop wrote:
Scepcop wrote:Congrats on being published in Polish. Lots of people in Europe are interested in this kind of stuff too.

Do you think palmistry is an exact science or subject to interpretation from one's higher self?

BTW, it would be neat if someone could channel Carl Sagan and have him tell the skeptics "We were all wrong about the Afterlife!" Or even channel one of the deceased CSICOP members.


Indeed!!
he should appear to stephen hawkins and tell him
theres no black holes
and then dissapear

or better yet
on tv
so there´s no need to debate


lol get real though, if a ghost appeared on national TV, people would say it was faked or that someone hoaxed it using CGI. lol

And even if a ghost appeared to a skeptic to tell him that he was wrong, the skeptic would either forget the experience, or even if he told it, the other skeptics would just tell him that he was hallucinating. lol

Think about it. If Randi for instance, had a genuine paranormal experience that he couldn't explain, do you think he'd talk about it publicly? No way. He would have too much to lose, including his fans, his reputation, and his funding from supporters. His whole career would be jeopardized, so to speak. There's no way he would ever admit it. Understand that people have vested interests to protect. On the other hand, laypeople like me have nothing to lose by telling the truth.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Greetings

Postby Scepcop » 01 Aug 2009, 01:51

Jon Saint Germain wrote:Scepcop,

I think the term "Palmistry" is an umbrella covering a vast number of disciplines and collections of lore encompassing fact, science, superstition, folklore, psychology, genetic research, interpretive skill and medical diagnosis. I've studied and continue to study all of these aspects of this misunderstood field, which is as noted, actually many fields. :D In its classical form, it's a philosophical system based on Greco-Roman archetypes used by reader/participant to explore inquiries of a spiritual or psychological nature.

This is why the strictly rational, materialist analysis of Palmistry fails to grasp the essence of the craft and it's often dismissed as fortune telling or cold reading. Scientific methods simply cannot be applied to a philosophical system. You can't "prove" theism, Buddhism, ontology, existentialism, Palmistry, Astrology etc because these are philosophical systems designed for making inquiries of a spiritual nature, not for forming, testing, and falsifying hypotheses about the physical universe.

This misunderstanding, more than anything else--attempting to apply the scientific method to what are in essence philosophical systems--is the source of so much confusion (and often bitter debate) between the practitioners of these systems and the skeptics.

JSG


Hi JSG,
That makes a lot of sense. I heard it said that science can never really find the spirit, because to find it, you have to "become spirit" first, since it is related to the nonphysical.

So do you mean that with palmistry, there aren't definite rules as to what the lines mean according to their location, length, depth, curve, intersections, etc? If so, why do so many palmistry books have specific rules on those things?

I have seen some palmistry readers not even really read the lines on your palm. They simply hold your hand and get impressions from the "akashic records" from the astral planes, and are often very accurate, even about your deep dark secrets.

Is that what you do too?

Also, since you do hypnotism, I was wondering something. Back in my senior year of high school, our psychology teacher brought in a professional hypnotist once. He selected some volunteers from the class (I didn't cause I was too scared to) and I think he took them somewhere for a while, brought them back, and then with each one of them standing, he yelled out "SLEEP" in a loud forceful tone while next to them. When he did so, they fell into an unconscious trance into his arms. He caught them and put them on the floor. While they were on the floor, their eyes were fluttering fast for some reason. Most of the volunteers fell into this trance, but a few weren't able to. While they were under trance, he was able to make them do several simple things and movements. I wasn't sure if they were really unconscious or just pretending.

After they woke up, he was able to put them into a trance again by simply snapping his fingers. It seemed like an act, after all how can you control people's consciousness by simply snapping your fingers, but it's hard to believe that students would volunteer so defraud the class.

So I've always wondered, how did he do this? How is it that easy to make someone unconscious? I don't think it would work on me cause I'm too strong willed, but then again, I didn't volunteer. Can you really make someone fall asleep on command like that? Even by just snapping your fingers? What did he do to them exactly when he took them out of the room for a while?

Any idea or explanation?

Also, he hypnotized himself and put a needle through his hand in the area of the skin between the thumb and forefinger, the base of the "V" so to speak. The needle went through and came out the other side. Everyone gasped. It looked very real. Was that a trick or did he really push a needle through his hand? Why didn't he bleed when he did that? Any idea?

This happened back in 1992 and I've always been curious about it.

Thanks.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Greetings

Postby ciscop » 01 Aug 2009, 02:20

you know
you are right
i wouldnt believe a tv ghost
would be believing that what criss angel does is true

michael shermer
actually has a chapter in which he relates his own paranormal experience
an alien abduction
the book was.. why people believe weird things i think
and shermer is the editor of skeptic magazine
so i dont know

i think it would be fun to see one of the top guys on skepticism changing gears.. i would love to see dawkins, shermer or randi becoming a scientologist.. that would be hilarious
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Greetings

Postby Jon Saint Germain » 04 Aug 2009, 00:26

Too many questions. :D

I have tested many of the assumptions of Classical Palmistry over thirty years of practice, and do read by the "rules." The ones that work. I've tried to separate the good techniques from superstition. So I don't, for example, predict how long someone will live based on the length of the Venusian line. I do use the Greco-Roman archetypes and Jungian aspects, as well as my own Buddhist practice, during a session. Which can get very interesting. I've written three large volumes on my researches which have been well-received. Unfortunately, Llewellyn targets an audience with an adolescent literacy level, so I was unable to write on the intellectual depth I desired .

Dr. Gary Schwartz at one time offered to do a study with me testing under controlled conditions some of my conclusions, but I don't think anything came of it. He has been too involved in his medium research. I've also done a very fascinating study on my own involving over forty sets of twins to test the theory that the dominant hand changes over time to reflect changes in personality. Guess what? It does.

The people who hold someone's hand and draw upon their own clairvoyance are not really palm readers . :D They're clairvoyants. I wish they wouldn't call themselves palm readers. Oh Well.

Discussing Criss Angel on this forum lowers the tone of the event; like bringing in a birthday party clown to a formal dinner party, don't you think? :D :evil:

JSG
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Re: Greetings

Postby Jon Saint Germain » 04 Aug 2009, 00:45

Re: Hypnotism:

What you described is pretty standard hypnotic suggestion. I have many hours of footage of myself doing much the same thing; that is, having a group of hypnotized subjects on stage going in and out of a deep hypnotic state on command. Any good hypnotist learns to do this. It has nothing to do with how strong-willed the subject is but on the willingness of the subject to enter the hypnotic state. You're only fooling yourself if you think you're immune to suggestion.

If you want to see something powerful, check out a strong evangelical faith healer knock people out with the power of suggestion. I wanted to see if I could do it, and by god I could. I put sown two front rows of people by passing my hand over them. I thought I could start a church if I wanted to. Too bad I have a conscious. :evil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lvU-DislkI&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_h_oK5Tp64&feature=related

I don't push needles through my hand because of the risk of nerve damage though but it is indeed possible to control both pain and to a degree bleeding.
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Re: Greetings

Postby The Warrigal » 04 Aug 2009, 12:51

Belated greetings Jon.

This is a most interesting thread and you have offered some thought provoking posts.

I delved but little into palmistry but have experimented seriously with several different forms of cartomancy.

While most card reading systems leave me singularly unimpressed, I have frequently been startled by the accuracy of Catherine Cover Sabine's "K-Code" system which she published in the 1960's in her book - The Cybernetic ESP Breakthrough.

Inspired by Mrs.Sabine's work, I have over the years formulated several card reading codes of my own each designed to cover a specific area of interest.

A am researcher, - (albeit a humble amateur), - not a fortune teller, so I have never charged money for my readings.

Nevertheless, I have had so much positive feedback that I persist with this line of investigation.

I look foreward to reading more of your contributions.
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Re: Greetings

Postby ciscop » 04 Aug 2009, 14:00

john
thanks for sharing the benny hinn video
it was hilarious
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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