Major General says Pentagon was not hit by plane!

[NinjaPuppy]

BTW, just because you don't own the land, doesn't mean you don't own the building. Just sayin'.....

[stundie]

As far as I'm aware, Larry leased the buildings but the land belongs to the PA.

One of the stipulations was that if anything happened to the buildings, Larry could had overall say on what could be built on the land. I think the NYPA are being fined by Silverstein because he is waiting for them to do something with the land so he can start building a 3rd tower, which he has to do by 2013.

From what I read this morning, the land is owned by the State of NY and the Port Authority leases it from them. Then the PA has the right to lease it ( or sub-lease) as they see fit. Usually if you hold a land lease and/or building lease and something happens to the current structure you usually have contingencies or stipulations for such things as written into the original lease agreement. It seems that Mr. Silverstein and the PA have been at odds on many points regarding these issues since 9/11. It's hard to predict who has what legal rights concerning this issue without review of all of the original lease agreements, insurance docs, etc. Since none of us here are privy to that private information, we might need to agree to disagree on this whole issue. Real estate is funny that way.

As I said previously NinjaPuppy, whether Larry owns the buildings/land, whether it was worth more than it was insured or not is interesting to know (Especially if you are into real estate such as yourself!) but irrelevant to what Nostradamus claimed, which is that Larry lost billions.

I won't hold my breath waiting for Nostradamus to provide evidence or retract his claim, otherwise I might pass out!

But it highlights that fake debunkers are only to happy to peddle what appears to be fiction in substitute for a reality which they find too uncomfortable.

Cheers

Stundie

[NinjaPuppy]

I had thought about giving Larry a call this morning to ask him myself but with it being Hannukah and all, I decided he's probably not in his office this week and has better things to do than chat with me about his corporate real estate ventures.

[Nostradamus]

Sorry I've unable to respond. I am preoccupied with work. Until I can continue stundie could you please tell me where I said:

Are you going to show us some evidence that Larry lost billions at any point?

All I said was he lost money.

[stundie]

Sorry I've unable to respond. I am preoccupied with work. Until I can continue stundie could you please tell me where I said:

Are you going to show us some evidence that Larry lost billions at any point?

All I said was he lost money.

You didn't just claim he lost money.....You stated!!

He has a rebuilding cost of $6B and insurance of $4 to $5B. He pays rent to the Port Authority over $100M each year and pulls in no rental income. Not sounding like its in the black.

So according to you, Larry either lost....

$6 Billion - $4 Billion = $2 Billion or $6 Billion - $5 Billion = $1 Billion

Plus the $100 million per year, since 2001, that's 8 years, so another $800 million!

Either way you look at it, you believe that Larry lost $1.8 - $2.8 billion.

Something of an expert at faith based assumptions and beliefs aren't you?

So either retract your statement and apologise for your disinformation like a person with honesty and integrity would do, or back up your statement that Larry lost billions or even millions, because as far as I can tell, he's made a hell of a lot of money.

Unless you do what those fake groupthinking debunkers do at the JREF Forum do and skirt around the issue with smatterings of denial and ignorance?

[Nostradamus]

Stundie, I'm back after a short trip to the land of work.

It is disgustingly clear that you don't understand a huge number of things.

Two issues right off the bat are:
1. I never said billions lost. That is your conclusion, not mine.
2. And you haven't got a clue as to what a claim is.

You keep mentioning JREF. Is that because they crushed you. Is that why it sounds like bad feelings?

You continue to ask me to retract a statement. What statement? You asked me to prove he lost billions. That was never my claim. (And please take the time to understand what that means.)

I want an apology from you for outright lying about what I said.

[stundie]

Stundie, I'm back after a short trip to the land of work.

Makes a change from your scheduled trip to the land of your imagination.

It is disgustingly clear that you don't understand a huge number of things.

It is disgustingly clear you are avoiding what I asked you, to provide evidence that Larry lost money?

Yet here we are, 6 pages of dodging because you would rather do that than admit you were wrong.

Still not sure if you were misinformed or whether you lied, either way it appears you are still failing.

Two issues right off the bat are:
1. I never said billions lost. That is your conclusion, not mine.

No it is not my conclusion, you claimed Larry lost money and proceeded to pull some figures out of the depths of your fantasy which amounts to him losing 1 to 2 billion, plus his $100 million per year.

You never said the words "billions lost!" you implied it!

2. And you haven't got a clue as to what a claim is.

What a pathetic argument.

Your claim that I do not have a clue as to what a claim is patently false, unless you are denying that this is not a claim? "Silverman lost money in the deal."

No, no, it's definetly a claim and you definetly made that claim here. viewtopic.php?f=12&t=754&start=0#p8084

You keep mentioning JREF. Is that because they crushed you. Is that why it sounds like bad feelings?

I mention JREF because you argue like one of their groupthinkers who studies their religion, you employ all the same tactics! Just like a gullible worshipper of St Mark "Gravy" Roberts! lol

Oh and as for being crushed by JREF, infact it was the total opposite! The mods banned me to save your lord and saviour Gravy from a serious whipping he was receiving! lol

You continue to ask me to retract a statement. What statement?

That Larry lost money..........lol

You asked me to prove he lost billions. That was never my claim. (And please take the time to understand what that means.)

Whether you think Larry lost hundreds, thousands, millions, or billions, either back up your claim or retract it and apologise for lying.

I want an apology from you for outright lying about what I said.

Where did I lie about what you said? lol You said he lost money, you provided the figures not me.

Maybe if you got your figures right in the 1st place instead of making up another one of your patently false claims that the rebuilind was going to cost $6 billion (Where did that figure come from? lol) then I wouldn't have said billions.

Shall we just cut the crap and say you were caught lying but aren't man enough to admit it?? lol

Just like a psuedoskeptical JREF groupthink lemming! lol

[Nostradamus]

No it is not my conclusion, you claimed Larry lost money and proceeded to pull some figures out of the depths of your fantasy which amounts to him losing 1 to 2 billion, plus his $100 million per year.

This is a childish response. My numbers and your conclusion as to the meaning of those numbers.

You never said the words "billions lost!" you implied it!

Again a childish response it. That is your failed conclusion, not mine.

Oh and as for being crushed by JREF, infact it was the total opposite! The mods banned me to save your lord and saviour Gravy from a serious whipping he was receiving! lol

So you violated the rules of the forum and were expelled. Gravy has talent and you have none. He is smart - the obvious opposite of you. He tells the truth and you have repeatedly lied here.

Well boo hoo you big baby. You are now employing the same lying tactics here aren't you? You have repeatedly lied about what I said. You have drawn conclusions and have stated that I said your failed conclusions. So apologize. Be a big boy and tell all that you have failed to put words into people's mouths.

[Nostradamus]

Shall we just cut the crap and say you were caught lying but aren't man enough to admit it??

It's obvious to all who the blatant liar is here. Time to fess up.

[stundie]

No it is not my conclusion, you claimed Larry lost money and proceeded to pull some figures out of the depths of your fantasy which amounts to him losing 1 to 2 billion, plus his $100 million per year.

This is a childish response. My numbers and your conclusion as to the meaning of those numbers.

It's not my conclusion, you provided the numbers, you provided the conclusion before you provided the numbers!! lol

All this dancing and prancing around the fact you were wrong!! lol

You never said the words "billions lost!" you implied it!

Again a childish response it. That is your failed conclusion, not mine.

I never concluded Larry lost money!! lol

Oh and as for being crushed by JREF, infact it was the total opposite! The mods banned me to save your lord and saviour Gravy from a serious whipping he was receiving! lol

So you violated the rules of the forum and were expelled.

While you are in the habit of making false claims, why don't you tell us and provide the evidence that I violated the forum rules and was expelled? lol

It is quite obvious that you will delve into the depths of your imagination to create your own version of reality, which is about as real as Narnia! lol

Gravy has talent and you have none. He is smart - the obvious opposite of you. He tells the truth and you have repeatedly lied here.

Ask Gravy and the JREF Forum about his truth telling when he lied about the EPA annoucement??

Well boo hoo you big baby.

No tears here, I'm not the one who lied and is trying to weasel out of it. lol

You are now employing the same lying tactics here aren't you?

Considering you are a follower of the religion known as JREF Groupthink, doublethink will make you totally oblivious to the irony.

You have repeatedly lied about what I said.

No I haven't! lol

You have drawn conclusions and have stated that I said your failed conclusions.

Still waiting for you to prove that larry lost money?? lol

Either that or just admit you lied?? lol

So apologize. Be a big boy and tell all that you have failed to put words into people's mouths.

I did't put the words "Larry lost money" into your mouth. You did that all by yourself.

And I'm not apologising for using the word billions. You should check your figures before you start pimping them as fact! lol

Anyway, waiting for you to provide evidence or apologise instead of ducking and diving in JREF Groupthink lemming fashion! lol

[stundie]

Shall we just cut the crap and say you were caught lying but aren't man enough to admit it??

It's obvious to all who the blatant liar is here. Time to fess up.

OK Nostradamus!!

Yeah, I'm very sorry for lying about Larry Silverstein. Larry lost money, I was wrong.

Larry won 4.55 billion in insurance, the cost of rebuildiing 1 WTC is 3.2 billion.

I'm very sorry for my maths being so poor that I thought it resulted in a gain for him, not a loss as you have shown us.

I'm also very sorry for providing evidence from the NYPA that it is going to cost 3.2 billion to rebuild, I mean what do they know? I'm so sorry for using their figure when it's going to costs 6 billion to rebuild becuase you told me, therefore it is true.

Yeah and I'm also very, very sorry for engaging with a "master debater" such as yourself, minus the de! lol

I really should know better!!

[Nostradamus]

Thanks for the nonsense response.

I did look up the JREF and searched for posts by stundie and if you were the one posting over there I have to say I see little difference in posts from 3 years ago to these recent posts.

You lie. You repeatedly lie. And I don't see any point in dealing with a pernicious liar like you.

I did not show that Silverstein had a loss. That again is your brain dead conclusion.

A simple example comes from the June 30, 2008 Wall Street Journal:

NEW YORK -- The rebuilding of the World Trade Center, destroyed in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, won't be completed until the middle of the next decade, and will cost as much as $3 billion more than planned, according to people familiar with the matter.

[stundie]

Thanks for the nonsense response.

Well I've been waiting for you to produce a coherent response when I challenged you on your false claim on the very 1st page of this thread, so I'm just playing you at your own game.

I did look up the JREF and searched for posts by stundie and if you were the one posting over there I have to say I see little difference in posts from 3 years ago to these recent posts.

You lie. You repeatedly lie. And I don't see any point in dealing with a pernicious liar like you.

Care to mention what I'm suppose to have lied about??

I mean the lurkers here might enjoy another one of your fantasy filled claims, like when you claimed Larry lost money??

I did not show that Silverstein had a loss.

Just because you are suffering from raging bouts of denial and ignorance, let me take the pleasure of pointing it out too you again.

He has a rebuilding cost of $6B and insurance of $4 to $5B. He pays rent to the Port Authority over $100M each year and pulls in no rental income. Not sounding like its in the black.

And you have the cheek to call me a liar! I mean you really aren't fooling anyone other than yourself.

That again is your brain dead conclusion.

hahaha!! I never concluded Larry lost money! That is your brain dead conclusion in the face of facts and figures which prove otherwise.

So are you going to admit that Larry didn't lose money as you claimed or are you going to continue on your journey of self deception. lol

A simple example comes from the June 30, 2008 Wall Street Journal:

NEW YORK -- The rebuilding of the World Trade Center, destroyed in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, won't be completed until the middle of the next decade, and will cost as much as $3 billion more than planned, according to people familiar with the matter.

1st thing, you claimed that it was costing 6 billion, where did you get that figure from? lol

Lets guess your imagination right?? lol

When I said it was going to cost 3 billion, you said I had the wrong figures and then when I showed the figure 3.2 billion. You eventually produce an article strating the 3 billion I had already said! Talk about obfuscating!! lol

Rather than just be hoenst and admit you got it wrong, you keep being pedantic and highlighting how foolish you are by believing in something which you have no evidence for, you believe Larry lost money!! lol There is another group who follow faith based thinking, they are called Christians, you might have heard of them?

Psst!!! Hint: it's a religion.

Even when there is evidence to the contrary, you play a piss poor game of dodge and weave because it sickens you to be wrong. Well that just show us all the type of character you are, where you can't admit you were wrong. Oh well! Let the self deception continue. lol

All it does is show us your bias when you are suppose to be a skeptic! lol

Another Religous JREF Groupthining Lemming!! lol

[Nostradamus]

When I said it was going to cost 3 billion, you said I had the wrong figures and then when I showed the figure 3.2 billion. You eventually produce an article strating the 3 billion I had already said! Talk about obfuscating!!

Reading and comprehension is a skill you lack. The numbers are not the same number.

[Nostradamus]

Thanks for more brain dead conclusion