Greetings all! My virgin post...

[Arouet]

It's easy to say that mystics experience parallel universes but how do you test it? We know, from hooking up monks to fMRIs while meditating that they can get into a state where they shut down activity to the part of the brain that makes you feel connected to your body, hence the feeling of being at one with the universe. What reason do we have to believe these mystics are experiencing anything other than a pretty cool and awesome production of the brain? Serious question: how can we tell the difference? I'm not questioning that they are experiencing something: I'm asking about what methods we can use to verify what the reality is of the experience.

As for entanglement: from what I understand, physicists do not believe that it is possible to transfer information through entanglement: do you have knowledge otherwise?

Is there a single piece of credible evidence supporting the existence of these reptilians? Or the fact that they feed off human emotion? Really? Human emotion? Icke calls it low vibration? What does that even mean? Why can't these incredibly sophisticated reptillians figure out a way to produce low energy vibrations in much more efficient ways? It makes very little sense.

And can you honestly tell me that you don't find Icke terribly manipulative in his presentations? Appealing to fear and emotion all over the place. Offering bubble-gum psychology and conspiracy theory. These evil reptilians are behind all the evil in the world and feeding off our emotions but all we have to do is love one another and they get defeated? These guys control time and space and our political system and yet don't do anything to prevent Icke from unveiling their dastardly plan for the world? Over and over again?

Just because there are parrallel universes (maybe) does that entail a mechanism for jumping between them? I mean, there are ostensibly and infinite number of them, right? Are the lizard people controlling all of them? Or just ours. Seems to be a big project.

Do you really think its fear of ridicule that stops scientists from supporting his theories? Or is it the complete lack of evidence. And please don't tell me that the fact that some ancient civilizations worshiped reptiles is evidence of this. All sorts or animals have been worshiped over the centuries. What about all the belief systems out there that had nothing to do with reptiles?

I'm ranting a bit, because I still don't see why Icke should be given even the slightest bit of credibility. You don't need to give me 400 pages, but can you give even a couple reasons for why he is likely right on all his stuff?

[The_Grand_Illusion]

[Arouet]

[Eteponge]

People are STILL bringing up the looong debunked "Satanic Ritual Abuse" craze of the 1980s? Time for education ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse

Significant Highlights ...

Satanic ritual abuse (SRA, sometimes known as ritual abuse, ritualistic abuse, organised abuse, sadistic ritual abuse and other variants) refers to a moral panic that originated in the United States in the 1980s, spreading throughout the country and eventually to many parts of the world, before subsiding in the late 1990s. Allegations of SRA involved reports of physical and sexual abuse of individuals in the context of occult or Satanic rituals. At its most extreme definition, SRA involved a worldwide conspiracy involving the wealthy and powerful of the world elite in which children were abducted or bred for sacrifices, pornography and prostitution.

The panic was based on reports from children and adults using therapeutic and questioning techniques now considered illegitimate, with initial publicity generated by the discredited autobiography Michelle Remembers, and sustained and popularized by the McMartin preschool trial. Testimonials, symptom lists, rumors and techniques to investigate or uncover memories of SRA were disseminated through professional, popular and religious conferences, as well as through the attention of talk shows, sustaining and spreading the moral panic further throughout the United States and beyond. In some cases allegations resulted in criminal trials with varying results; after seven years in court, the McMartin trial resulted in no convictions for any of the accused, while other cases resulted in lengthy sentences. Scholarly interest in the topic slowly built, eventually resulting in the conclusion that the phenomenon was a moral panic. Official investigations produced no evidence of conspiracies or the slaughter of thousands of babies and children in bloody sacrifices. In the latter half of the 1990s interest in SRA declined and skepticism became the default position, with only a minority of believers giving any credence to the existence of SRA.

The underpinnings for the contemporary moral panic were found in a rise of five factors in the years leading up to the 1980s: The establishment of Fundamentalist Christianity and political organization of the Moral Majority; the rise of the Anti-cult movement which spread ideas of abusive cults kidnapping and brainwashing children and teens; the appearance of the Church of Satan and other explicitly Satanist groups that added a kernel of truth to the existence of Satanic cults; the appearance of the child abuse industry and a group of professionals dedicated to the protection of children; and the popularization of posttraumatic stress disorder, repressed memory and corresponding survivor movement.

Michelle Remembers and the McMartin preschool trial:

In 1980 the book, Michelle Remembers, written by Michelle Smith and husband/psychiatrist Lawrence Pazder, was published. The book, now discredited, was written as an autobiography and was the first known claim linking the abuse of children with Satanic rituals. (Pazder was also the individual responsible for coining the term "ritual abuse"). It provided a model for allegations of SRA that followed.

Michelle Remembers, along with others portrayed as survivor stories, are suspected to have influenced later allegations of SRA. And some have argued the book was a causal factor in the later epidemic of SRA allegations.

Despite the lack of evidence and inconsistencies surrounding the allegations made in Michelle Remembers, there are still people who believe that Smith’s claims of abuse are the literal truth and that there is a vast, yet secretive worldwide conspiracy of intergenerational satanic worshipers abusing and murdering children and adults.

The book's contents have been unsubstantiated by any evidence beyond Smith's testimony. Despite this, the book inspired copy-cat accusations throughout the world, against in many cases members of the Church of Satan, non-satanic occultists, and others with no connection to the occult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Remembers

In 1983 charges were laid in the McMartin preschool trial, a major case in California, which received attention throughout the United States, and contained allegations of Satanic ritual abuse. The case caused tremendous polarization in how to interpret the evidence that was available, and shortly after more than 100 preschools across the country had similar sensationalist allegations eagerly and uncritically reported by the press. Throughout the trial the media coverage against the defendants (Peggy McMartin and Ray Buckey) was unrelentingly negative, focusing only on statements by the prosecution and continuing throughout the trial. Smith and other alleged survivors met with parents involved in the trial, and it is believed that they influenced testimony against the accused.

Kee MacFarlane, a social worker employed by the Children's Institute International, developed a new way to interrogate children with anatomically correct dolls and tested their use in assisting disclosures of abuse with the McMartin children. After asking the children to point to on the dolls the places they had allegedly been touched and asking leading questions, she diagnosed sexual abuse in virtually all McMartin children, and coerced disclosures using lengthy interviews which rewarded discussions of abuse and punished denials; testimony during the trial was often contradictory and vague on all details except for the assertion that the abuse had occurred. Though the initial charges featured allegations of Satanic abuse and a vast conspiracy, these features were dropped relatively early in the trial and prosecution continued only for non-ritual allegations of child abuse against only two individuals. After three years of testimony, McMartin and Buckey were acquitted on 52 of 65 counts, and the jury was deadlocked on the remaining 13 charges against Buckey, with 11 of 13 jurors choosing not guilty. Buckey was re-charged and two years later released without conviction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial

This is the bizarre, nonsensical mess that was reported by these children during this trail ...

Some of the accusations were described as "bizarre", overlapping with accusations that mirrored the just-starting satanic ritual abuse panic. It was alleged that, in addition to having been sexually abused, they saw witches fly, traveled in a hot-air balloon, and were taken through underground tunnels. When shown a series of photographs by Danny Davis, the McMartins' lawyer, one child identified actor Chuck Norris as one of the abusers.

Some of the abuse was alleged to have occurred in secret tunnels beneath the school. Several investigations turned up evidence of old buildings on the site and other debris from before the school was built, but no evidence of any secret chambers was found. There were claims of orgies at car washes and airports, and of children being flushed down toilets to secret rooms where they would be abused, then cleaned up and presented back to their unsuspecting parents. Some children said they were made to play a game called "Naked Movie Star" in which they were photographed nude. During the trial, testimony from the children stated that the naked movie star game was actually a rhyming taunt used to tease other children -- "What you say is what you are, you're a naked movie star," -- and had nothing to do with having naked pictures taken.

Johnson, who made the initial allegations, made bizarre and impossible statements about Raymond Buckey, including that he could fly. Though the prosecution asserted Johnson's mental illness was caused by the events of the trial, Johnson had admitted to them that she was mentally ill beforehand. Evidence of Johnson's mental illness was withheld from the defense for three years, and when provided were in the form of sanitized reports that excluded Johnson's statements, at the order of the prosecution. One of the original prosecutors, Glenn Stevens, left the case and stated that other prosecutors had withheld evidence from the defense, including the information that Johnson's son was unable to identify Ray Buckey in a series of photographs. Stevens also accused Robert Philibosian, the deputy district attorney on the case, of lying and withholding evidence from the court and defense lawyers in order to keep the Buckeys in jail and prevent access to exonerating evidence.

Religious roots and secularization:

Initial accusations were made in the context of the rising political power of conservative Christianity within the United States, and religious fundamentalists were enthusiastic in promoting rumors of SRA. Psychotherapists who were actively Christian began advocating for the diagnosis of dissociative identity disorder (DID) and soon after accounts similar to Michelle Remembers began to appear, with some therapists believing the alters of some patients were the result of demonic possession. Protestantism was instrumental in starting, spreading and maintaining rumours through sermons about the dangers of SRA, lectures by purported experts and prayer sessions, including showings of the 1987 Geraldo Rivera television special. Secular proponents began to appear, and child protection workers became significantly involved. Law enforcement trainers, many themselves strongly religious, became strong promoters of the reality of the claims and became self-described "experts" on the topic. Their involvement in child sexual abuse cases produced more allegations of SRA, adding credibility to phenomenon. As the explanations for SRA were distanced from evangelical Christianity and into the realm of "survivor" groups, the motivations ascribed to purported Satanists shifted from combating a religious nemesis to mind control and abuse as an end to itself. Clinicians, psychotherapists and social workers documented clients alleging histories of SRA though the claims of therapists were unsubstantiated beyond the testimonies of their clients.

And from all of this silliness, you get the Satanic Ritual Abuse scare. Brains are good, let's learn to use them people.

[Eteponge]

As for David Icke, I'm sorry, but if someone claims that the Queen of England is a Reptilian Shapeshifting MIB Disinfo Alien from Zeta Reticuli, I'm gonna have to seriously question his claims, requiring needing actual solid evidence to support it.

Most of his information is of a conspiratorial nature, where he claims to have "heard this and heard that from various people and sources" and to have "seen this and seen that" and to have been "shown this and shown that", BUT, if there is no solid evidence (not suggestive subjective conjecture, but solid evidence) of these wild claims of world leaders being shapeshifting reptilians, then the sky is the limit, you can believe anything.

Believers will claim that it is all covered up so well by the illuminati or whomever and that is the reason no evidence can be found, so we "just gotta believe!" Skeptics will claim there is no evidence simply because it IS bullshit, and that to believe it "just cause you gotta believe!" is to basically say the sky is the limit, you can believe anything outlandish just because "it's covered up!"

With conspiracies in particular, there are some which have very interesting suggestive evidence in favor of them, and that's fascinating to me. Such as JFK, and Maryilyn Monroe, those to me are believable conspiracies, with some reasonable suggestive evidence in favor. BUT, the whole "all world leaders are illuminati reptilian shapeshifting MIB Disinfo Aliens from zeta reticuli!" thing, you gotta ask for solid evidence for a claim like that.

It's like the Satanic Ritual Abuse hysteria. Lots of claims, lots of dubious witnesses eventually discredited and exposed as frauds, and NO DOCUMENTED CASES that actually support it. The origins being a discredited book, a pre-school trail later discredited, and fundamentalist christian hysteria. I mean, sure, there have been teenage cultists using devil symbols who have been hopped up on drugs and killed people and put pentagrams on them. There are isolated types of incidents like that. But claiming a global satanic conspiracy where the pope and all polititians are abusing kids in front of satanic altars, is just "out there".

[Scepcop]

Eteponge,
Why are you using Wikipedia as a source? Wikipedia is ALWAYS in favor of the official version of everything. It is against all forms of paranormal and conspiracy claims. Not the most objective and unbiased source.

You can't base all your beliefs on what Wikipedia claims.

Have you looked into the witnesses like Cathy O'Brien and Arizona Wilder? They are very sincere witnesses. Listen to their testimonies on YouTube. They claim to have experienced the Satanic ritual abuse of the elite and seem very sincere.



If you think that, then you've never listened to him. Where did you get that straw man?

How many times do I have to tell everyone, if you only listen to what others say about David Icke, you will think he is nuts. But if you listen to David Icke himself for a few hours in his best lectures, you will think he is one of the most brilliant people in the world (even if he's not right about everything). I can promise you that. I'm tired of repeating this.

The problem is, you dimiss him without listening to his information. The more you listen to him, the more respect and admiration you will have for him. You obviously have NOT Eteponge, otherwise you wouldn't say that Icke says "You just gotta believe." Icke NEVER says that. He always says that you should NOT believe what you hear, even from him, and instead check it out and think for yourself.

You see how already you have misinformation about him that is in error?

Icke is not the only one about the Reptilian thing. Many other researchers come to the same conclusion. Jordan Maxwell did too, but he doesn't like to talk about it much cause he knows it invites ridicule.

But Eteponge, how can you know 100 percent for sure that the reptilian thing isn't true? You can't know for sure can you?

Anyway, listen to Icke's lecture at Oxford here, Eteponge, for two hours.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 106638208#

After this, you will NOT think he is nuts anymore. But you gotta listen to it, not make excuses and listen to wikipedia's shit. Wikipedia is 100 percent pro-establishment and 100 percent pro-official version of everything.

[Arouet]

[Scepcop]

Btw Eteponge,
Even if David Icke is wrong about the reptilian thing, there are still many important things that he is definitely right about. If you listen to him, you will see. I'd say that at least half of what he says is true.

The only people who think he's nuts are people who have never really listened to him for long. Remember you can't base your opinion off of one article on wikipedia and dismiss him. You gotta dig deeper. That's how truth works. I'm sure you know that. Same with UFO's.

He connects a lot of dots other people don't. When he opens your mind, you will be in awe.

Anyway, here is a short summary video of Annunaki and Reptilian history that shows the reptile/dragon/annunaki/serpent myth of creation in many ancient cultures all around the world. It connects some dots spanning across history.



It may be right or it may not be right. But it's just something to consider. Don't reject it outright just because it's different from your own paradigm of reality.

[really?]

[really?]

[The_Grand_Illusion]

[Scepcop]

[Scepcop]

[Scepcop]

[Arouet]