Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ talk about Uri Geller's powers

[Scepcop]

[ciscop]

i guess you are talking about
misdirection and showmanship

cause apart from those 2, uri geller doesnt have any powers

here is a magician reproducing ALL of uri geller tricks
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/user/lovasip#p/u/3/9mtprdOP_3A[/youtube]

[really?]

In 1973, Carson had a legendary run-in with popular psychic Uri Geller when he invited Geller to appear on his show. Carson, an experienced stage magician, wanted a neutral demonstration of Geller's alleged abilities, so, at the advice of his friend and fellow magician James Randi, he gave Geller several spoons out of his desk drawer and asked him to bend them with his psychic powers. Geller proved unable, and his appearance on The Tonight Show has since been regarded as the beginning of Geller's fall from glory. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_C...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNKmhv9uoiQ

What surprises me most about the people that think Geller has special powers is this. In all that time he's not once made any attempt to find an explanation for this ability. Has never bent a portion of the spoon that would be more difficult such as the bowl of the spoon bent inside out or the short axis of the handle bent. In all demonstrations the spoons have been bent along the long axis the weakest part. Those facts seem to escape the eye witnesses.
As for Targ and Puthoff they are credulous of Geller and bias in there own studies.

[Indigo Child]

Uri Gellar has been scientifically tested, and it has been
demonstrated conclusively in these experiments that he did
indeed mentally bend spoons, read minds etc

The later demonstration of his powers may or may not be genuine,
it is possible Uri Geller felt in order to preserve his fame, he needed
to cheat a bit. However, there is no conclusive proof he has ever cheated.

The Tonight show was not a demonstration of inability, but a demonstration
of a reluctance to show ability. Understandly so, because Uri Geller was staged
by Randi and the host, and if he was a real psychic he would have picked that up,
interfering with his abilty.

In so called exposures of showing him cheating by pre-bending, none of this is
apparent from watching the video itself. In the scientific tests the bent objects
were later examined scientifically and it was shown that no motor force was used
to bend the objects.

[really?]

[Indigo Child]

Really,

If you are going to think critically about this, you should be able
to separate Uri Geller as a test subject by scientists like Pulthoff
and Targ, and Uri Geller as a TV celeb demonstrating things on show.
It is possible, as I said that Uri Geller does cheat to preserve his star,
but as far the scientific experiments go, the controls were vigorous and
several experiments were conducted which were able to rule out basic
things like magic tricks to sophisticated international intelligence scams.

The spoons were examined by sophisticated microscopes to show evidence
of any force being applied on them. There was no evidence, on the
contrary evidence showed that the spoons melted at a molecular level.

You seem to have faith in science and its vigorous scientific method, but
your faith seems to vanish with these experiments on Uri Geller. Can you explain
this inconsistency?

Regarding the so-called debunkling of Uri Geller. Nothing of the sort has been done,
all Randi has done is showed how similar feats Geller does can be done using magic tricks
such as concealed magnets(compass effect), concealed mirrors(mind reading) and pre-bending
of spoons and keys. This does not in fact prove that is how Geller did it, and nor are Randi
suggested reproductions of the same quality as Geller does them. For instance, in the compass
effect Randi accuses him of using a concealed magnet in a thump tip. The only proof that this
happened is speculation of an unusual hand gesture he does. Randi demonstration shows a little
magnet attached to the edge of his palm can replicate the effect. However, Randi puts his palm
very close to the compass, whereas Geller has his palm about 20cm above the compass, which
would mean the magnet would not have enough field strength to affect the compass.
Secondly, the compass moves immediately when Randi puts his palm over it, because that is exactly how it
would behave if a magnet is placed above it. In contrast, in Gellers demonstration there is a delay
before the compasss moves, which is impossible if there was indeed a magnet over it.

I am not going to rule out trickery though. It is still possible, because in the end all I am seeing is a TV demonstration,
which has little to no controls. I only accept controlled scientific experiments as conclusive.

[really?]

[Nostradamus]

[NinjaPuppy]

[ProfWag]

[Indigo Child]

Progwag and Really,

Watch these scientifically controlled experiments by SRI:

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1225

It is clear the controls were rigorous, and Uri Geller succeeded to
demonstrate his abilities under these conditions.Most of the experiments
done on him were double blind and involved meticulous data collection methods
and sophisticated analysis.

Why would Geller want to submit himself to the tests of some amateuer, atheist and hate
organization like JREF, when he is already succeeded at the tests of professional scientists at one of
the most prestigious scientific institutes in the world. Randi has no credentials, sorry.

[ProfWag]

[Indigo Child]

I am going to return you your F grade for your ridiculous counter explanation for the hidden
object experiments. You said any magician would be able to detect the micro movement of the steel
ball when the experimenter picked one out? That kind of magical hypersensitivity you claim magicians have
is a claim in it own right? Do you have proof of the magicans who have done this? Are you making it up? I watched
the video again, and at no single instance, did the experimenter disturb the other cans when eliminating
a can Geller told him to. Geller is barely even looking at the cans when the experimenter removes it.

Moreover, the hidden object experiment was also done with water in the can, and a permenant magnet.
Geller still succeeded.

Stop spouting nonsense about the controls not being sufficient. This was a double blind experiment, the object
was hidden and then randomized by a randomizer. None of the experiments knew where the ball was. They attempted
the experiments with various different target objects.

Finally, I find it interesting how you have failed to explain the other experiments. In the hidden drawing experiment,
15 different drawing were placed inside a safe in a double sealed opaque envelope of which none of the researchers
knew the code, and required signatures from both researchers to get it opened. Geller got everysingle one right
(his off target one, was very similar as well). Some of these were double blind.

In the double blind die experiment, a die inside a metal box die, both provided by SRI is shaken inside, nobody
knowing which face the dice is showing. Geller gets it right 8/8 for a probability score of 1 in a million. It cannot
get anymore controlled than this.

In the first PK experiment with the electric scales and 1g weight. The controls applied were covering the scales with
an alumnium can, then covering that with a glass cylinder to eliminate air currents. Then artefacts readings were taken
of various stimuli such tapping the glass cylinder, tapping the table, kicking the table, jumping up and down, a day long recording
with bringing in static eletricity dishcharge and with magnets. The results show that Geller produces completely different artefacts
and was able to increase and decrease the weight on the scales. He did not at any point touch the jar.

In the second PK experiment with the magnometer, Geller was able to produce a magnetic field comparable to that of the Earth's
magnetic field.

In the unconfirmed PK experiments of spoon and ring bending, the controls applied were mirros above and below his hands and
filming from every angle. The ring was manufactured at SRI and was measured to require 150lb force to bend it.

The controls were very rigorous and professional, in front of which Randi's experiments are amateuer.

[really?]

[ProfWag]