SCEPCOP Forum

http://edificial.blogspot.com/2006/08/c ... vlina.html

As for the rest of it, I have no idea whether people actually believe what he's selling. I think he's just tapping into the self-help business model - get rich by telling everyone how rich you already are. It's a self-reinforcing scheme where no one can prove you wrong unless they take the time to actually investigate your history. But most people don't and thus they fork over their money giving him the riches he claims to have made on his own.

Same story, new guru... I was there with Louise Hay and Marianne Williamson's rise as "cult leaders" (quite literally). Every generation has such characters, most of whom rely on the same general bag of linguistic tricks pulled from one or both key bags; the Intellectualism side of things in which psychology, human behavior, etc. are all part of "the gospel" or, the Mysticism side in which various "surface" concepts tied to the occult and/or Eastern Mysticism serve as the foundation.

What's very interesting about the Self-Help types is that a good 85% of what they pitch is nearly word for word what Dale Carnegie was preaching decades ago and his institute still makes available at a fraction of the cost all these charismatic egos demand. But the New Age type are plagiarists too, in that much of what they hype stems from a handful of key sources (outside possible scripture type material), the two primaries being the correspondence materials sold by the DeLawrence Publishing Co. in the 19th Century and for those pushing "Lost Knowledge from Ancient Times" you have the Atlantean & Lemurian connections brought out by James Churchwood (and actually seeing a quasi-revival in recently years via legit studies). I should point out that these two particular "discoveries" were made by my ex as she sought to validate the claims of certain Wiccan groups of being from a very "ancient" lineage, even having Books of Shadow composed in Egyptian and Phonecian texts that, upon deeper examination, lent upon the improper translations of Wallace Budge and some of his contemporaries... not exactly the kind of thing I'd call "convenient" when trying to prove you are part of a very, very ancient order that actually rules over much of the world ala Illuminati.

It never changes, no one wants it to

Yeah but the new self help guru combines New Age ideas and spirituality along with getting rich, a great package.

What do you think of Wayne Dyer? People like him are wonderful and charismatic. And they seem sincere. But they only speak to crowds of rich people, as though they only cater to rich New Agers. How can that be spiritual? Plus their solutions to things "such as thoughts/attitude creates reality" only work for simple problems, not complex ones. And they never define how powerful thoughts are, but preach it as though it were all limiting.

They never address why the Titanic sunk if thoughts are all powerful, then it wouldn't have sunk cause everyone thought it was "unsinkable".

Wayne Dyer never addresses or explains this. He only says that "some people think my lectures are stupid, but that's ok, cause I'm not attached to others' opinions of me, for you can't control your reputation, only your character". That may be true, but that doesn't address the flaws in what he teaches.

But Dyer has a wonderful inspiring personality and voice that is soothing to hear, as well as uplifting. That's why he sells. He borrows a lot of quotes from mystics and philosophers too.

An important part of the self help gurus has to be repeat customers. Instead of drumming up new customers all of the times you get people to toss more money in your direction. A lot of what they say has to be not memorable or not clear. It's a stage show where they want to leave with the felling of bot being satiated. You come back for more and more.

I listen to about 5 minutes of Robbins in a TV interview and I am reminded of the old Yankees in Vermont listening to a political speech. One says to the other with a puzzled look and asks, "What is he saying?" His friend replies, "He don't say."

What you guys are describing are con artists. Not all self help gurus are cons.

Have you listened to Wayne Dyer? He is definitely sincere and his colleagues say that he is rare in that he actually lives and practices what he preaches. He does not live a double life. There is genuine passion and love within him. That much is obvious.

The best actor in the world can only fake things to a certain extent. No one can get away with lying forever.

Some are genuinely trying to help people out there. It's just that they are catering to only the middle to upper class usually, so they can make more money.

Not all preachers are bad too. Some really believe what they preach and want to help others or serve God. Not all are using deliberate brainwashing tactics.

Some of people out there doing self-help are social workers that believe in making a difference in their lives. Most get lousy pay, bad working conditions, and situations where they often watch helplessly. But they do make a difference.

I keep trying to tell you ProfWag, it's all schtick. Some are better than others and some do have some 'insight' that can't really be explained by scientific means. Finding the ones with insight is the hard part.

Craig - Once again... EXCELLENT post!

Succinct and well written Craig.