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A very intriguing paranormal case

Postby Eteponge » 29 Oct 2010, 23:32

I recently came across a most intriguing account documented by paranormal researcher Paul Eno, in which two shaman allegedly traveled into an alternate history, and dragged back two people who had died in our reality but were still alive in this alternate history. These two individuals brought here couldn't adjust to our reality, because as they came from an alternate history, their memories were different. The young boy for example recognized his parents, but didn't recognize some of his siblings and neighbors, etc. It didn't turn out well for either of them ...

http://www.newenglandghosts.com/backfromthedead.htm

"On two occasions in the late 1970s, when my cases were nudging me closer and closer to multiverse thinking, I encountered two shamans of two different traditions in two different parts of the world. Both said that they had known other shamans, many years before, who had literally gone into "the other world" and brought back people who had died -- bodies and all. According to these two men, who were very reluctant to talk about this, the shamans had performed these deeds against their better judgment and only after being harassed, then highly paid, by the grieving families. Allegedly, one shaman, in Australia, had brought back a young boy nearly a year after his death.

The two men I spoke with insisted that these events involved neither reincarnation nor resurrection. The two subjects were literally dragged out of other worlds where they had never died. Fascinatingly, both men also said that the shamans who did it soon regretted it.

The young boy who was brought back knew his parents but not some of his siblings or neighbors, I was told. According to the story, he never again "fit" into the community and ended up insane. The other returner, a dead man in his 20s, the father of a family, seemed confused and frightened, then tried to fit in, later running off into the forest, never to return. The man who told me this story, a boy at the time of the incident, actually claimed to have seen this returner.

Given what appears to be the nature of the multiverse, there is no reason whatsoever to believe that "returns" such as these are impossible. People disappear into thin air relatively often, sometimes in front of witnesses. Where -- or when -- do they go? All those "spirit guides" or guardians we hear tell of and sometimes feel ourselves -- could some of them be shamans from parallel worlds, trying to reach us?

Similarly, mysterious people appear out of thin air from time to time, not knowing where they are. On a few occasions, they have carried passports and money from countries that never existed, spoken no known language and/or worn clothes of no known fabric."


I tried contacting him on his Facebook to ask for more indepth information on these two cases, but I never received a response.

Has anyone ever heard of any purported cases like this? Even in folklore? I find it to be very fascinating, even if it turns out to be little more than folklore.
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Re: A very intriguing paranormal case

Postby derrida » 29 Oct 2010, 23:40

WOW!!!
thats really a great story!
i would love to go and see that movie

how did you found this?
do you know how the guys supposedly travel back in time?
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Re: A very intriguing paranormal case

Postby Eteponge » 29 Oct 2010, 23:58

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Re: A very intriguing paranormal case

Postby Arouet » 30 Oct 2010, 00:02

Actually, the TV show Fringe deals with exactly this topic although they use technology and vast sums of energy.

Fun show though...
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Re: A very intriguing paranormal case

Postby caniswalensis » 30 Oct 2010, 00:19

I gotta say, while I do not see any compelling reason to believe in stories like this, I absoultly LOVE them!

I am all geeked out thinking about it right now. :)

Thanks for posting this.

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Re: A very intriguing paranormal case

Postby Eteponge » 30 Oct 2010, 00:19

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Re: A very intriguing paranormal case

Postby Arouet » 30 Oct 2010, 00:34

Yeah, I was a big Sliders fan myself back in the day!
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Re: A very intriguing paranormal case

Postby Eteponge » 30 Oct 2010, 04:22

Paul Eno just responded to me ...

"Hi, Travis -- When I talk about that on the air I always qualify it by saying that it was heard from "a friend of a friend" 31 years ago in both cases. However, these two guys came across as absolutely solid in their belief of it, both said they had seen the returners with their own eyes and had known the respective Aboriginal and Cree shamans in question. What's in that article is all I know (except for the precise location in Quebec) All I can say is that those two conversations were at the root of my "awakening" to the multiverse perspective, and as far as I can see it has never steered me wrong."
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Re: A very intriguing paranormal case

Postby Arouet » 30 Oct 2010, 04:42

I am so not qualified to get into arguments about physics, but even accepting the multiverse hypothesis as true, my gut tells me that you'd need really massive amounts of energy to pass from one reality to another. How would this be controlled (science fiction aside). How would it be directed? When between universes, what would the effect of gravity be? Would one get torn apart by gravitational forces that are not completely in sink?

I'm really out of my baliwick, but even accepting parrallel universes, its a far cry from being able to access them. A
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Re: A very intriguing paranormal case

Postby Twain Shakespeare » 30 Oct 2010, 14:46

Arouet, This is my baliwick. This is the most irrational set of things I have experienced, so far out of normal discourse it almost never comes up in conversation.
I was raised to “believe” intensely in the 19th century mechanistic version of Calvinist predestination. Personal experience taught me that praying to G-d to “make it didn't happen” didn't work.
But at some point in my childhood I discovered the quantum mechanical theory of the multiverse, and, with great relief, I started intensely “believing” in that.
Then I started experiencing it. I tripped and broke my nose, and immediately in my perception went back two seconds, tripped and caught myself. For about a year I remembered another suicide experience every day. I found it slightly more useful in the sense it made me feel a little better to believe I was surviving suicide, rather than heading towards it.
I would see news stories, such as one concerning the death of Fred McMurray, which I would discuss with people, and later learn they did not happen. In the case of McMurray, the people who had discussed it with me also did not remember. This makes an Orwellian rewrite less likely.
I have had so many experiences that are accountable for by the the theory that there are leaks between universes through which I, at least, travel, that I have come to “believe” it in almost the sense you use belief, as something that has experientially passed the bar of extraordinary evidence, especially since last year, when a friend witnessed me flatten to 2 dimensions and “ripple” while I felt what felt like the most intense quantum shift I have experienced aside from the two times I have died and found that nobody noticed.
So, I confess to the utter insanity of believing this with such a degree of conviction that you can come up with no explanation that is more useful for me this one, as it accounts for things the simple informational universe theory does not. (Okay, maybe you can. I'd be interested)
As a skeptic, I realize these claims are unfalsifiable, and by stating them, I leave most people with no alternative than to conclude that I am either some combination of foolish, deluded, and/or deceitful, (I admit these first two are more probable than the multiverse, but they are neither as useful to me, nor do they make me feel as good) or the universe is an inexplicable place.
Twain, on behalf of Shakespeare
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Re: A very intriguing paranormal case

Postby Arouet » 30 Oct 2010, 17:41

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Re: A very intriguing paranormal case

Postby Twain Shakespeare » 31 Oct 2010, 02:14

Granted about the difficulty of discussing. Unless I have darn good reason, I do not talk about it. I take it at face value. My main alternative hypothesis is that this is the way right brain has made sense of things, although that still leaves the things somewhat unclassified. It is probable to me that this is merely personal delusion. Its main effect is too make me less likely to assume people are outright lieing when they tell me bizaare experiences. So, back to a more skeptical self-presentation. Just thought you'd like to have the info in your anecdotal file. Peace, and thanx for the response :)
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Re: A very intriguing paranormal case

Postby Eteponge » 31 Oct 2010, 04:21

I've been talking some more with Paul Eno, he also said this ...

"Both shamans I spoke with were clear that the guys who did this ruled the day! As I said, the families gave them no peace, and paid them a pile of dough, before they agreed to do it. That fact (assuming it's true as told) indicates that the families must have known it could be done -- thereby suggesting earlier precedents. Of course, shamanic work goes back tens of thousands of years."

I also brought up how the Shaman in this anecdote misused this gift, stealing those two young men away from their real families to place them in an unfamiliar world with alternate versions of their loved ones, I suggested that the only way that situation could have potentially worked out, was if the Shaman had tapped into a reality where the child had lost both of his parents (as here it was the parents who lost the child), and a reality where the young man had lost his wife and kids (as here it was the wife and kids who lost the young man). In that scenario, both parties from both worlds are mutually grieving, and them reunited together might have taken better hold, as them leaving that other world would not have been as hard, if they suffered a mutual loss. If the reality they were taken from was very similar to our own, it would have been even better, as not much memory variance.

Something tells me that (if true) these Shaman probably could not fine tune their journey, and simply tapped into a random alternate history in the multiverse, grabbed the first alternate versions of those individuals they came across, without any thought of them or their situation or consequences. Hence, why they deeply regretted it afterwards.

Paul Eno responded ...

"I'm not sure it could have worked out in any scenario. It almost seems as though multiverse interaction of any kind needs to be spontaneous to do any good. If it's planned and executed, it seems likely to get messed up - as though there's some missing ingredient."
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Re: A very intriguing paranormal case

Postby Scepcop » 31 Oct 2010, 04:23

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: A very intriguing paranormal case

Postby Eteponge » 01 Nov 2010, 15:05

Scepcop: I have him added on my Facebook if you want to add him, he's got some very interesting theories on paranormal topics. He's one of the old school researchers, started in the 1960s and 1970s. He's the first paranormal researcher I've come across that shares my own views on the multiverse.
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