debunking badastronomy
07 May 2010, 23:30
Hi everyone. My name is David and I agree with Scepcop and people like Jarrah White that the apollo missions were a hoax. There are some websites like badastronomy.com that try to counter the hoax claims point by point. Does anyone know of any sites that give counter arguments to these point by point anti-hoax arguments? --David
Re: debunking badastronomy
07 May 2010, 23:48
Re: debunking badastronomy
07 May 2010, 23:53
Re: debunking badastronomy
08 May 2010, 00:52
Hi ProfWag.
I don't believe "the apollo missions were a hoax" with 100% certainty either, since so much about these missions are hard to find out about. But some of my reasons for doubting that these missions were genuine are...
It's suspicious that what many believe is "man's greatest achievement" is something that was only witnessed by 3 astronauts at a time. This alleged feat of orbiting the moon, making a moon landing, hanging out on the moon, and re-connecting with the space craft, etc. and using only what we know about on Earth to practice for such a feat doesn't (and this sounds unscientific but...) feel right to me.
Looking at the photos and videos of Apollo and comparing it with movies like 2001, my impression is that the "producer" of the Apollo "movies" is presenting a cultural idea about what space travel is supposed to look like, not to mention Jarrah's video that shows the moonwalk effect can be made exactly with wires and slow motion.
Rockets strike me as being more like a weapon being improvised as a form of transportation.
How could it be that today's manned space craft go only 400 miles above the Earth max--something is odd about going 600 times further 40 years ago and no visible attempt to break 400 miles since then.
I've had personal encounters with NASA people who seem hidden and secretive and not encouraging of people asking them questions--let me know if you want specific examples.
Ways to test whether the moon missions were possible are mysteriously not available. For instance, Saturn V blueprint is lost, so is telemetry data, moon buggy, etc. I could name several other reasons for doubting, but will invite feedback on these first few.
David
I don't believe "the apollo missions were a hoax" with 100% certainty either, since so much about these missions are hard to find out about. But some of my reasons for doubting that these missions were genuine are...
It's suspicious that what many believe is "man's greatest achievement" is something that was only witnessed by 3 astronauts at a time. This alleged feat of orbiting the moon, making a moon landing, hanging out on the moon, and re-connecting with the space craft, etc. and using only what we know about on Earth to practice for such a feat doesn't (and this sounds unscientific but...) feel right to me.
Looking at the photos and videos of Apollo and comparing it with movies like 2001, my impression is that the "producer" of the Apollo "movies" is presenting a cultural idea about what space travel is supposed to look like, not to mention Jarrah's video that shows the moonwalk effect can be made exactly with wires and slow motion.
Rockets strike me as being more like a weapon being improvised as a form of transportation.
How could it be that today's manned space craft go only 400 miles above the Earth max--something is odd about going 600 times further 40 years ago and no visible attempt to break 400 miles since then.
I've had personal encounters with NASA people who seem hidden and secretive and not encouraging of people asking them questions--let me know if you want specific examples.
Ways to test whether the moon missions were possible are mysteriously not available. For instance, Saturn V blueprint is lost, so is telemetry data, moon buggy, etc. I could name several other reasons for doubting, but will invite feedback on these first few.
David
Re: debunking badastronomy
08 May 2010, 01:12
Last edited by Craig Browning on 08 May 2010, 01:22, edited 1 time in total.
Re: debunking badastronomy
08 May 2010, 01:22
The little I've seen of Jarrah White's videos showed me that he really doesn't know his material.
The reason we are in low earth orbit efforts right now is that the spacecraft of choice has been the shuttle and it can't go to the moon despite the efforts of Hollywood to show otherwise. The idea has been to put people into a long term residence in space.
I've met people from NASA and NASA contractors as well. They work under NDAs, non-disclosure agreements. These are normal, everyday business contracts.
The moon buggies remained on the moon. They were not brought back. One of the buggies that did not go to the moon is on display at the Smithsonian. The moon mission gets tested all of the time. There are reflectors on the moon that have been used for years to measure the distance to the moon. That data has been used to obtain very accurate information on the moon's orbit.
Anyways, definitely a hearty welcome. Its excellent to get someone here that has spent more time looking over the hoax claims that I have.
The reason we are in low earth orbit efforts right now is that the spacecraft of choice has been the shuttle and it can't go to the moon despite the efforts of Hollywood to show otherwise. The idea has been to put people into a long term residence in space.
I've met people from NASA and NASA contractors as well. They work under NDAs, non-disclosure agreements. These are normal, everyday business contracts.
The moon buggies remained on the moon. They were not brought back. One of the buggies that did not go to the moon is on display at the Smithsonian. The moon mission gets tested all of the time. There are reflectors on the moon that have been used for years to measure the distance to the moon. That data has been used to obtain very accurate information on the moon's orbit.
Anyways, definitely a hearty welcome. Its excellent to get someone here that has spent more time looking over the hoax claims that I have.
Re: debunking badastronomy
08 May 2010, 03:09
Just because things can be somewhat replicated doesn't mean the original wasn't factual. If Hollywood can make a gorilla suit look like Bigfoot, does that mean the original Bigfoot doesn't exist? No, not at all. (Though there are other reasons why it doesn't, but that's a different thread.)
As for NASA folks not telling the whole story, well, yes, that's probably true. However, keep in mind that people in positions like that have security clearances. Saying something you're not supposed to, regardless of how innocent the question may sound, requires thought before speaking and saying something that can land you in jail.
Ask Craig about his Navy days or ask me about my Iraq days. I'm fairly certain that we don't have a lot of information that would be considered earth shattering (I know I don't at least), but we'd still have to think before we speak.
Nothing all that unusual.
I am anxious to hear more about your moon landing hoax theories.
There are some pretty sharp people on here that would probably be able to explain many of the questions you have, whether it supports a conspiracy or not. I think we all want the truth since it is out there...
As for NASA folks not telling the whole story, well, yes, that's probably true. However, keep in mind that people in positions like that have security clearances. Saying something you're not supposed to, regardless of how innocent the question may sound, requires thought before speaking and saying something that can land you in jail.
Ask Craig about his Navy days or ask me about my Iraq days. I'm fairly certain that we don't have a lot of information that would be considered earth shattering (I know I don't at least), but we'd still have to think before we speak.
Nothing all that unusual.
I am anxious to hear more about your moon landing hoax theories.
There are some pretty sharp people on here that would probably be able to explain many of the questions you have, whether it supports a conspiracy or not. I think we all want the truth since it is out there...
Re: debunking badastronomy
08 May 2010, 03:49
I personally feel that the most elegant refutation of moon landing hoax accusations is the Cold War itself. Russia (USSR) was tracking every single move we were doing, with radios, telemetry, telescopes, and probably a handful of spies in NASA. Do you think that if the Communist Soviet Union had any opportunity, whatsoever, to expose NASA as a giant fraud, they wouldn't jump on it immediately?
To say that the moon landings were a hoax is to directly imply that Big Red was pulling punches on the USA.
Of course, you could say that lizards just orchestrated the whole thing, Cold War and all....
One of my school's alumni, George M Low, was the manager of the Apollo missions, and as such, there is a small museum dedicated to him in the building, also dedicated to him. Quite the hullabaloo. I'm pretty sure we have moon rocks, too.
It's not just 3 people that experienced the moon landings. Hundreds (thousands?) of engineers and scientists had to design all the rockets, spacecraft, landers, suits, everything really, plus all the management and higher ups, and the people controlling the funding. ALL of those people would have to keep quiet.
Plus, we definitely built the Saturn V rockets and blasted them into orbit, those certainly weren't faked - all that effort, just to go around the moon and come back? It's like that episode of Tiny Toons where they go to Happy World Land just to ride the monorail. Yeah, okay.
It's honestly pretty ridiculous once you start looking at all the details carefully.
To say that the moon landings were a hoax is to directly imply that Big Red was pulling punches on the USA.
Of course, you could say that lizards just orchestrated the whole thing, Cold War and all....
One of my school's alumni, George M Low, was the manager of the Apollo missions, and as such, there is a small museum dedicated to him in the building, also dedicated to him. Quite the hullabaloo. I'm pretty sure we have moon rocks, too.
It's not just 3 people that experienced the moon landings. Hundreds (thousands?) of engineers and scientists had to design all the rockets, spacecraft, landers, suits, everything really, plus all the management and higher ups, and the people controlling the funding. ALL of those people would have to keep quiet.
Plus, we definitely built the Saturn V rockets and blasted them into orbit, those certainly weren't faked - all that effort, just to go around the moon and come back? It's like that episode of Tiny Toons where they go to Happy World Land just to ride the monorail. Yeah, okay.
It's honestly pretty ridiculous once you start looking at all the details carefully.
Re: debunking badastronomy
08 May 2010, 03:58
Great points one and all there, Nuke (Hope you don't mind me calling you that. Nothing personal, just easier to write...)
It would have only taken two people to expose the truth out of the thousands of people that worked on the moon landing development. I'd say it only takes one person, but then you have Bob Lazar and, well, ...
It would have only taken two people to expose the truth out of the thousands of people that worked on the moon landing development. I'd say it only takes one person, but then you have Bob Lazar and, well, ...
Re: debunking badastronomy
08 May 2010, 04:16
Hahah, actually I kinda like Nuke. Reminds me of Duke Nukem. I'VE GOT BALLS OF STEEL. STEEL. STEEL. Ahem. Sorry.
XD
Oh, Bob Lazar....I bought some pitch blende from unitednuclear a few weeks back
See the thing is, you have to take the total number of people involved, and then you have to factor in the rate of schizophrenia among people of that population, which is about 1/100 in normal people, let's say 1000 people involved, so 10 schizophrenics in that group, give or take. Most will be on medication, but, a few will slip through the cracks, and we would expect purely by change to have 1-3 people who worked on the program totally making crap up.
XD
Oh, Bob Lazar....I bought some pitch blende from unitednuclear a few weeks back
See the thing is, you have to take the total number of people involved, and then you have to factor in the rate of schizophrenia among people of that population, which is about 1/100 in normal people, let's say 1000 people involved, so 10 schizophrenics in that group, give or take. Most will be on medication, but, a few will slip through the cracks, and we would expect purely by change to have 1-3 people who worked on the program totally making crap up.
Re: debunking badastronomy
11 May 2010, 10:06
It's always you youngsters which I assuming David is it seems that tend to embrace the notion that the Moon landings are suspect. That's tantamount to disbelieving 2 atomic bombs were used during WW II. NucleicAcid offers the best counter argument with those irascible Pinko Commies as they were affectionately known as at the time. The USSR was no friend to the USA. They would most certainly let the world know the truth if we hoaxed these landings.