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The Great Wolf Messing!

Discussions about Psychics and Psychic Phenomena, Extra Sensory Perception, Telepathy, Psi, Clairvoyancy, 6th Sense, Psychokinesis, etc.

The Great Wolf Messing!

Postby ciscop » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:55 am

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so any of you guys have ever heard of Wolf Messing?

well this was a self called psychic that did some amazing feats during the soviet union

- he was examined by Sigmund Freud,
- amongst the things he did was walking into a bank and getting out with 100,000 rubles
- he used his ¨psychic¨ abbilities to scare and psych out the contender of the chess champion of the world (he was with the russians)

so cool...
i wish i could have been there to witness this guy´s feats
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: The Great Wolf Messing!

Postby NinjaPuppy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:58 pm

I have never heard of him but I will do a bit of searching around on the Internt. Do you have any good links?
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Re: The Great Wolf Messing!

Postby ProfWag » Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:38 pm

Never heard of him. There was another guy whom I can't remember his name now, but was very influential to Hitler and was ultimately killed because of his predictions. The Professor uses his work as proof of the paranormal, though unfortunately, it was too long ago to do any real investigative work.
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Re: The Great Wolf Messing!

Postby ciscop » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:13 pm

i forgot to post the link..

http://networking.mydesigntool.com/view ... =279&id=31

there was also a BBC documentary about psychics
and he was part of it
thats where i got my story about the Chess championship
i remember it like this
the Soviet Chess champion was from Ukraine or one of those countries.. he escaped and changes his nationality.. so the Russians were really mad at him.. and he was still the champion of the world.. so later on.. that champion had to play against a Russian.. and Wolf Messing was there
and the ¨traitor¨ complained that Messing was getting into his head.
and he later on lost his title to the Russian.
isnt it amazing how suggestion works?

i got some other info about him but that´s from magician´s book.. so i dont have link to those..
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: The Great Wolf Messing!

Postby ciscop » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:25 pm

after a little search
i found this

is a 5min clip from a documentary

part1
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbma5z ... shortfilms

part2
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbma62 ... shortfilms

is really fun to watch
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: The Great Wolf Messing!

Postby ciscop » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:36 pm

thats why i laught when i see people supporting Uri
is like.. I am a skeptic
and URI isnt the best you got to offer
Uri has been debunked
nobody has debunked Wolf Messing

i have no idea how or if he did those things, (it was the soviet union remember? they spilled many rumours and lies to scare the americans)
but how cool it would be if it is for real?.. that´s so great
this guy got money from a bank and bypass Soviet Security, Uri bent some spoons with his hands..
which one is better?

Uri is nothing when compared to guys like Wolf Messing
go and do your homework believers, there´s guys out there really great
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: The Great Wolf Messing!

Postby NinjaPuppy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:46 pm

ciscop wrote:...the Soviet Chess champion was from Ukraine or one of those countries.. he escaped and changes his nationality.. so the Russians were really mad at him.. and he was still the champion of the world.. so later on.. that champion had to play against a Russian.. and Wolf Messing was there
and the ¨traitor¨ complained that Messing was getting into his head.
and he later on lost his title to the Russian.
isnt it amazing how suggestion works?

Yes. The power of suggestion can really screw with people's heads. Oh, the stories I could tell!

Thanks for the links. I will enjoy surfing around those this evening.
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Re: The Great Wolf Messing!

Postby NinjaPuppy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:48 pm

ciscop wrote:i have no idea how or if he did those things, (it was the soviet union remember? they spilled many rumours and lies to scare the americans)
but how cool it would be if it is for real?.. that´s so great
this guy got money from a bank and bypass Soviet Security, Uri bent some spoons with his hands..
which one is better?

That was great! It sure did answer some of the questions that I have had since I was a kid. I had always wondered why the Soviets seemed so interested in ESP and related topics. This particular information sure does explain a lot. Either they had the real deal or had to support one great lie to scare the crapf out of the USA or waste our time looking for an American version.

Thanks Ciscop. I very much enjoyed that.
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Re: The Great Wolf Messing!

Postby ciscop » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:44 am

im glad you like them
i laughed a lot with the freud and einstein reenactment
i actually have a clue of how i could do that thing
and thats with no mind powers nor stooges or helpers

here are a few more awesome russian psychics
Rosa Kuleshova (she could read with her fingers)
Nina Kalugina (perhaps the most famous of all... she moved stuff with her ¨mind¨)


she is totally debunked tought...

and

Boris Ermolaev (made objects levitate)
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: The Great Wolf Messing!

Postby ciscop » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:27 am

i guess kevin nor hf2 nor scescop
wanted to discuss wolf messing a "psychic" that went undebunked
and still want to debate stupid spoon bending tricks done by a MAGICIAN

... i am serving a silver plate
yet they refuse it
:cry:
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: The Great Wolf Messing!

Postby NinjaPuppy » Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:57 pm

HEY! What about me? I liked it.
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Re: The Great Wolf Messing!

Postby Craig Browning » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:24 pm

Wolf Messing and van Hannussen happen to be two of my "heroes" and I can assure you that both were but weren't frauds :lol:

Much of what they employed has been a well known yet well kept secret in occult circles for generations, so on that point alone there is a legitimacy to what these gents used in order to fulfill the public's idea of what a Psychic/Mind Reader was. Van Hannussen however, was an entertainer and rather established as such along with his role of being confidant and personal Reader for most of the key players in the NAZI Party during it's rise to power. Memory serving me correctly, he was murdered on the Kristallnacht not just because he was a Jew but because he was a Psychic, which was something that had created problems for Hitler (long, complicated story).

There's a great deal of documentation around van Hannussen and some of the stunts he got away with when it came to the German belief in things paranormal/occult.

Messing was more of a Post War character and though he did "perform", it was more akin to demonstration vs. theatrical muse. His top fan being Joseph Stalin who looked at him much in the same way we saw the nobleman in the film "The Illusionist" viewing the mage... Messing was a curiosity for Stalin, who saw himself as being intelligent enough to explain how Messing accomplished his various demonstrations.

In either case we are looking at individuals that used the same general techniques for a similar set of reasons; if one were found to be using trickery or deception in those days (withing the Germanic nations) prison was inevitable and death quite likely. For this reason these two and others, were inspired to learn specific skills that were known to the Roma people for "centuries" (according to legend and somewhat sustained by history). Ironically a gent by the name of Randall Brown had already become a sensation in the United States using the very same method; something he'd learnt as a lad. While Brown knew brief success, those that he shared the method with who were more natural showmen, became major headliners; they knew how to exploit the method and make it much bigger than it really was.

Now in skimming over this thread I couldn't help but chuckle to myself because of the many theories tossed about, and while some do mirror the more minor ingredients tossed into the broth either man employed, they are far from what was really going on. I will however give you a subtle nudge in the right direction -- Dowsing. :twisted:
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Re: The Great Wolf Messing!

Postby ciscop » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:41 pm

thanks for mentioning Hanussen!
that´s another great character of mentalism´s history.
i dont know much about Hanussen, do you care to start a topic on him?

and Brown
while he used the Ideomotor response which is the basis for Dowsing
i dont recall hearing him using a pendullum, nor twigs nor ruds or stuff like it
he always used another spectator that knew where it was hidden the object
this is explained better in Banachek ¨Muscle Reading¨ or ¨Hellstronism¨ by Robert Nelson

:D
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: The Great Wolf Messing!

Postby Craig Browning » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:11 pm

I don't know if Brown used such but most of the people I know that do MR work employ all the "tricks in the book" as it were; every thing from dowsing sticks to table tipping.

Banachek's book (Psychophysiological Thought Reading) and disc 3 of his PSI Series DVD set are two of the best "how to" sources on the market when it comes to this skill but Bill Palmer just recently translated Jan Hanussen's notes under the title "Mind Reading & Telepathy" which is likewise an awesome read; what Erik intended to be an actual study course to help people develop an act similar to his own.

Bob Cassidy has a good chunk of material based around Wolf Messing but most of what he offers is gimmicked, though it looks like actual MR bits.

As a performer I lean on this technique heavily because it ties in so well with the theme of INTUITION that I work with. When you add in the Pendulum you end up with a great bit of audience participation 8-)


A CONFESSION: Since the decline of my health a few years ago I am very reliant on a wheelchair though I have limited mobility. When I do shows and come to that part of the act where MR is being used, I will ask for a couple of people to hold me by the arms to steady me... need I say more? :roll:
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Re: The Great Wolf Messing!

Postby ciscop » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:38 pm

clap clap clap clap!
standing ovation for still performing the art that you love
:D

well done
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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