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OPC-3: The most powerful antioxidant in the world?

Discussions about Holistic Health and Alternative Medicine.

OPC-3: The most powerful antioxidant in the world?

Postby Scepcop » October 2nd, 2012, 10:37 am

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Check out these NBC news reports about OPC-3, a powerful antioxidant sold by Market America distributors which people claim do wonders. What do you think? If this product is so good, and is really "the most powerful antioxidant in the world" as its sellers claim, then why isn't it produced to be sold in stores? Why does Market America have a monopoly on it?








Here is a news report from Taiwan about a 41 year old woman who looks to be in her 20's. She says one of her secrets is taking OPC.



Info about the ingredients of OPC-3:




If you want to try it out, here is the ordering info:

Ordering info:
http://www.shop.com/Isotonix+reg+OPC+3+ ... 9-p+.xhtml

Benefits:
http://www.shop.com/Isotonix+reg+OPC+3+ ... .xhtml#tx1

Ingredients:
http://www.shop.com/Isotonix+reg+OPC+3+ ... .xhtml#tx1

FAQ's:
http://www.shop.com/Isotonix+reg+OPC+3+ ... .xhtml#tx1

Scientific research in peer reviewed journals:
http://www.shop.com/Isotonix+reg+OPC+3+ ... .xhtml#tx1

Dosage instructions:
http://mpiteam.com/HAS/HAS/follow-up_fi ... ctions.pdf
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Re: Is OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant in the world?

Postby Arouet » October 2nd, 2012, 11:11 am

Any scientific studies on it?
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Re: Is OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant in the world?

Postby NinjaPuppy » October 2nd, 2012, 11:18 am

Arouet wrote:Any scientific studies on it?

I'm looking.... but meanwhile, I found this: http://www.livestrong.com/article/212919-what-is-opc-3/

Effectiveness of OPC-3

According to the Natural Medicines Comprehensive Medicine Database and The National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, there is some research that shows that oligomeric proanthocyanidins can be effective in reducing poor circulation in the legs and may help in reducing eye strain which may lead to age-related macular degeneration later in life. There is insufficient evidence to recommend using supplements that contain oligomeric proanthocyandins for the treatment of heart disease, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, constipation, hemorrhoids, cough, attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder, chronic fatigue syndrome, cancer and liver damage. Currently there is on-going research with grape seed extract and it's role in reducing risk of breast, prostate and colon cancer as well as in Alzheimer's disease.

Safety Concerns
OPC-3 and grape seed extract interfere with the Cytochrome P450 pathway and the drugs phenacetin and warfarin or Coumadin. OPC-3 and grape seed may also slow the growth of lactobacillus acidophilus in the intestines and should not be taken at the same time as cultured strains of lactobacillus. Taking OPC-3 or grape seed extract with high doses of vitamin C may increase blood pressure.
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Re: Is OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant in the world?

Postby NinjaPuppy » October 2nd, 2012, 11:19 am

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Re: Is OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant in the world?

Postby Scepcop » October 3rd, 2012, 2:06 am

Arouet wrote:Any scientific studies on it?


Well not by the FDA or Big Pharma. Who would fund studies on it? Big pharma can't patent it, as it is 100 percent natural. So it has no incentive to do studies on supplements. However, virtually 100 percent of the anecdotal evidence about it is positive. Some even describe it as a life-saver.

I challenge you to find even one negative testimonial about it. The only ones I've found are from nincompoops saying that their OPC-3 bottle arrived past their expiration date when they got it on Ebay, or that the powder hardened after they left the cap open, or that it was too sweet. But not any legitimate complaints.
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Re: Is OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant in the world?

Postby Arouet » October 3rd, 2012, 4:24 am

Scepcop wrote:Well not by the FDA or Big Pharma. Who would fund studies on it? Big pharma can't patent it, as it is 100 percent natural. So it has no incentive to do studies on supplements.


Huh? You don't think companies make money selling supplements???? You do know that some of the biggest supplement manufacturers are the same big pharma companies right?

However, virtually 100 percent of the anecdotal evidence about it is positive. Some even describe it as a life-saver.

I challenge you to find even one negative testimonial about it. The only ones I've found are from nincompoops saying that their OPC-3 bottle arrived past their expiration date when they got it on Ebay, or that the powder hardened after they left the cap open, or that it was too sweet. But not any legitimate complaints.


Do you think that your thought process here should be described as "skeptical" or "pseudoskeptical"?
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Re: Is OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant in the world?

Postby Scepcop » October 3rd, 2012, 5:38 am

Arouet wrote:
Scepcop wrote:Well not by the FDA or Big Pharma. Who would fund studies on it? Big pharma can't patent it, as it is 100 percent natural. So it has no incentive to do studies on supplements.


Huh? You don't think companies make money selling supplements???? You do know that some of the biggest supplement manufacturers are the same big pharma companies right?

However, virtually 100 percent of the anecdotal evidence about it is positive. Some even describe it as a life-saver.

I challenge you to find even one negative testimonial about it. The only ones I've found are from nincompoops saying that their OPC-3 bottle arrived past their expiration date when they got it on Ebay, or that the powder hardened after they left the cap open, or that it was too sweet. But not any legitimate complaints.


Do you think that your thought process here should be described as "skeptical" or "pseudoskeptical"?


No I didn't know that. I'm skeptical, but I'm just stating a fact. No one has any negative testimonials about OPC-3. You are welcome to find any if you want. That says a lot.
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Re: Is OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant in the world?

Postby Arouet » October 3rd, 2012, 5:44 am

Scepcop wrote:No I didn't know that. I'm skeptical, but I'm just stating a fact. No one has any negative testimonials about OPC-3. You are welcome to find any if you want. That says a lot.


What does it say? Is it true skepticism to rely primarily on testimonials to decide if a medical treatment is effective? Do you consider testimonials to be reliable? Can you think of reasons why there may be positive testimonials even if the treatment is infective?

Remember: I'm not making an argument that OPC-3 doesn't do what the testimonials say it does, we're just looking at what a skeptical approach should look like when approaching the question.
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Re: Is OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant in the world?

Postby Scepcop » October 3rd, 2012, 5:53 am

Arouet wrote:
Scepcop wrote:No I didn't know that. I'm skeptical, but I'm just stating a fact. No one has any negative testimonials about OPC-3. You are welcome to find any if you want. That says a lot.


What does it say? Is it true skepticism to rely primarily on testimonials to decide if a medical treatment is effective? Do you consider testimonials to be reliable? Can you think of reasons why there may be positive testimonials even if the treatment is infective?

Remember: I'm not making an argument that OPC-3 doesn't do what the testimonials say it does, we're just looking at what a skeptical approach should look like when approaching the question.


This is not about skepticism. It's about probability. The old guy in the NBC news report above looks like a skeptical no-nonsense type who would not say that it helped him if it didn't. Yes there's the placebo effect, but these testimonials are overwhelming. I don't need the scientific establishment to give me an ok. You are too dependent on them.

As to testimonials being reliable, see my article on this which lists the factors and considerations:

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Page5.htm

If you were an employer about to hire someone and needed to make sure you hired a good person, would you want good references of your applicants? Wouldn't you want them to have credible positive references from their other employers? Would that matter to you? Or would you say they don't matter because testimonials don't mean anything? When you buy stuff on Ebay, does the feedback rating of the seller matter to you?

Can you be realistic and down to earth for once? Can you stop challenging basic common sense?
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Re: Is OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant in the world?

Postby Arouet » October 3rd, 2012, 10:10 am

Well, if you agree you're not taking a skeptical approach - that's fine then!
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Re: Is OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant in the world?

Postby NinjaPuppy » October 3rd, 2012, 11:16 am

IMO, the fact that SCEPCOP is asking the question "Is OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant in the world?" is being skeptical.

However, I will argue this point:
SCEPCOP wrote:If you were an employer about to hire someone and needed to make sure you hired a good person, would you want good references of your applicants? Wouldn't you want them to have credible positive references from their other employers? Would that matter to you? Or would you say they don't matter because testimonials don't mean anything?

It is now suggested that companies NEVER put anything negative in a business reference letter. The 'rules' have changed as far as how much a good reference can be used in evaluating a new hire. http://www.businessballs.com/references ... amples.htm

SCEPCOP wrote:When you buy stuff on Ebay, does the feedback rating of the seller matter to you?

Of course, but only to those who know better or have learned the hard way. It's not like the best rated seller can't go belly up tomorrow and become the newest rip off artist on Ebay.
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Re: Is OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant in the world?

Postby Arouet » October 3rd, 2012, 11:58 am

NinjaPuppy wrote:IMO, the fact that SCEPCOP is asking the question "Is OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant in the world?" is being skeptical.


Asking the question is fine. But his method of approaching the question (ie: relying solely on testimonials) is not, imo. By skeptical I don't just mean doubt, I mean not accept a proposition absent suffiicient reliable evidence. I hope we can agree that testimonials are not reliable evidence!
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Re: Is OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant in the world?

Postby Scepcop » October 4th, 2012, 11:25 am

Arouet wrote:
NinjaPuppy wrote:IMO, the fact that SCEPCOP is asking the question "Is OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant in the world?" is being skeptical.


Asking the question is fine. But his method of approaching the question (ie: relying solely on testimonials) is not, imo. By skeptical I don't just mean doubt, I mean not accept a proposition absent suffiicient reliable evidence. I hope we can agree that testimonials are not reliable evidence!


You are playing word games. I ask questions because I am not an expert in supplements. However, other supplement experts do seem to agree that OPC-3 has beneficial ingredients in it. This isn't about skepticism. Skepticism is not all there is to life. Sheesh. My point is that based on the virtual 100 percent positive testimonials for OPC-3 and the endorsement of it by third party health experts, there is a HIGH PROBABILITY that it is a good antioxidant with benefits to your health.

I am going by probability. I am not limited like you by establishment consensus. And I think my conclusion is logical based on the data.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Is OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant in the world?

Postby Scepcop » October 4th, 2012, 11:28 am

NinjaPuppy wrote:IMO, the fact that SCEPCOP is asking the question "Is OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant in the world?" is being skeptical.

However, I will argue this point:
SCEPCOP wrote:If you were an employer about to hire someone and needed to make sure you hired a good person, would you want good references of your applicants? Wouldn't you want them to have credible positive references from their other employers? Would that matter to you? Or would you say they don't matter because testimonials don't mean anything?

It is now suggested that companies NEVER put anything negative in a business reference letter. The 'rules' have changed as far as how much a good reference can be used in evaluating a new hire. http://www.businessballs.com/references ... amples.htm

SCEPCOP wrote:When you buy stuff on Ebay, does the feedback rating of the seller matter to you?

Of course, but only to those who know better or have learned the hard way. It's not like the best rated seller can't go belly up tomorrow and become the newest rip off artist on Ebay.


I've worked for a government employment agency before and also overheard temp agencies call former employers of applicants. If the former employer has nothing good to say, they will say "no comment" and they will not give their ex-employee a reference letter. A "no comment" is considered a negative reference. There is no law that says that employers have to give positive references.

Anyway, I think any employer prefers an applicant with good references.

Arouet, you didn't answer my question. If you were an employer, would you care about an applicant's references? And if you were shopping for something important on Ebay, would you care about a seller's feedback rating? Be honest please. Don't play word games.

Btw, the only time I got scammed on Ebay was from a seller with zero references and feedback.
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Re: Is OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant in the world?

Postby Scepcop » October 12th, 2012, 3:11 am

A friend of mine told me that OPC-3 saved his son's life.

It saved my son's life while in the womb...got rid of my gout and had way more endurance. Felt more clear minded when taking it. Haven't taken it in a while because I can't afford it with being so broke...LOL! My experience has been positive with all of the isotonix products, including the Aloe...


If it were that great though, why don't they sell it in stores?

I asked my friend and mentor Walt Goodridge about this, and here is his reply, which he made a blog post out of:

http://www.waltgoodridge.com/if-its-so- ... he-stores/

"Your question is fundamentally flawed.
It presumes that mainstream companies that sell to supermarkets are in the business of making people healthy and better. They are not. These companies (think Kelloggs, Kraft Foods, etc.) are and remain in business selling products at a profit, and generating repeat customers who get hooked on their products. That’s why there is sugar in table salt (look at the ingredients in Morton Table Salt in the US), sweeteners in soda, preservatives, MSG and other unnecessary, harmful and addictive ingredients in many products you find on supermarket shelves.
There is little that is sold in supermarkets that is really “good” for you. (Personally, the only thing I buy in supermarkets are toilet paper and bottled water. I get everything else from farmers markets and organic health food stores, or directly from the tree when I’m on Saipan)
To mass market a product requires that there be a viable profit margin selling your product at a price the masses find reasonable. The majority of items sold in supermarkets, therefore, are essentially garbage because they can be produced at low cost using inferior industrially-farmed, mass produced, genetically modified ingredients, sold at a low cost to fit within the budget of the widest audience.
It is a flaw to use widespread availability as a determinant for a product’s health effectiveness.
Your statement also presumes that the overall thrust of the FDA (Food and Drug Administration)–as well as the medical profession in general– is to cure illness. It is not. Similar to food companies, the prime directive is to keep people unhealthy so that their income through the peddling of pharmaceutical drugs is maintained.
The Gerson Therapy is outlawed in the US BECAUSE it cures cancer. Hydrogren Peroxide, DMSO, clay, etc. are all downplayed as miracle cures BECAUSE they are, and are easily accessible by the public. There is a war against nutritional supplements for the same reason.
It is a flaw to rely on medical acceptance and government support as a determinant for a product’s health effectiveness.
So, to answer your question:
It may be precisely BECAUSE it is so valuable that you will NOT see it in supermarkets. The moment you DO see such a product in a supermarket at a “reasonable” priced, that’s when you can be sure that (a) the original manufacturers have sold it to a larger concern who may have changed the production/growing process and stripped it of its original value in order to make a profit, and/or (b) lower cost inferior ingredients are being used towards that same goal. (This is what people are saying happened to Solgar, Burts Bees, Tom’s of Maine, and other brands. See
http://newhope360.com/managing-your-bus ... 15-million
and
http://www.organicconsumers.org/article ... _17306.cfm
I could go on, but the reason things don’t seem to make sense is because your paradigm is flawed.
Did you know that lightbulbs can be manufactured to last longer? Did you know that rubber car tires and component parts of electronics can be made not to wear out as quickly as they do? Your question is similar to asking “If those lightbulbs and tires can really last longer, then why aren’t those sold in stores?"
or
“If there were really UFOs in existence, then why isn’t it mainstream news?”
This is an ordered and predictable universe that conforms to specific laws. Everything makes sense if you have the correct understanding. And your life, other people, the world and your place within it can make sense if you have the right belief system. Check out a belief system that can help you make sense of things at http://www.livingtruetoyourself.com
W"
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