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Pat Flynn - Is he a scam? Does he make what he claims?

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Pat Flynn - Is he a scam? Does he make what he claims?

Postby Scepcop » 16 Dec 2011, 19:56

Image

Hi all,
I've been looking over the blog of a popular internet marketing guru, Pat Flynn, at http://www.smartpassiveincome.com. It is very helpful and generous with all its free advice and instructions for generating online passive income and creating websites to do that with. He is definitely very knowledgeable.

However, I can't help but be a bit skeptical of his personal success claims. First, he tells us in his intro 101 page that making money online is not easy. It takes a lot of hard work and time to build up. That's true. See here:

http://www.smartpassiveincome.com/passive-income-101/

But then he claims in his interviews and story that he made $8000 in his first month off of selling one ebook about how to pass an architect license exam. Then he says he made over $200,000 in his first year, and that he now makes over $30,000 monthly. That seems to contradict his teaching that it takes a lot of time and effort to make money online, doesn't it, since he claimed to get rich quickly.

Here are his monthly income reports where it shows his monthly build up of $8k a month to $30k:

http://www.smartpassiveincome.com/my-income-reports/

Here are his interviews where he makes these claims:

http://www.incomediary.com/pat-flynn
http://www.entrepreneurs-journey.com/1860/pat-flynn/
http://www.blogtrepreneur.com/2010/12/2 ... rst-month/

Now, I've been making money online for three years, and I know many others who are doing it too. So I have some good knowledge and experience in this area, and I know that making $8000 during your first month, especially selling one ebook, is an extraordinary claim. After three years, I'm only pulling in a few thousand a month, but that's after a slow steady traffic build up that involved hard work and production of good content, with no secret formulas. So based on my experience, his claims of success and quick high profits are extraordinary.

He doesn't seem to have any proof of these claims. Yet all his fans seem to believe everything he says, based on their comments in his blog and on other third party blogs as well. To them, all his claims are true. If he says it, then it's true. Amazingly, on the internet, there are no critical reviews of him. There are dozens of blogs that praise him, with many positive comments under them, but no critical ones (could the bloggers have edited out all negative comments?). Everyone says he is the real deal. But how do they know? Where is the evidence or proof? Online, anyone can say anything.

His sample passive income business sites do look great though, and are ranked very high. So he definitely must have a lot of traffic coming in, which would give him good income. But there are many sites out there that look great with web 2.0 graphics and nifty wordpress themes, but they ain't making shit. Here are his online businesses so you can see them for yourself.

This one was created as part of an online contest with another internet marketing guru to see who could create a better new passive income site, and ended up generating $2000 a month for him:

http://www.securityguardtraininghq.com

Here is his original online business that he allegedly became successful and rich off of:

http://www.greenexamacademy.com

On his blog teaching people how to make passive income, he gives a lot of free advice and information, which his fans say is very generous and altruistic of him. However, within his free advice blog are embedded various affiliate links to a number of website optimization products that claim to help get traffic to your site, which you have to pay for of course. So I wonder if that's why he's giving out so much free advice, to get commissions on these SEO products? It's hard to believe that he would do it for nothing or do it out of altruism.

Could it be that he is making more money off his "making passive income blog" than off of his online businesses themselves?

But what evidence is there to back his $30k a month income claims? Why hasn't he posted screen shots of his Adsense report earnings, or monthly PayPal transactions? But even those are easy to fake. Anyone can download or save a webpage offline, and then manipulate the HTML in it to produce any numbers they want. On the internet, anyone can claim anything. Even in Amway and other MLM's, lots of people making nothing are claiming to be doing well and pulling in thousands of dollars per month. It doesn't mean it's all true.

Furthermore, if Pat Flynn really made $30k a month, why is he always wearing cheap looking worn out T-shirts in his video interviews? See this one for example:



In his self intro on his home page, same thing.



In my experience, people who really are pulling in a lot of income do not like to draw public attention to it, unless they are celebrities. There are negative consequences to doing that. Especially if you are making a lot of money online, it is not in one's best interest to publicize it, for it will draw bad people, and incite others to follow your business model and create copycat versions of your site, which could potentially jeopardize your income. No rational person would want to do that.

In addition, there is an old adage that says: "You cannot make a lot of money by telling people the truth". I wonder if that applies here. Another witty quote says:

"The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth." - H. L. Mencken

So it makes sense to be skeptical here, doesn't it?

What do you all think?
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Arouet » 16 Dec 2011, 23:56

Couple website valuators valuated his site at $450,000. But remember this guy makes his money by getting people to click on his site and probably selling BS products.

If you can create a site with a lot of traffic, you can certainly make good money. You might want to take some actual marketing courses. Get rich quick sites tend to get no one rich but he site owners.
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Scepcop » 17 Dec 2011, 00:48

Arouet wrote:Couple website valuators valuated his site at $450,000. But remember this guy makes his money by getting people to click on his site and probably selling BS products.

If you can create a site with a lot of traffic, you can certainly make good money. You might want to take some actual marketing courses. Get rich quick sites tend to get no one rich but he site owners.


I've taken marketing courses in college, and I know a lot about internet marketing too. All that info is available for free online if you want to research it.

Where did you get the info about website evaluators valuing his site at $450k?

He certainly gets a lot of traffic. No doubt about that. However, I'm not sure if he's making all that money off his real business websites, or off of his "how to make money" blog. He isn't clear on that. If he really is making $30k a month, I'd like to see which site of his is making the biggest chunk of that.

In spite of that, I don't buy his claim that when he first monetized his architecture exam site by selling an ebook, he made $8,000 the first month. It doesn't work that way, even if your ebook is the greatest one in the world. That claim is very unrealistic. He admits that it takes a lot of work and patience to make money online. That's true. But in real life, you have to spend many months working hard making nothing before income starts rolling in. You don't work hard one month and start making $8,000 and then more and more each subsequent month. Working hard means you go without a net profit for months first, before you start making some money, and not that much at that.

$8,000 a month is not the starting salary of someone "working very hard on the internet". No way. Get real. The money trickles in, but it doesn't start at $8,000.

So his claims don't make sense. But he somehow does have a ton of traffic now.

Check out his alleged monthly income reports:

http://www.smartpassiveincome.com/my-income-reports/

November 2011 – $44,473.31
October 2011 – $38,612.90
September 2011 – $36.592.27
August 2011 – $34,034.40
July 2011 – $32,851.84
June 2011 – $30,393.49
May 2011 – $26,609.13
April 2011 – $41,634.24
March 2011 – $29,429.93
February 2011 – $24,616.83
January 2011 – $35,607.11
December 2010 – $23,646.83
November 2010 – $21,641.75
October 2010 – $17,905.88
September 2010 – $17,229.52
August 2010 – $20,683.09
July 2010 – $12,978.14
June 2010 – $12,990.71
May 2010 – $16,336.50
April 2010 – $11,461.09
March 2010 – $9,425.38
February 2010 – $10,114.38
January 2010 – $10,266.63
December 2009 – $9,999.75
November 2009 – $8,547.54
October 2009 – $8,661.78
September 2009 – $9,174.19
August 2009 – $9234.96
July 2009 – $8980.79
June 2009 – $26,558.38
May 2009 – $21,359.69
April 2009 – $18,999.36
March 2009 – $30,328.48
February 2009 – $23,106.16
January 2009 – $19,400.37
December 2008 – $12,193.59
November 2008 – $9782.89
October 2008 – $7906.55


Wow. No way huh?

I don't understand why all his thousands of fans believe everything he says without question. Where are the critics and skeptics?

You are right about one thing. None of his fans claim to be getting rich by learning from him. They all say that they are not earning anywhere near what he does, but that he inspires them to keep trying. lol

Also, why is there a photo of him with his baby in the top right corner of his blog?

Image

Does holding a baby makes you look more credible and legit as a good family man? lol Oh I see, I think he's doing that so that the stay at home moms in America who are trying to make an online income can relate to him. lol

Maybe I ought to have a picture of me holding my baby, to look more credible too. lol
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Arouet » 17 Dec 2011, 01:08

google: "how much is this website worth". I did two of them plugging in his website and they each came up with similar numbers, so they seem to be using similar indicators.

Scepcop, of course he's bullshitting. How many people do you think are taking an architecture licensing exam each month? And there's not just one exam, different countries, states, etc. are going to have different ways of regulating it, there are probably thousands of such exams around. Of those people, how many are going to buy some ebook on how to pass it rather than study the course material they have.

I didn't click on that site (don't want to give him more hits) but I would take with a grain of salt absolutely EVERYTHING on that site.

How does he get so many hits? Because lots of people google: Make money from home, and I'm sure his site comes up a lot. I wouldn't trust a testimonial.

If you have money to burn, I guess you can try his products. But my guess is that you'll only end up benefiting him, not you.
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Scepcop » 17 Dec 2011, 01:23

Arouet wrote:google: "how much is this website worth". I did two of them plugging in his website and they each came up with similar numbers, so they seem to be using similar indicators.

Scepcop, of course he's bullshitting. How many people do you think are taking an architecture licensing exam each month? And there's not just one exam, different countries, states, etc. are going to have different ways of regulating it, there are probably thousands of such exams around. Of those people, how many are going to buy some ebook on how to pass it rather than study the course material they have.

I didn't click on that site (don't want to give him more hits) but I would take with a grain of salt absolutely EVERYTHING on that site.

How does he get so many hits? Because lots of people google: Make money from home, and I'm sure his site comes up a lot. I wouldn't trust a testimonial.

If you have money to burn, I guess you can try his products. But my guess is that you'll only end up benefiting him, not you.


Well if you look at his blog, he isn't selling anything. He gives away all his advice for free. He does have affiliate links in his blogs. But there is no sales pressure from him. Check out his blog and analyze it or scrutinize it.

I don't understand why all his thousands of fans believe everything he says without question. If you google "Pat Flynn passive income" you will find dozens of blogs praising him. Why? Are they in on it? Where are the critics and skeptics?

I noticed that none of his fans claim to be getting rich by learning from him. They all say that they are not earning anywhere near what he does, but that he inspires them to keep trying. lol Go figure.

At least we agree that his claims are extraordinary. You are not going to make $8,000 in the first month just by selling an ebook about taking an architect exam. lol. That's baloney. A real online business takes time to build up, before it snowballs. It doesn't start at $8,000 a month and then goes on up from there. That's too hard to believe.

I know people who sell ebooks. They are lucky if they get $100 a month. Some get $300 or $400 on a good month. But $8,000? No way.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Scepcop » 17 Dec 2011, 01:56

FYI, when I started making online income, I was making under $100 a month. After three years of slow traffic build up and content generation, I now make over $900 a month from about 10 different income streams. That's on my other site: http://www.happierabroad.com

But I had no secret formulas. It was all from traffic build up, links, email lists, and content generation, which led to more and more advertising revenue, sponsorships and commissions. But I started making under $100 a month. I didn't start with $8,000. Sheesh. Did I do something wrong? lol Does Pat Flynn have some secret formula that makes $8,000 fall into his lap in the first month? lol That's crazy.

He now says he makes $2,000 a month from this site, which he built up as an experiment for a contest.
http://www.securityguardtraininghq.com

Check it out. What do you think? Do you see anything on that site that would generate $2,000 a month?

Also, if he was making $30k a month, why would he be wearing worn out t-shirts? I'd be wearing designer clothing if I had that kind of income. lol
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Arouet » 17 Dec 2011, 02:05

Scepcop, his business is getting you to click on his sites. You're helping his business by directing traffic to his sites. He selling the dream of making easy money. As you know, its not so easy. He's not gonig to have anything to offer you.
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Scepcop » 17 Dec 2011, 04:52

I got an email from Pat Flynn to my skeptical questions about him. Here is what he wrote:

Hey Winston,

Thanks for the email. I was about to go to bed but I felt like I needed to respond to you. Like I said in the response to your comment on my post, I appreciate and welcome skepticism. I do because I know I have nothing to worry about because I don't hide anything. My answers to your questions are below each of your comments...

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 3:12 AM, Winston Wu <wwu777us@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Pat,
I like your blog. There is a lot of good useful advice and information for free in it. However, I am a critical thinker and can't help but be skeptical about a few things:

- First, you seem to contradict yourself. In your 101 intro, you tell everyone that making passive income online is not easy, and that it requires a lot of hard work and time to build up, which is true. But then in your story, you say you made $8000 off one ebook during your first month attempt at this, and that in your first year, you made over $200,000, and now you make $30,000 a month. Isn't that a direct contradiction? By your claims, you got rich quick easily, but you tell everyone that it takes a lot of time and hard work and is not easy.


Indeed, making a passive income online is NOT easy. Not at all. October of 2008, when I made about $8k online, that was NOT my first month online. Not even close - in fact, my blog that I made all that money off of, which was previously at intheleed.com and is now greenexamacademy.com, was already up for almost 2 years. October of 2008 was the first month I monetized that site with an eBook. To get to $30k a month now has not been easy either - it's taken a lot of hard work, dedication, and going through times of wanting to give up.


- I've been making money online for 3 years now, and I know many others who are doing it too. $8,000 in your first month is an extraordinary claim, not a realistic one, even if you are a super genius. It took me 3 years to build up enough traffic and reputation to make a little over $900 a month. And that was through hard work and content generation, not with any secret formula. Your sites do look great, and do have top rankings I see, but there are many sites out there that look great with web 2.0 graphics and nifty wordpress themes too, and they ain't making shit. I still think your claims are extraordinary. But your fans seem to believe everything you say, like a Gospel preacher in a church, with no skepticism. Why is that?


I don't think the income from a site depends on how it looks. Okay, maybe a little bit, but it's about the person behind the site, and the relationships that are built between that person and their audience. I know I do a lot of things that other blogs don't do - even blogs that have a better design than my own. I'm 100% honest and transparent about not only my earnings, but how I run my businesses, and not only when I do things right, but when I fail too. A lot of other bloggers in this industry hide this.

See my niche site duel here: http://www.nichesiteduel.com - it shows, for free, how I took a site from scratch (i reveal the keyword and website and everything - you can find it at http://www.securityguardtraininghq.com) and got to #1 in Google in 73 days, and now a year later that site is now making 2k a per month. Again, not easy - I put a lot of hard work into it, but it's paying off, passively now.

You see - not everyone does this, and this is proof that the concepts I talk about work. A lot of people out there talk the talk, but this is talking and walking the walk, which I always try to do. I go out of my way to provide the BEST content possible, some of the best content on the web, for free. The more I give away, the more I get back in return.

I think people care about what I say because I care about them. I truly do. My business model is this: give away as much information as possible, and it will always come back to me bigger.

With greenexamacademy.com, that site was up for almost 2 years, just pure content, not selling anything, and I worked with people to help them pass the LEED exam (which is what that site is about). When I finally wrote an eBook (which was actually done after several requests from my own audience), I already had the audience there, and some people even bought the book from me even though they had already passed the exam, just to thank me for giving away all the free information I did on that site.

It's all about relationships, and I can tell you I take great pride in how I relate to people from my blog - with those who support me, with those who don't, and those who are skeptical about what I do and the numbers I report, like yourself.

- What evidence is there to back your income claims? Why haven't you posted screen shots of your Adsense report earnings, or of your monthly PayPal transactions? But even those are easy to fake. Anyone can download or save a webpage offline, and then manipulate the HTML in it to produce any numbers they want. On the internet, anyone can claim anything. Even in Amway and other MLM's, lots of people making nothing are claiming to be doing well and pulling in thousands of dollars per month. It doesn't mean it's all true. Furthermore, if you really are making $30k a month, why are you always wearing cheap looking worn out t-shirts in every video interview you give?


There's no way to understand if anybody is totally being honest online - but I can tell you that I wouldn't take a chance doing that because with the FTC involved now - anyone could get into major trouble providing false claims like that.

I could do a screenshare with you on Skype and walk you through my accounts and show you the affiliate earnings I make - but I don't think that's necessary. I shouldn't have to do that, but if you ask I have nothing to hide.

And your comment about cheap shirts, I think that's a little uncalled for. Why does the fact that I make good money mean I have to look a certain way, or wear certain clothes, or live a certain lifestyle. If I was homeless but had a nice tuxedo on, would that make you automatically think I was a millionaire?

Plus, I'm comfortable in those shirts. What I wear has nothing to do with how much I make.

- In my experience, people who really are pulling in a lot of income do not like to draw public attention to it, unless they are celebrities. There are negative consequences to doing that. Especially if you are making a lot of money online, it is not in one's best interest to publicize it, for it will draw bad people, and incite others to follow your business model and create copycat versions of your site, which could potentially jeopardize your income. No rational person would want to do that.


I'm me, and this is what I do. So in your experience, people don't like to bring attention to it. Well, I do - because it shows that making money online is possible. It inspires people, and it pushes me to do more by holding myself accountable. In light of my audience and what would help them, it's in the best interest for them because it's authentic, it's real, and I think that if anyone is teaching anybody how to do anything online, they have to show proof first - and this is my proof.

- In addition, there is an old adage that says: "You cannot make a lot of money by telling people the truth". I wonder if that applies here. Another witty quote says:

"The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth." - H. L. Mencken

So it makes sense to be skeptical here, doesn't it?


Totally makes sense to be skeptical, and again, I appreciate that you are because it's really easy for me to send you an email and just tell you the truth.

With the quotes - I think times are changing now - especially with social media and everyone being connected. Sure, it's an old adage, but it's a new age, and authenticity and truth is what people want, it's what people appreciate now, and in this world of blogging and building trust and earning fans - success starts with the truth.

Do I expect that after reading this you'll change your mind about me - I have no idea, that's up to you. But, if you have any more questions or even want to chat over Skype - I'm here to show you I'm a genuine, nice guy who is doing well online and trying to give others good advice on how to do the same.

Sincerely,

Pat

p.s. A couple of my other blogger friends have been telling me you posted this exact same email in their comment section. Why did you do that without even giving me a chance to answer you? I find that to be pretty unethical. Looking forward to your response, and would appreciate it if you found answers from me first before spamming all of my friends' blogs.


What do you think? Does he sound honest and genuine?

Is he bluffing about showing me his earnings through Skype? What would happen if I did that? Wouldn't he just show me the affiliate earnings he gets from his money making blog?

In any case, here is my response I wrote back to him:

"Hi Pat,
Thanks for replying to my questions. But there are still a number of problems with your explanations that don't add up.

Even if you had a following on your architecture exam site for 2 years, that still would not make it possible to suddenly sell an ebook and make $8,000 in the first month. I've had a following since 2003, and it's gotten fairly large, but if I came out with a new ebook tomorrow, I might make a few hundred dollars in a month. But definitely not $8,000. Real online income doesn't work that way. As you said, it takes a lot of hard work and patience. True. But what you forgot to mention is that most or all people doing this, spend several months earning peanuts or nothing at first, and then after that, the money starts TRICKLING in. But it doesn't start at $8,000 and then multiply every month thereafter, as you've claimed on your blog. No way. Eight grand is NOT the starting salary or income of an online entrepreneur who has just begun to monetize his/her website. Income comes slowly, then snowballs over time. But I've never seen a beginning trickle of $8,000 just falling into one's lap. It just doesn't work that way. You said it happened right after you monetized your site. But still, even if you had monetized it for years, one ebook isn't going to sell that much to earn $8,000 even if you had a large following beforehand.

A skeptic in one of my forums had this to say regarding your claim:

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2064
"Scepcop, of course he's bullshitting. How many people do you think are taking an architecture licensing exam each month? And there's not just one exam, different countries, states, etc. are going to have different ways of regulating it, there are probably thousands of such exams around. Of those people, how many are going to buy some ebook on how to pass it rather than study the course material they have."


I hope you understand my point. But anyway, you claim on your blog that now you get around $30k a month. Can you tell me then, where the biggest chunk of that $30k comes from? Which website does the largest portion of that income come from? I'd like to see it and assess it. And have my experts assess it as well.

Also, here's another key question. Does most of your income come from the "how to make money" blog itself, or from your real online businesses? In other words, does most of your income come from teaching others how to make online income? That's a crucial question.

If I went on Skype with you, what would you show me? Affiliate earnings for the smart passive income site and products? I know you are getting a ton of traffic on that site. The rankings show it. I'm just not sure if your income claims are realistic or not.

If I were to get on Skype, would you be able to show me the $8,000 sales you made from that one ebook? Could you take me to your PayPal screen and show me the $8,000 payments you received in that one month when you first started, just for that ebook?

About the cheap t-shirts, well I didn't mean to be shallow or superficial. But it's common sense. A person with a 30k a month income wouldn't dress like that. They'd be wearing designer clothing. They'd wear what Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt wear when they go out or do interviews. I certainly would. Also, no one does an interview about a serious business dressed in a worn t-shirt. You gotta look professional to appear credible if you want to be taken seriously. That may be shallow, but that's the way the world works. Image is everything. People just don't take a guy in a plain worn out t-shirt seriously. He doesn't look serious or credible. That's common sense. You know, there is a reason why CNN news anchors and guests on Oprah don't wear t-shirts when they're being televised. Can you guess what it is?

You said:
"With the quotes - I think times are changing now - especially with social media and everyone being connected. Sure, it's an old adage, but it's a new age, and authenticity and truth is what people want, it's what people appreciate now, and in this world of blogging and building trust and earning fans - success starts with the truth."


I don't agree with that at all, and neither would any intellectuals or freethinkers that I know of. People have always been gullible and prefer fakeness over truth. Truth isn't popular and doesn't sell. That's the way it's always been throughout history. It hasn't changed today. To have a lot of friends among the mainstream, or fit into most types of groups, you have to develop superficial personalities and lose your identity. That's the nature of groups and group think. The most authentic people tend to be hermits, for they do not have to lose their identity to fit in with others. They can just be themselves. Any time one is in a group, one loses their identity. Every great philosopher and thinker, from Arthur Schopenhauer to Mark Twain to Ayn Rand has commented on that. Popular people tend to be the fakest and have to BS more. Authentic people are less popular and do not like to BS, so they have fewer friends, but the friends they do have will be higher quality friends. That hasn't changed today. But that's another subject.

As to me posting my questions on your friends' blogs, well I was just trying to stir up some discussion. I saw that all your friends' blogs had only positive comments about you, so I knew that all the negative ones must have been edited out. Thus, I figured that my comments would be edited out as well, so I just went ahead and posted them anyway, since it only took seconds. I figured if I was lucky, the comments wouldn't be moderated and might stir up some discussion on a few blogs. That was my tactic. But I'm sure all your friends removed my comments or did not approve them anyway.

However, I did post a skeptical review of you on several of forums, including two of my own, and also my blog, which you already left a comment on. In the review, I included key links to your sites, so forum members could see your blog and claims, and make up their own mind. If you like, I can post your email response in those forums, so people can read your answers to my questions and get your side of things. Would that be ok?

Thanks for your response and time, and I apologize for antagonizing you.

Regards,
Winston

PS - Here are some discussion forums and blogs I posted my review of you in. You are welcome to participate in them.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2064
http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... hp?t=12176
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread786603/pg1
http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=194029
http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=2353943
http://intellectualexpat.blogspot.com/2 ... ncome.html "
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Scepcop » 17 Dec 2011, 15:40

Arouet, what do you make of Pat Flynn's response above?
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Scepcop » 17 Dec 2011, 16:18

Arouet,

Ok let me get this straight. This guy makes money by teaching others how to make money right? If so, then the key question is:

Does he have successful profitable businesses OUTSIDE of his "teaching people how to make money" business?

Of course he claims to. Here are his other online businesses that he claims are profitable. Have a look at them. Do you think they are really that profitable?

http://www.greenexamacademy.com
http://www.securityguardtraininghq.com

What do you think?

However, if he's not really successful outside of his "how to make money" blog, then isn't that a little shady or unethical? I mean, he is basically projecting to his money making fans, that he is a successful online entrepreneur OUTSIDE of his "teaching people how to make money" business, right? If that is not true, then that would make his claims unethical and deceptive. Right? Don't MLM's work the same way?

As I know, there are several primary ways one can make money online:

1. Provide a product or service that people are willing to pay for.
2. Serve as an online middle man and outsource work to others, and earn a cut from it.
3. Provide good web content that draws significant regular traffic. Then earn advertising revenue and affiliate commissions from that web traffic, and product/service sales as well. (that's what I do)
4. Do freelance work for others, such as freelance writing, editing, video editing, etc. on a contractual basis.
5. Provide some kind of personal service, such as consulting, teaching English to foreign students via Skype, etc.

Do you think making money by teaching people how to make money, falls into any of those categories?

I've never heard of monetizing one ebook and then getting $8,000 in the first month from it. I don't think even a super genius could pull that off, and even if he could, it would be a one in a million shot. The money usually trickles in slowly and builds up gradually. It doesn't start at $8,000 and go uphill from there. That sounds more like the promise of a get rich quick scheme (even if they don't call it that, but then again, who does these days?).

But anyway, what do you make of his $30,000 a month income claim? I'm sure he must make some decent money with all the high web traffic he gets. But is $30k a month an exaggeration?

Also, if he is so good, then how come none of his fans claim to be making what he makes? They all say they are only making a little, but that they derive "inspiration" from listening to him everyday. lol. What do you make of that?

On another note:

By the way, the owner of the free dating site, http://www.plentyoffish.com, Markus Frind, claims to make $10,000 A DAY just from paid Google links. Would Google really pay him that much, $10k a day, even if he had millions of people coming to his site everyday? Is that farfetched or realistic? That seems like an awful lot, even if you did have millions of hits everyday. Here is the story about him and his $10k a day income on YouTube:



An article about him in the NY times about making $10 million a year from his website.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/busin ... wanted=all

What do you think?
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Arouet » 17 Dec 2011, 19:28

Haven't gone through that long post yet Scepcp, but yes, I do think people like that guy are basically scam artists. It's an old game. He's making his money just by getting people to come to his site.

I also can believe that the plentyoffish guy is making a killing off his website. Websites can be big money. IGN.com a gaming website has something like 100 employees (IIRC) - they're primarily earning income from web hits.
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby ProfWag » 17 Dec 2011, 21:26

Arouet wrote:Haven't gone through that long post yet Scepcp, but yes, I do think people like that guy are basically scam artists. It's an old game. He's making his money just by getting people to come to his site.

I also can believe that the plentyoffish guy is making a killing off his website. Websites can be big money. IGN.com a gaming website has something like 100 employees (IIRC) - they're primarily earning income from web hits.

I had not heard this before I just now looked it up, but Don Lapre killed himself a couple months ago while awaiting trial on his fraudulent schemes bilking 200k people out of $52 million. He was the guy with the infomercial that he claims he started by selling ads from his "tiny one bedroom apartment."
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Craig Browning » 17 Dec 2011, 23:06

Some interesting points being made but one I didn't see is that more than 90% of the "businesses" started on line, fail! More than not, it's due to the proprietor loosing interest in that they are bringing in all that "easy" money everyone (like this particular ass-clown) raves about. They fail to realize that even the con-artist pour a ton of time and energy into the venture. . . 60-90 hour work weeks are normal and having to hemorrhage cash like a mad-man during that first 15-18 months in order to get established don't help.

1.) You need to have a target market in mind
* You need to have a good idea what service/product will appeal to that market

2.) You must then package (pitch) your item in a manner that makes it attractive/viable
* You must know up-front how to build value into the product and thus, maximize your profit factors.

These are the two primary rules when it comes to this sort of thing, especially when dealing with a "get-rich-quick" scheme. You are, in this particular example, appealing to the lazy bums that don't want to invest themselves into their career (architecture in this case). They want a quick and easy way to get that designation so they can go out and make millions selling a collection of faulty designs that just barely pass general inspection or "pass" only after the wine & dine routine has been presented to local inspectors.

Let's face it, cheat methods for exams have been a big $$$ commodity since the days of the second season college finals. There are kids that have taken over the business started by their elder siblings, selling test answers, etc. on compass for a few hundred bucks a shot, been going on forever and it's exactly what this clown's first ebook delivered.

Let's take his con a bit further; create a series of eBooks about "How to Get Your Contractor's License" or ". . . Pass the Cosmetology Exam", etc.

Believe it or not every one of these booklets would have more or less the same thing;
Cover Page with Title
Index Listing
An Intro Page filled with fluff
The Primary Text Which Reads. . . On the following pages you will find a list of schools from around the nation who specialize in this line of work. You will likewise find a list of the most commonly used text-books that you should avail yourself of while you are pending acceptance into the schools in you area.

Study as much as you can in order to get the best possible grades, this will assure you of positive consideration when it comes time to get some real world experience; employers love to see go-getters willing to invest in themselves and their dreams. The time to party will come with your success, so commit right now to doing things right. This is the secret so many miss when it comes to earning their degrees and moving ahead.


As noted, you include the resource lists and close with something akin to saying "And That's the Way it Is. . . Best of Luck in Your Venture!"

You may be able to get some legit endorsements from a handful of noted professionals as well as teachers & other writers that can be placed on the outside cover as well as the book ads. The more the merrier in that you need the fertilizer to help set the hook.

All going well, you will have sufficient material to frame this 12-20 page booklet that will cost you less than $5.00 ech to print & market and retail it for $75.00 (high) to $30.00 (low). Depending on how desperate people reading this add are, you will see order flowing in at descent speed PROVIDED you are exploiting a practical niche that is linked to a down-to-earth employment situation/career. The thing is, you are not misleading the buyer, you care delivering a proven method for passing the exams and launching a lucrative career as an Engineer, Chef, Travel Agent, Graphic Artist. . . you name it!

No, you aren't giving them the short-cut the ad deliberately hints at. When worded right the ad copy will deliver a very legal description of the services being sold and the product will fulfill the parameters of what the ad copy says you are buying. The sell of 400 copies at the low end price level will put $8k in your hand. Put on the market by mid-July (as people start looking at school) you can easily move that 400 copies and then some, based on the publications you use. Again, you must know your prospects; I'm thinking trailer trash. . . run ads in The Globe, National Enquirer, The Star and other such tabloids as well as banner placement all over the Internet (and of course, a solid SPAM campaign).

UNDERSTAND: that $5.00 per book cost will absorb all this preliminary venture (could go as high as $10.00 a book depending on aggressiveness of the campaign as well as sources used). My projection of 400 copies sold was based on a $20.00 per unit net. . . the low end to such a hustle. You can reconfigure this same basic package so that it looks like a really nice 6 DVD course with study & resource guide and have people more than willing to cough up $80 to $125 ish for it. Your approximate cost on such a package would not exceed $25.00, giving you a $55.00 to $100.00 profit margin per unit

The point is, it's easy to run the con and create that illuminated portrait around yourself and what you offer. . . the good you do for others. There are ways of making this particular hustle work for you in others ways, including commissions from the schools, publishers, etc.

The guys that offer you "lessons" in how to exploit the opportunities out there already know that fewer than 5% of the people that buy the program will even try it let alone follow through and make it happen. This is why Tony Robbins and all those Real Estate pitchmen do FREE seminars; you establish trust & rapport, they buy your starter kit and based on the psychological boost gained, you are almost guaranteed a follow-up sell to more than 35% of your original investors (most of whom I now purchasing the $500.00 course vs. the $150.00 course).

Pardon my rambling here, but this is elementary con-work. I can't say for certain that what this individual sells is pure scam, only that it smells familiar.
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Scepcop » 18 Dec 2011, 01:00

You guys,
Rather than speculate based on your experiences, or generalize, why don't you visit the guy's website yourselves and judge him on an individual basis?

http://www.smartpassiveincome.com

Try it and let me know what you think. Objective direct inquiry is the only way we are going to get somewhere. Don't just sit and speculate. Good investigators don't do that. They look at the evidence directly.
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Re: Pat Flynn - Does he really make $30k a month? I'm skepti

Postby Arouet » 18 Dec 2011, 01:14

You have an affiliate deal with this guy Scepcop? :)
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