Discussions about Psychics and Psychic Phenomena, Extra Sensory Perception, Telepathy, Psi, Clairvoyancy, 6th Sense, Psychokinesis, etc.
Well well, look what we have here. Dr. Michael Persinger, the famous Neuroscientist at Ontario University, an Atheist hailed by skeptics for his "God helmet" experiments as being evidence against NDE's being evidence for an afterlife, has turned the tables on his skeptic admirers by announcing that he has now discovered a proven telepathic link in his experiments with test subjects connected by magnetic fields. See his interview and lecture below.
http://www.skeptiko.com/michael-persing ... thic-link/
Neuroscience Researcher and Laurentian University professor, Dr. Michael Persinger, demonstrates telepathy under laboratory conditions.
Claims of telepathy, ESP and other psi phenomena are a mainstay of popular culture but taboo in neuroscience research circles. Fortunately, Dr. Michael Persinger of Canada’s Laurentian University has never been afraid to venture where other researchers fear to go. In the 1980′s Persinger made headlines with his “God Helmet”, a device that stimulates temporal lobes with a weak magnetic field in order to produce religious states.
Now, Persinger has discovered the same type of brain stimulation can create metal states conducive to human telepathy. “What we have found is that if you place two different people at a distance and put a circular magnetic field around both, and you make sure they are connected to the same computer so they get the same stimulation, then if you flash a light in one person’s eye the person in the other room receiving just the magnetic field will show changes in their brain as if they saw the flash of light. We think that’s tremendous because it may be the first macro demonstration of a quantum connection, or so-called quantum entanglement. If true, then there’s another way of potential communication that may have physical applications, for example, in space travel.”
While Persinger’s experiments could prove groundbreaking, he remains doubtful about his controversial findings reaching his colleagues, “I think the critical thing about science is to be open-minded. It’s really important to realize that the true subject matter of science is the pursuit of the unknown. Sadly scientists have become extraordinarily group-oriented. Our most typical critics are not are mystic believer types. They are scientists who have a narrow vision of what the world is like.”
Listen to the interview at:
http://www.skeptiko.com/michael-persing ... thic-link/
Download the interview at:
http://www.skeptiko.com/upload/skeptiko ... singer.mp3
Here is another article about Persinger's discovery and lecture video:
http://www.dailygrail.com/Mind-Mysterie ... -Telepathy
Michael Persinger: 'No More Secrets' with Telepathy
Posted by Greg at 02:53, 17 May 2011
Dr Michael Persinger of Laurentian University quickly became the science darling of skeptics and atheists a decade ago with news of his 'God Helmet', which appeared to show that 'sensed presence' of supernatural entities (and/or 'God') may be simply due to magnetic disturbance of the brain. Since then however, Persinger has not made himself an overly attractive science reference for skeptics as he has been involved with, and claims to have achieved positive results in, experimental parapsychology.
Earlier this year, Persinger gave the following lecture, titled "No More Secrets". In it, he detailed his theories on the connection between magnetic fields and the brain, in particular how this relationship could facilitate telepathy and remote viewing. He notes particular experiments and individuals (Ingo Swann, Sean Harribance) that seem to give evidence supporting his theories, and makes some fairly extraordinary claims which I'm sure will lead to some debate.
I had never seen Persinger lecture before - he's a great presenter, and with his usual suit and pocket watch, and precise mannerisms, makes for a fair caricature of an eccentric scientist. Whether you agree or disagree with his theories and evidence, it's still worth a watch just for some of the oblique insights that he has (e.g. when discussing the minuteness of fields involved, "don't think of 'bigness' as being important, it's the pattern that is important"). A worthy time investment for any science fiction writer...
The lecture is around 36 minutes long, and is followed by almost 20 minutes of questions and answers. The title of the lecture emerges from the extrapolation of telepathy as a barely understood phenomenon, to a talent that all humans could use to know what was in any other person's brain. What would it be like if there were 'No More Secrets'?
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
Old news, but yes, pretty interesting. I like Persinger's work. He looks into these things and is actually looking for mechanisms. Though he's not a Sheldrake or a Radin. He takes a natural approach to these things, not a psi approach.
I was shocked by this news though. I thought Persinger was one of those "there is no evidence for anything paranormal" types like Shermer and Randi? So he isn't one of them? In past documentaries he seemed like a closed minded skeptic who would only accept reductionist explanations for everything.
He's not closed minded, he looks into these things, but I don't think he thinks there's anything magical going on. Take a look at his God helmet for example, which shermer tried on as did Dawkins.
You don't really understand Shermer so you think he's closed-minded.
For that matter, I'm not sure if you understand what's going on in this experiment. It's not telepathy as you imagine it.
Everyone claims to not be closed minded. But the fact is that they have rigid belief systems that REJECT new info that doesn't fit into it. Shermer is no exception. He advocates one side and dismisses another and rejects data all the time. I've seen him do it on TV. Shermer is easy to understand - endorse the official explanation and mundane reductionist explanation for eveything, and reject everything outside of it. Nothing special about that.
Persinger sounded closed minded cause he said that his "God Helmet" showed that all NDE's and OBE's were caused by the brain only. He didn't consider the data that didn't support that, such as the research compiled by Dr. Jeffrey Long.
Arouet, you are all talk and denial, as usual.
Facts are facts. Stop obfuscating them.
If Persinger wasn't talking about telepathy, then what was he talking about? Some people do have a connection to each other that distance doesn't block. That is true. Twins or lovers often have this type of connection. No mundane explanation can explain it. End of story.
Sorry Winston, my Irony meter just pegged out.
"It is proper for you to doubt ... do not go upon report ... do not go upon tradition ... do not go upon hear-say." ~ Buddha
Here, use mine!
Then what is it? Stop trying to play dumb. This is REAL. But even Persinger doesn't know how telepathy works. He just knows that it is REAL. I just saw an episode of "Through the Wormhole" with Morgan Freeman called "Is there a sixth sense?" in which Persinger was interviewed. He said that it's been established that thoughts really can travel outside the mind across space and time, but he doesn't know how.
So WTF are you to say whether this is telepathy as I know it is not? You are being a butthead denialist again. This is REAL. This is an established neuroscientist and atheist whom skeptics hail for his "God helmet" experiments, turning the tables against his pseudoskeptic admirers, leaving them speechless. They thought he was one of them. But now he presents findings that these pseudoskeptics don't like. Oh the irony! lol
You can download that episode of "Through the Wormhole" on PirateBay.org. Just download the torrent for the second season and select the episode you want to download. You don't have to download the whole season. There is an episode on the sixth sense and one on the afterlife that are interesting.
In that episode, physicist Michio Kaku, a popularizer of science, who is also an atheist, also said that telepathy is very real.
This is HUGE. To have atheist scientists who don't believe in God or the supernatural come out and say that the existence of ESP has been well established is HUGE! It proves that pseudoskeptics like you and JREF were WRONG ALL ALONG! JUST AS I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG! WE WERE RIGHT! YOU WERE WRONG! And I knew it ALL ALONG!
Be a man and ADMIT IT! You and JREF were WRONG on this issue. Deal with it! YOU WERE WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!
So admit it. Fess up, and stop playing stupid mind control tricks. They won't work on me. I'm immune to them. We were right all along and you know it.
Here is a public lecture in which Persinger explains his findings that thoughts really do travel outside the mind. Watch and learn. Stop playing stupid mind games.
I know that Persinger has done some very interesting stuff. I've tried desparately, however, to find his published report on his findings and haven't found anything yet. Winston, any idea where I could find that?
Also, I'm curious as to why you equate being an atheist with not believing in ESP? As far as I know, the two are totally unrelated.
Some persinger stuff has been linked on the Skeptiko site. his writing is terrible though, in the sense that he writes purely for an academic audience and makes very little effort, imo, to pander to the lay person.
Scepcop: you know that the experiment you're referring to is not thoughts being broadcast and received, right? It's interesting, certainly, but its not telepathy like we think about it when we refer to the term.
I like persinger's approach to these issues though. He's trying to actually identify mechanisms. And he's contributing to our understanding of how our bodies react to the environment: such as by geomagnetic fields.
Dr. Rupert Sheldrake, a distinguished biologist and author, has also conducted noteworthy telepathy experiments that have confirmed the existence of ESP. In his books, such as "Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home" and "The Sense of Being Stared At", he has documented telepathic experiments involving animals knowing in advance when their owners were coming home, and humans who were able to demonstrate consistent above chance that they could sense when they were being stared at. His findings were so airtight and irrefutable in fact, that arch debunker James Randi could do nothing but use cheap ad hominem attacks on him and his research.
Dr. Sheldrake believes that a “morphic resonance field” exists between humans and animals, which account for the existence of telepathy. You can learn more about Dr. Sheldrake’s research and books on his website at:
I just saw his public lecture video I linked above. It was great. Very educational. I highly recommend it to you all. His explanations were very clear and articulate too. There were some good question and answers from the audience afterward as well.
Well the point is, telepathy is a proven fact. Paranormalists have not made absolute claims as to the mechanisms. So this does not challenge "telepathy as we know it". You aren't making sense with that term.
Persinger is attributing this telepathy he discovered with the earth's geomagnetic field. His experiments also involved a magnetic field between the test subjects. It is a sort of "quantum entanglement" as Dean Radin said. Somehow, this magnetic field contains a mechanism for telepathy.
Whatever the mechanism, the bottom line is that WE WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG that minds are linked to each other even though the people may be apart. In 1995, I woke up knowing that my girlfriend had been in a car accident. An hour later she called me to tell me that it happened. It wasn't a feeling, but a knowing. Examples like that are very common. I knew back then, in 1995, that it was telepathy. And now, science has proven that I WAS RIGHT!
This is a huge point for the paranormalists, and a huge point against the JREF crowd. Randi said that telepathy doesn't exist and that there was no proof for it. Well, he was WRONG!
Persinger ought to apply for the JREF Challenge. He could use the million to fund more experiments in telepathy.
I haven't been able to find them either. I'll let you know if I do though. For now, why don't you watch his public lecture at the video I linked above? It's very interesting and informative.
In it, he talks about the implication of this, that it would not allow governments and the elite to keep secrets and control people. Wow. lol. I didn't know he was against governments keeping secrets. lol. He sounded almost like a conspiracy theorist there. lol He also said that if we were all connected to an empathetic mind, in which we felt the suffering of everyone else in the world, that it would help end wars and poverty. Fascinating implications. Perhaps we really are reaching an era of "global consciousness" after all?
Persinger noted another interesting thing in the lecture - that when you use an MS Windows operating system, it seems to block remote viewing/ESP, as Ingo Swann found. That's interesting. I wonder if that is deliberate. If so, it may mean Microsoft is in on the "suppression of human global consciousness" too. lol
Well, usually atheists also believe that all paranormal phenomena is bunk, at least that's true of the CSICOP and JREF crowd. It's just a usual pattern.
Here are some more related lectures to watch:
Contents of the lectures:
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