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[ProfWag]

I feel like I'm getting some negative vibes out there simply because I tend to believe what I've seen, read, heard, studied, and experienced, so please allow me a few lines to cut through some of the bullsh!t and express where I come from when I state that I can't believe in most of the theories that run rampant.

Immediately after 9/11, my wife was sent off to the Middle East for 15 months to fight a war for my country. 4 years later, I was sent off to the Middle East for 6 months to do the same thing. I have experienced first-hand the hatred that Al Qaeda has for Americans. Unless you've ever sat in an outhouse hoping to get 5 minutes of sanity, only to have an IED go off 100 yards away that makes you finish your job in a gas mask, you may not completely understand just how much American ideals are dispised. I have looked at the complete lack of terror that a 12 year old boy has in his eyes as he has been trained from day one to hate me because I am an American. So yea, when I am criticized for not believing that our government and/or our social leaders were behind those attacks, I take it very personally.

I held a high security clearance and I was priviledged to sit through some briefings that I won't be able to discuss publicly for years to come. What I can say is that I know, from extremely high levels, that most of the "theories" out there are pure imagination. A few years ago, I had dinner with my wife and her former boss who was a prosecuter at Gitmo and I can assure you that the prisoners there do NOT believe in anything other than their "successful mission" and they are quite proud of themselves.

For such an elaborate "hoax" to have been successful, there would have had to have been so many people involved that you would lose count after a couple thousand. And although I cannot speak for everyone, the men and women in my unit overseas would come to me if they saw a fellow airman pocket a package of yellow stickies. So to answer Syd's question from a few pasts back, yes, not only do I believe, but I know that people would speak out if there was talk of an "inside job," especially to the magnitude of 9/11.

Thanks for your time.

[Misha]

Hi ProWag. I found your post honest and forthright. Let me ponder and collect my thoughts on what you say. One thing I want to make clear to you and the people on this forum is that I support and stand with you guys and gals who are over there fighting. You folks who fight did not set policy and subvert the constitution. I may disagree with the war and its precedent. But, with all things being said you won't find me sitting on anti-aircraft gun or betraying prisoners of war. You guys have to fight to survive while over there. In essence, I am very much close to how Scott Ritter feels and his position.

[NinjaPuppy]

[SydneyPSIder]

Can we wind history back a bit and ask why Americans in particular are despised so much in that part of the world? vs, say, Swedes or Australians?

(Australians might come in a close second now because the govt is a govt of Anglosphere lapdogs and poodles and colonial mercenaries that does as it is told for fear of losing an 'alliance'.)

I think I asked a long way back why, if 15 Saudi + citizens perpetrated the act, where Saudi Arabia is an oil ally of the US with bases, etc, then why wold you attack Iraq and Afghanistan? Iraq was furnished with WMD sold exclusively by the UK and US hopefully in order to use them against Iran, which were known to have been subsequently destroyed, and Afghanis were trained and armed by the US solely to fight Russians.

Dose anyone really believe they 'hate our freedoms'? Suggestion: look at the affair with in 1952, where Britain was miffed that the discount oil it had been getting from Iran might go up to the price the Saudis were getting -- this was the Anglo-Iranian oil company that became BP, and Winston Churchill himself had a lot of shares and thereby a conflict of interest. He was a racist and viewed middle eastern oil as peculiarly belonging to Britain, after the convenient carve-up of those territories at the end of WWI into 'spheres of influence', breaking their promises of recognising arab nationalism which helped to win the war. MI6 and the CIA deposed the democratically elected leader of Iran and instated the Shah as a western-friendly puppet, which only paved the way for the ayatollahs in a popular backlash.

The US could not get a resolution from the UN Security Council to go into a country or two on a pretext, but they went in anyway, and lo! there were no WMD. Interesting times. While I agree it's not much fun for the virtual conscript US army (a rare 1st world country with time-limited unemployment benefits), that is the militarised country you've created. Annual US expenditure on the military is greater than the next 10 countries combined and comprises nearly 50% of the world spend on arms. It's not just about the Pax Americana, either.

The case characters like Colin Powell made for war, knowing full well there were no WMD there, was just a miserable beat-up to go get access to oil. it was just obvious to the rest of the world, it was a war of empty words, a war of propaganda. The rest of the world doesn't get a bizarre Republican right-wing blizzard of misinformation thrown at them, and simply judges what they see. No other country in the world appears as right-wing and self-interested with a mostly desluisional population who are so brainwashed by the rhetoric they vote against their own interests. You think people in the rest of world can't see the pretexts?

[ProfWag]

[ProfWag]

[SydneyPSIder]

Afghanistan isn't even really a country, just a loose collection of tribes forced into national borders by European colonial powers in a post-colonial carve-up of installing puppet leaders over regions.

Look back at Britain's worst ever military defeat to gain an impression of the hill tribes over the last couple of hundred years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_o ... e%27s_army

And the Russian experience in the 1980s. Afghanistan has been in the middle of The Great Game between European superpowers for over 200 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Game

[SydneyPSIder]

[ProfWag]

[SydneyPSIder]

[ProfWag]

[SydneyPSIder]

Oh well, beer talk killed that topic...

I think some sort of bunker buster missile hit the Pentagon, explaining the cordite smell reported by many experienced servicemen in the building, the whoosh etc by witnesses, the shockwave of an explosion that was felt. I'm curious to know exactly which bunker buster type it was. There may also have been planted explosives beforehand in the walls etc.

That tends to throw the whole Barbara/Ted Olson thing out the window, as raised above -- he either arranged to have her killed, or she just left the country and is living as an expat in Sweden or somewhere under a new name because she wanted to -- paid off by the 'victim's compensation' money claimed from a lot of non-existent victims. Further, if there was any doubt about it, we know mobile phone calls are impossible from planes travelling at any height and speed.

Then there was the Cheney stand down order as the plane came in closer to the Pentagon, as openly testified by Norman Maneta. The understanding is that it passed overhead and landed elsewhere.

The area of the Pentagon that was hit was occupied by auditors looking for a hidden $1 trillion Pentagon overhead, with the only paper records with them, now no longer.

http://www.911review.org/Wiki/PentagonA ... last.shtml

[ProfWag]

[SydneyPSIder]

[ProfWag]