Do you believe that they really killed Bin Laden?

[Scepcop]

Some of you guys are really stupid and believe everything you hear and take it on faith without any proof. A real skeptic doesn't do that or take everything they hear on faith. I'm one of the few real skeptics here. I'm shocked at how gullible or dishonest a lot of you are. You have zero proof that this story is true, and yet you believe it like sheep and act as though it's an established fact, just because authority said it. You guys are propagandists for the official version of things. Not skeptics.

BBC report says that the Osama Bin Laden raid was a fake.

[Twain Shakespeare]

Got to get a word processing program. Just lost a 2000 word response trying to go from preview to edit.

All I will say is, This time Scecop is right on when he almost came out and said you are functioning like a lot of pseudo-skeptics and protecting the official line. Protecting the official line for the AMA against it financial competition from holistic medicine or Christian science or such might be stupid and/or vicious, even evil if people die, but the US government boasts it creates reality regardless of facts and has the right to kill you. Defending them is stupid, vicious, evil, and dangerous to us all, but it is safer than contradicting them.

[Twain Shakespeare]

Read Robert Anton Wilson on the functions and evolutionary operations of "conspicacies".

"Communication (Candor about the truth) (typically) only (occurs) between equals."
He states it more strongly.

[Twain Shakespeare]

I get it, SCECOP didn't post this. ProfWag did. Prof, I respect you and admire you, and value your insight, however "pseudoskeptical" I find some of it, but as the pansy pacifist child of at least 300 years worth of yoeman soldiers, you do scare the shit out of me, sometimes, when I realize you may be a bigger mass murderer than my Dad, who told me he has killed more people than he could put in a VW van. No value judgment. All my male ancestors seemed to have killed people, and most women I know have murdered at least one child. Shit happens. Its no reason to invent a religion or any big deal from the point of view of stars and stones.
So, having "reassured" you of my good intentions and the mildness of my criticism, I will risk telling you I perceive you as functioning more like a pseudoskeptic as defined by SCECOP and Robert Anton Wilson than any of the others here, although we all may lapse. I don't notice myself doing it that often, but if you or anyone else do catch me behaving as a a pseudoskeptic, please call me out. Again, I respect your intelligence, experience, and judgment. You may be right, on at least one level, in all of your readings on this issue. Then again, you may be overwhelmingly wrong. I do not know, and I have no opinion I would state with any confidence except that institutions are, by definition, incapable of telling, or even perceiving, the "truth", as Robert Anton Wilson explained in Prometheus Rising Chapter 16, "The SNAFU Principle." Please, everyone, read it if you can. I t may be three decades old, but it is more true than ever. It also contains the information on the evolution and function of "conspiracies" referred to above.

[ProfWag]

...when I realize you may be a bigger mass murderer than my Dad, who told me he has killed more people than he could put in a VW van...

Uhhhh, excuse me? Would you care to explain this statement about me please?

I'll readily admit that I may not be as open minded to some issues as Scepcop and others, but believing (or knowing) that bin Laden was killed in a raid last May in a raid is not really being pseudoskeptical when the opinion is based on facts, friends, knowledge, and personal experience.

[Nostradamus]

Some of you guys are really stupid and believe everything you hear and take it on faith without any proof. A real skeptic doesn't do that or take everything they hear on faith. I'm one of the few real skeptics here. I'm shocked at how gullible or dishonest a lot of you are. You have zero proof that this story is true, and yet you believe it like sheep and act as though it's an established fact, just because authority said it. You guys are propagandists for the official version of things. Not skeptics.

You believe anything including the height illusion.

Dumb is unable to learn. Stupid is you - unwilling to learn.

You have posted hoax after hoax after hoax after hoax which even a kid would easily identify as a hoax.

[ProfWag]

Some of you guys are really stupid and believe everything you hear and take it on faith without any proof. A real skeptic doesn't do that or take everything they hear on faith. I'm one of the few real skeptics here.

Winston, I hate to tell you but actually, everything you post is based on faith rather than proof. I could easily prove it if you would like me to go back and post some of your own words--especially what you've said about Icke and White. Remember, you'e said we should have "open minds" and if that's the case, that's faith rather than proof.

[Scepcop]

Skeptics,
Since the US government has lied about many things - the rescue of Jessica Lynch, the death of Pat Tillman, the Gulf of Tonkin Incident, the air being safe to breath at Ground Zero on 9/11, the cell phone calls at 30,000 feet on 9/11, etc. how do you know what to believe and what not to believe?

Why is everything official always the truth? What is your basis for that belief? You've never answered this question.

In any case, there's a new Hollywood film about the hunt for Bin Laden.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1790885/

Trailer

[ProfWag]

Skeptics,
Since the US government has lied about many things - the rescue of Jessica Lynch, the death of Pat Tillman, the Gulf of Tonkin Incident, the air being safe to breath at Ground Zero on 9/11, the cell phone calls at 30,000 feet on 9/11, etc. how do you know what to believe and what not to believe?

Why is everything official always the truth? What is your basis for that belief? You've never answered this question.

Winston, you piss me off so much that I wish I could reach through this computer screen and flick your ear and tell you to wake the hell up!
Arouet, really?, and I have shown time and time again where we don't believe "everything official." We just don't believe what essentially amounts to a bunch of sh!t.
I don't know how many freaking times I have to tell you about the cell phone calls. Jeezus H Krist would you wake the hell up!
P.S. Don't forget about being lied to concerning the Libya attack that killed an Ambassador--or are you not into this year's current events yet?

[Misha]

Guys, have any of you read David Ray Griffin's book - "Osama Bin Laden, Dead or Alive?" If not, please do. It's an instructive read which underscores that the intelligence community was split when Bin Laden died. I have asked a couple of NYPD detectives what they thought about the Bin Laden's death. Both responses were - "Where's the body?" Yes, I understand Muslim law whereby the body must be buried within 24 hours. However, why didn't the United States insure the international community within the 24 hour period that this indeed was Bin Laden's body? Let me know if there was any confirmation other than the U.S.

[Arouet]

Yeah, I must say that the US government couldn't have carried that out more suspiciously if they tried. However, if Bin Laden is alive and not captured, what better way to embarass the americans by showing up?

[Misha]

Yeah, I must say that the US government couldn't have carried that out more suspiciously if they tried. However, if Bin Laden is alive and not captured, what better way to embarass the americans by showing up?

More importantly, how in the hell can Obama justify pulling out of Afghanistan if Bin Laden is not verified dead? Yeah, I'll say it. It stinks to high heaven! The NYPD detectives even said it stinks.

[Arouet]

Well, he may believe that bin laden was verified dead.

[SydneyPSIder]

It is pretty suspicious,and amounts to an odd extrajudicial killing if it were true.

They think bin Laden died in around 2001, possibly at Tora Bora. Or just died of kidney failure somewhere at that time. The more recent videos of him show him as a fat Indian, and another one where has mysteriously gone from being left-handed to right-handed, and is wearing a gold ring on one finger, something that a devout Muslim never does, especially not a supposed spiritual leader like OBL. The audio gets muddier and muddier on each 'discovered' video found under beds in village dwellings. Talk about using body doubles. He won't be showing up later to embarrass anyone if he's been dead for 11 years.

OBL was some kind of CIA asset and patsy, and 'Al Qaeda' were the guys trained by the US on 'the list'.

Brownie points for Obama coming into the election (but not too close to the election), stymied by the recent Libyan incident to 'Jimmy Carter' him, and as Misha points out, a reason to withdraw from Afghanistan. But then does Unocal still want to get a pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan and Pakistan? Pakistan getting framed and softened up for a pipeline concession? There seem to be a lot of anti-Pakistan stories suddenly coming out, from Christians under attack to the 14 year old girl -- you begin to wonder the veracity of the stories, or is it just drumming up support for something? I know stories of Taliban oppressing women and girls annoys me...

[Arouet]

It is pretty suspicious,and amounts to an odd extrajudicial killing if it were true.

They think bin Laden died in around 2001, possibly at Tora Bora. Or just died of kidney failure somewhere at that time. The more recent videos of him show him as a fat Indian, and another one where has mysteriously gone from being left-handed to right-handed, and is wearing a gold ring on one finger, something that a devout Muslim never does, especially not a supposed spiritual leader like OBL. The audio gets muddier and muddier on each 'discovered' video found under beds in village dwellings. Talk about using body doubles. He won't be showing up later to embarrass anyone if he's been dead for 11 years..

If someone has proof that he died 11 years ago (ie: has his remains) that would also greatly embarass the U.S.

I'm not saying that its not possible - just that I would think there would be many ways for anti-americans in Afghanistan to use this to their advantage if they had any evidence of it.