Pat Flynn - Is he a scam? Does he make what he claims?

[Scepcop]

Hi all,
I've been looking over the blog of a popular internet marketing guru, , at http://www.smartpassiveincome.com. It is very helpful and generous with all its free advice and instructions for generating online passive income and creating websites to do that with. He is definitely very knowledgeable.

However, I can't help but be a bit skeptical of his personal success claims. First, he tells us in his intro 101 page that making money online is not easy. It takes a lot of hard work and time to build up. That's true. See here:

http://www.smartpassiveincome.com/passive-income-101/

But then he claims in his interviews and story that he made $8000 in his first month off of selling one ebook about how to pass an architect license exam. Then he says he made over $200,000 in his first year, and that he now makes over $30,000 monthly. That seems to contradict his teaching that it takes a lot of time and effort to make money online, doesn't it, since he claimed to get rich quickly.

Here are his monthly income reports where it shows his monthly build up of $8k a month to $30k:

http://www.smartpassiveincome.com/my-income-reports/

Here are his interviews where he makes these claims:

http://www.incomediary.com/pat-flynn
http://www.entrepreneurs-journey.com/1860/pat-flynn/
http://www.blogtrepreneur.com/2010/12/2 ... rst-month/

Now, I've been making money online for three years, and I know many others who are doing it too. So I have some good knowledge and experience in this area, and I know that making $8000 during your first month, especially selling one ebook, is an extraordinary claim. After three years, I'm only pulling in a few thousand a month, but that's after a slow steady traffic build up that involved hard work and production of good content, with no secret formulas. So based on my experience, his claims of success and quick high profits are extraordinary.

He doesn't seem to have any proof of these claims. Yet all his fans seem to believe everything he says, based on their comments in his blog and on other third party blogs as well. To them, all his claims are true. If he says it, then it's true. Amazingly, on the internet, there are no critical reviews of him. There are dozens of blogs that praise him, with many positive comments under them, but no critical ones (could the bloggers have edited out all negative comments?). Everyone says he is the real deal. But how do they know? Where is the evidence or proof? Online, anyone can say anything.

His sample passive income business sites do look great though, and are ranked very high. So he definitely must have a lot of traffic coming in, which would give him good income. But there are many sites out there that look great with web 2.0 graphics and nifty wordpress themes, but they ain't making shit. Here are his online businesses so you can see them for yourself.

This one was created as part of an online contest with another internet marketing guru to see who could create a better new passive income site, and ended up generating $2000 a month for him:

http://www.securityguardtraininghq.com

Here is his original online business that he allegedly became successful and rich off of:

http://www.greenexamacademy.com

On his blog teaching people how to make passive income, he gives a lot of free advice and information, which his fans say is very generous and altruistic of him. However, within his free advice blog are embedded various affiliate links to a number of website optimization products that claim to help get traffic to your site, which you have to pay for of course. So I wonder if that's why he's giving out so much free advice, to get commissions on these SEO products? It's hard to believe that he would do it for nothing or do it out of altruism.

Could it be that he is making more money off his "making passive income blog" than off of his online businesses themselves?

But what evidence is there to back his $30k a month income claims? Why hasn't he posted screen shots of his Adsense report earnings, or monthly PayPal transactions? But even those are easy to fake. Anyone can download or save a webpage offline, and then manipulate the HTML in it to produce any numbers they want. On the internet, anyone can claim anything. Even in Amway and other MLM's, lots of people making nothing are claiming to be doing well and pulling in thousands of dollars per month. It doesn't mean it's all true.

Furthermore, if Pat Flynn really made $30k a month, why is he always wearing cheap looking worn out T-shirts in his video interviews? See this one for example:



In his self intro on his home page, same thing.



In my experience, people who really are pulling in a lot of income do not like to draw public attention to it, unless they are celebrities. There are negative consequences to doing that. Especially if you are making a lot of money online, it is not in one's best interest to publicize it, for it will draw bad people, and incite others to follow your business model and create copycat versions of your site, which could potentially jeopardize your income. No rational person would want to do that.

In addition, there is an old adage that says: "You cannot make a lot of money by telling people the truth". I wonder if that applies here. Another witty quote says:

"The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth." - H. L. Mencken

So it makes sense to be skeptical here, doesn't it?

What do you all think?

[Arouet]

Couple website valuators valuated his site at $450,000. But remember this guy makes his money by getting people to click on his site and probably selling BS products.

If you can create a site with a lot of traffic, you can certainly make good money. You might want to take some actual marketing courses. Get rich quick sites tend to get no one rich but he site owners.

[Scepcop]

[Arouet]

google: "how much is this website worth". I did two of them plugging in his website and they each came up with similar numbers, so they seem to be using similar indicators.

Scepcop, of course he's bullshitting. How many people do you think are taking an architecture licensing exam each month? And there's not just one exam, different countries, states, etc. are going to have different ways of regulating it, there are probably thousands of such exams around. Of those people, how many are going to buy some ebook on how to pass it rather than study the course material they have.

I didn't click on that site (don't want to give him more hits) but I would take with a grain of salt absolutely EVERYTHING on that site.

How does he get so many hits? Because lots of people google: Make money from home, and I'm sure his site comes up a lot. I wouldn't trust a testimonial.

If you have money to burn, I guess you can try his products. But my guess is that you'll only end up benefiting him, not you.

[Scepcop]

[Scepcop]

FYI, when I started making online income, I was making under $100 a month. After three years of slow traffic build up and content generation, I now make over $900 a month from about 10 different income streams. That's on my other site: http://www.happierabroad.com

But I had no secret formulas. It was all from traffic build up, links, email lists, and content generation, which led to more and more advertising revenue, sponsorships and commissions. But I started making under $100 a month. I didn't start with $8,000. Sheesh. Did I do something wrong? lol Does Pat Flynn have some secret formula that makes $8,000 fall into his lap in the first month? lol That's crazy.

He now says he makes $2,000 a month from this site, which he built up as an experiment for a contest.
http://www.securityguardtraininghq.com

Check it out. What do you think? Do you see anything on that site that would generate $2,000 a month?

Also, if he was making $30k a month, why would he be wearing worn out t-shirts? I'd be wearing designer clothing if I had that kind of income. lol

[Arouet]

Scepcop, his business is getting you to click on his sites. You're helping his business by directing traffic to his sites. He selling the dream of making easy money. As you know, its not so easy. He's not gonig to have anything to offer you.

[Scepcop]

[Scepcop]

Arouet, what do you make of Pat Flynn's response above?

[Scepcop]

Arouet,

Ok let me get this straight. This guy makes money by teaching others how to make money right? If so, then the key question is:

Does he have successful profitable businesses OUTSIDE of his "teaching people how to make money" business?

Of course he claims to. Here are his other online businesses that he claims are profitable. Have a look at them. Do you think they are really that profitable?

http://www.greenexamacademy.com
http://www.securityguardtraininghq.com

What do you think?

However, if he's not really successful outside of his "how to make money" blog, then isn't that a little shady or unethical? I mean, he is basically projecting to his money making fans, that he is a successful online entrepreneur OUTSIDE of his "teaching people how to make money" business, right? If that is not true, then that would make his claims unethical and deceptive. Right? Don't MLM's work the same way?

As I know, there are several primary ways one can make money online:

1. Provide a product or service that people are willing to pay for.
2. Serve as an online middle man and outsource work to others, and earn a cut from it.
3. Provide good web content that draws significant regular traffic. Then earn advertising revenue and affiliate commissions from that web traffic, and product/service sales as well. (that's what I do)
4. Do freelance work for others, such as freelance writing, editing, video editing, etc. on a contractual basis.
5. Provide some kind of personal service, such as consulting, teaching English to foreign students via Skype, etc.

Do you think making money by teaching people how to make money, falls into any of those categories?

I've never heard of monetizing one ebook and then getting $8,000 in the first month from it. I don't think even a super genius could pull that off, and even if he could, it would be a one in a million shot. The money usually trickles in slowly and builds up gradually. It doesn't start at $8,000 and go uphill from there. That sounds more like the promise of a get rich quick scheme (even if they don't call it that, but then again, who does these days?).

But anyway, what do you make of his $30,000 a month income claim? I'm sure he must make some decent money with all the high web traffic he gets. But is $30k a month an exaggeration?

Also, if he is so good, then how come none of his fans claim to be making what he makes? They all say they are only making a little, but that they derive "inspiration" from listening to him everyday. lol. What do you make of that?

On another note:

By the way, the owner of the free dating site, http://www.plentyoffish.com, Markus Frind, claims to make $10,000 A DAY just from paid Google links. Would Google really pay him that much, $10k a day, even if he had millions of people coming to his site everyday? Is that farfetched or realistic? That seems like an awful lot, even if you did have millions of hits everyday. Here is the story about him and his $10k a day income on YouTube:



An article about him in the NY times about making $10 million a year from his website.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/busin ... wanted=all

What do you think?

[Arouet]

Haven't gone through that long post yet Scepcp, but yes, I do think people like that guy are basically scam artists. It's an old game. He's making his money just by getting people to come to his site.

I also can believe that the plentyoffish guy is making a killing off his website. Websites can be big money. IGN.com a gaming website has something like 100 employees (IIRC) - they're primarily earning income from web hits.

[ProfWag]

[Craig Browning]

Some interesting points being made but one I didn't see is that more than 90% of the "businesses" started on line, fail! More than not, it's due to the proprietor loosing interest in that they are bringing in all that "easy" money everyone (like this particular ass-clown) raves about. They fail to realize that even the con-artist pour a ton of time and energy into the venture. . . 60-90 hour work weeks are normal and having to hemorrhage cash like a mad-man during that first 15-18 months in order to get established don't help.

1.) You need to have a target market in mind
* You need to have a good idea what service/product will appeal to that market

2.) You must then package (pitch) your item in a manner that makes it attractive/viable
* You must know up-front how to build value into the product and thus, maximize your profit factors.

These are the two primary rules when it comes to this sort of thing, especially when dealing with a "get-rich-quick" scheme. You are, in this particular example, appealing to the lazy bums that don't want to invest themselves into their career (architecture in this case). They want a quick and easy way to get that designation so they can go out and make millions selling a collection of faulty designs that just barely pass general inspection or "pass" only after the wine & dine routine has been presented to local inspectors.

Let's face it, cheat methods for exams have been a big $$$ commodity since the days of the second season college finals. There are kids that have taken over the business started by their elder siblings, selling test answers, etc. on compass for a few hundred bucks a shot, been going on forever and it's exactly what this clown's first ebook delivered.

Let's take his con a bit further; create a series of eBooks about "How to Get Your Contractor's License" or ". . . Pass the Cosmetology Exam", etc.

Believe it or not every one of these booklets would have more or less the same thing;
Cover Page with Title
Index Listing
An Intro Page filled with fluff
The Primary Text Which Reads. . . On the following pages you will find a list of schools from around the nation who specialize in this line of work. You will likewise find a list of the most commonly used text-books that you should avail yourself of while you are pending acceptance into the schools in you area.

Study as much as you can in order to get the best possible grades, this will assure you of positive consideration when it comes time to get some real world experience; employers love to see go-getters willing to invest in themselves and their dreams. The time to party will come with your success, so commit right now to doing things right. This is the secret so many miss when it comes to earning their degrees and moving ahead.

As noted, you include the resource lists and close with something akin to saying "And That's the Way it Is. . . Best of Luck in Your Venture!"

You may be able to get some legit endorsements from a handful of noted professionals as well as teachers & other writers that can be placed on the outside cover as well as the book ads. The more the merrier in that you need the fertilizer to help set the hook.

All going well, you will have sufficient material to frame this 12-20 page booklet that will cost you less than $5.00 ech to print & market and retail it for $75.00 (high) to $30.00 (low). Depending on how desperate people reading this add are, you will see order flowing in at descent speed PROVIDED you are exploiting a practical niche that is linked to a down-to-earth employment situation/career. The thing is, you are not misleading the buyer, you care delivering a proven method for passing the exams and launching a lucrative career as an Engineer, Chef, Travel Agent, Graphic Artist. . . you name it!

No, you aren't giving them the short-cut the ad deliberately hints at. When worded right the ad copy will deliver a very legal description of the services being sold and the product will fulfill the parameters of what the ad copy says you are buying. The sell of 400 copies at the low end price level will put $8k in your hand. Put on the market by mid-July (as people start looking at school) you can easily move that 400 copies and then some, based on the publications you use. Again, you must know your prospects; I'm thinking trailer trash. . . run ads in The Globe, National Enquirer, The Star and other such tabloids as well as banner placement all over the Internet (and of course, a solid SPAM campaign).

UNDERSTAND: that $5.00 per book cost will absorb all this preliminary venture (could go as high as $10.00 a book depending on aggressiveness of the campaign as well as sources used). My projection of 400 copies sold was based on a $20.00 per unit net. . . the low end to such a hustle. You can reconfigure this same basic package so that it looks like a really nice 6 DVD course with study & resource guide and have people more than willing to cough up $80 to $125 ish for it. Your approximate cost on such a package would not exceed $25.00, giving you a $55.00 to $100.00 profit margin per unit

The point is, it's easy to run the con and create that illuminated portrait around yourself and what you offer. . . the good you do for others. There are ways of making this particular hustle work for you in others ways, including commissions from the schools, publishers, etc.

The guys that offer you "lessons" in how to exploit the opportunities out there already know that fewer than 5% of the people that buy the program will even try it let alone follow through and make it happen. This is why Tony Robbins and all those Real Estate pitchmen do FREE seminars; you establish trust & rapport, they buy your starter kit and based on the psychological boost gained, you are almost guaranteed a follow-up sell to more than 35% of your original investors (most of whom I now purchasing the $500.00 course vs. the $150.00 course).

Pardon my rambling here, but this is elementary con-work. I can't say for certain that what this individual sells is pure scam, only that it smells familiar.

[Scepcop]

You guys,
Rather than speculate based on your experiences, or generalize, why don't you visit the guy's website yourselves and judge him on an individual basis?

http://www.smartpassiveincome.com

Try it and let me know what you think. Objective direct inquiry is the only way we are going to get somewhere. Don't just sit and speculate. Good investigators don't do that. They look at the evidence directly.

[Arouet]

You have an affiliate deal with this guy Scepcop?