What Is The Deal With Christians Saying Psi Is Evil?

[PsiSearch]

Well, I'm just wondering - as an ex-Christian - then Wiccan - and now Atheist; why do so many Christians say things like Telekinesis, Kinesis's, Astral Projection, things of the Astral Plane or Dynamics, Lucid dreaming, clairvoyance, or anything else of Psi or the Astral Plane and etc.. Are evil?


What is it? All these things are not mentioned in Bible.


“There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead." ( Deuteronomy 18:10–1 )

These things are the only things are mentioned and warned against. And, Christians say by practicing Kinesis's or Remote Viewing or Astral Projection or Lucid dreaming or Psi or Dynamics of the Astral Plane can cause you to get diseases or die or injuries or sicknesses or bad things. But, I have been practicing Telekinesis and Astral Projection and Lucid dreaming for two years now - but did anything bad happen to me? NO!

The reason I believe people insist on calling things of paranormal nature evil is simply because it is unknown, and often misunderstood. Even Magick is a very natural ability, and not evil either. Plus, people simply fear what they don't understand.



But, are my two theories on why Christians say it's evil true? Please I need some information.


This mainly goes out to SkepCop, but anyone else is free to reply as well.


Thanks!


Please reply why they do?

[NinjaPuppy]

[Scepcop]

Well they believe that cause their ministers and church leaders and fellow Christians do, and it's based on a few Bible verses condemning witches in the Old Testament. Plus every spiritual force is categorized as either of God or of Satan, and if it doesn't fit with what their interpretation of the Bible says, then it must be from Satan. It's just primitive black and white thinking without any foundation, other than "cause someone told me so", or in this case, "cause God says so".

[PsiSearch]

[PsiSearch]

[EthEricE]

Hey there brothas!
I don't believe this is a matter of religion, never been a big fan of religion, but I*, and many others believe that there is what a Christian may call prophetic Word in the Bible, Koran, Old Testament, referring to WHY manipulating the forces of nature can lead your mind, body, soul, astray from being justified by the WILL- the omnipresent SPIRIT of GOD- unconditional love.. The purest Will, and most beneficial in every circumstance, the father of us all, the source of energy, source of light, simply LETTING there be light, and hasn't stopped expanding in Every direction, dimension-every hair on your head counted- your entire soul has been touched with
the Spirit- infinite knowledge, and internal Guidance of God- the Alpha and OMEGA...
In order to clarify this topic to the fullest extent, for it's sensitive, it needs to be thoroughly explained- I do understand it- so be patient and read thoroughly, for a foundation needs to be established...

Bringing me to the point and concern of the Topic- FAITH!*- for I believe faith pertains to everyone, and this is a topic of faith
Now please allow me to open open up with the best definition I've come across in my spiritual journey thus far- in the Bible-
HEBREWS 1:11
-"Being sure in what you hope for, and certain in what you cannot see"

- According to this definition of faith, every single human with a conscious, that has a subconscious or a nature!* Has a choice, therefore has a *FAITH* the more we are conditioned by the actions (or deeds) driven by our faith it becomes our nature- what is natural*, becomes our compulsion, and every human that lives in this world- has an Id* (animalistic compulsions, raw desires) & Ego* (deceitfully excusing our actions driven by our Id, creating insecurities n whatnot)- The Id & Ego going hand in hand- at least what Sigmund Freud called it..Human* Nature= The resistance/ temptation/ "easy route" we're up against- The ego* pertaining to your status according to worldly success- whether you are more* significant or less significant* to the next person, revolving around how you appeal collectively to people, strive for mass appeal, excuses and deceit that naturally brings us to a state of stagnancy (insanity), illusion, "tempts us to transgress", subtly*- through enticement, lust, sloth, apathy, desire, power*, etc, sometimes through distractions that are beyond our discernment, when we're blinded by the reward of our immediate actions, when we can't see beyond the illusion, for we are spiritual beings, so we are influenced spiritually, through our nature, and you can't serve 2 masters, Wills that are in opposition, in the same space & time, in the same channel- 1 in essence- but 2 in manifestation by that I mean- it is IMPOSSIBLE (according to the physics or our human mind) to experience 2 different actions under the influence of 2 opposing motives, opposing nature, in the same space and time- God's Will and Freewill-QUANTUM PHYSICS- you know.. and I believe we can agree that everybody has free WILL- the state of our dominion includes freewill, the right to choose, For we are here for God's joy*, for God is an impersonal force, and how would it be of any interest to the the divine force- the catalyst that ignited the cosmos- how simplistic and complex the universe is, everything you see naturally comprised of 5 basic geometric shapes found in this universe, everything comprised of 12 solid notes of frequency, YET expect the Holy Father to en-joy* our experiences when we're obliged to choose his Will without any freedom?!? But when we get to choose pleasure now & suffering later/remorse/regret/toxic thoughts OPPOSED TO suffering/work/perseverance/discipline/conditioning NOW- there's more significance behind choice- in return the maturing of our soul- justified by the Light of God through his omnipresent Spirit that's bestowed in all of us. "God created man in his image." (very first book in the Bible Genesis) Greek being very literal. God is bestowed in man through the Spirit. rather than conditioned by our own nature- Human nature that collectively pertains to this World- Unconditionally Loving our neighbor as we love ourselves, serving others is the Law of God, in establishing a Kingdom here on Earth, in order to subdue the enemy, and replenish the World- Vice Versa- Loving others entails Loving and forgiving yourself- Which means you must know your true self, what's in your soul, for the possibility that our nature can be corrupted is always going to be a possibility given that we have a choice. Then the sins* that transgress from building a kingdom, could be inward alternative motives, animalistic selfish motives. But there are laws that I will explain later.. Our Spirit, that connects us to God, (God knowing all your thoughts, yet we're ignorant to God's thoughts most of the time cuz we refrain) is so we can be content, finding a state of zen* oneness with our experience- our niche that we find within our soul- confronting our conditioning, our nature, and rendering it to benefit, fulfill an indispensable & irreplaceable purpose, and because things are perpetual, actions come around/ go around- we create obstructions amongst each other from putting ourselves before another when we deem ourselves more valuable- BUT with the application of God's truth- WISDOM- our soul can be mature; for our soul can't become mature by our ego*- or the world- our own will- the goal is that our nature is of God's nature. Mature= The ability to delay pleasure... The tools of the devil involve manipulating the nature of someone but can't manipulate God's nature when God's nature is unconditional, infallible and pure.. This World collectively being the realm of human nature. Rather than the Kingdom of God's nature- human nature often more prevalent, self serving nature- stagnant nature, an exploiting nature, exploiting our capabilities, created with the capabilities only limited to our imagination, ingenuity, knowledge, and FAITH, what we believe in this moment, the result we can't see, but have been conditioned to either be deterred* by the possibilities we believe is to come, or to embrace the possibilities in what we believe is to come with the confidence* of God's truth... Jesus said himself "with the faith of a mustard seed you can move mountains." The same man that said- "We are God's"- in relating to what we're capable of- but we can't rely on our own nature to utilize, and appropriate these gifts to where they will benefit, instead of using them in vane, to gain power- or significance over someone, or a mass population, much like the people that run the world, Like Shamans did, Like Egyptian sorcerers attempted in Babylonian times when "magic" and alchemy was at a high, even Jews that were enslaved by Egyptians separated from scripture, began performing magic*.. Some still do to this day because of them being enslaved long ago.. using knowledge for power rather than confidence, manipulating human nature, using the art of the sublime, so called magic, in advertising, whatnot...
Interpreting the dogmas of the Bible, getting the prophetic word or God's truth is another topic, as well as unveiling the immoral nature of the hierarchy of the world, government using black arts to pull nerves, manipulating nature, but fortunately for those that confront their nature are being conscious, and those that have their testimony with God Will discern and have confronted their past nature, as long as their actions correspond, for our subconscious forms- molds us- by our outlook on our relationships, actions, and experiences, and such... soo if our faith in God corresponds with our actions- in agreement with God's Will, sync with God's timing, we WILL discern these things, like the creator, through the creator, when plugged into the conduit of the Spirit, spiritually transformed, if humble enough- confronting also means asking for forgiveness of our nature and excuses, in order for God's nature to present itself within you, justifying your life, eliminating the excuses. The only thing necessary for truth to show itself, is simply allowing it to come to the surface, by eliminating the obstructions. The obstructions make us ignorant to God's timing, and our provokers don't want us to love God, even though distinguishing your provokers are your key to your success with establishing a solid relationship with God...

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is absolutely nothing."- Edmund Burke

IN EVERY major Religion there has been a reference- of a Spirit that's God's conduit- Human nature- and a Soul- Soul and Spirit not the same- the Holy Spirit where infinite knowledge is found, instilled in every man and women, how I* think we receive distress calls, blessings, strength when needed, infinite knowledge, also our connection to one another as brother's and sister's, and soul mates- Knowledge is not created- It's discovered- Like when 2 people are in the process of discovering the same ingenuity, same invention, same time, and space, riding the same channel, maybe a mechanism, or cure- nonetheless Wisdom= The application of God's truth and virtues- Truth/ Truisms are laws, meaning things that don't change- God's nature is unconditional*- Love, Grace or forgiveness- and beneficial nothing can replace God's conditioning, turning even the worst of relationships and experiences into a positive, making a positive attitude more prevalent.. Choosing God's path is like choosing to have a Good day or choosing a bad day, for the choice is always yours given the circumstances, perspective.

First off, every thought emits a substantial amount of energy (energy is information that vibrates), thoughts are electrical* impulses. Now when astral planing your honing into different energies, powerful vibrations, that make apparent to your mind, and when you relax and go through the process of cleansing or whatever, your focus becomes what's prevalent in other minds. Your intention unknown soo your left to the intention of others, which can often be influenced by entities, for God protects his children from people that astral plane, for that vibration is the strongest truly a virtue, has a firewall against vanity, preventing astral physics from lingering, a "spying" type of mischievous nature. Black magic refers that everybody in the world has a demon- or problems- or I'd like to call it- the Id*- which they hone in on that vibe almost invoking a response that will send out some kinda vibrational link- maybe a sentiment- Overall I believe it's most often pointless and easily exploited. A strong vibrational link is often projected from the thrill, pleasure, and emotion experienced, during sinful, often subtle, immediate desires, at first illuminating something that appears to be innocent and harmless, and enticing, then later- when continued, it divulges the true nature of the experience when astral planing, making you vulnerable, and susceptible to the influence and manipulation of *entities* or *beings* in the universe, because of your decision you become outside of the protection of God, which is a freaky feeling... and things like Jinns, and demons, not the same, are more experienced with magic, and advanced with the laws of nature than we are, Jinns allegedly known to travel on like 12 planes or somn ridiculous not sure to be exact, humans only achieving 4 or 5 something like that... So my point being they will make you think your in control of your trip, and will usually make themselves known to you because thats its intention, there was a time when my interest shifted toward shamanistic practices, trippin, till I realized that God really wants what's best for us. Astral Planing can expose us to corrupted energies distracting us of God's TIMING & WILL, therefore it's considered evil in the Bible, for Pagans and Hindus deny God of his justice and power, fooling themselves into thinking they're self empowered by the illusion they perceive. Not that it's evil but IT is the result of the absence of God. Kinda like "HATE" when translated from Hebrew means "Loving Less", soo anyone you reserve your love from, your technically hating, disliking according to fleshly judgement.. God makes these simplistic concise laws to easily understand, almost too simple to be the truth for many, for it's not necessary to understand everything, I went that route and realized knowledge can be completely futile. Just strive to understand God's simplistic nature, for the intricate explanation is the same as the simple explanation, can be a burden, and He is forgiving of us falling short.. Unconditional Love
I AM a Christian myself, pertains to me according to faith. There are dogmas that contradict itself within the Bible, but the history is still there, and can be depicted, the folly can be discerned. Discernment comes from God though.. Soo ask and receive.. And God Bless! You have the choice between blessings and curses my dear friends... Oh that I'd only hope you choose the wisdom of God for your sake as well as the Kingdoms sake.. We're not here to segregate, Jesus came to prepare the Kingdom here on Earth as it is in Heaven, in order to do that everyone needs to be riding God's channel, or else inviting God here, Will be like inviting a guest into a dirty household.. Jesus didn't come to start a religion, nowhere in the true narrative of Jesus, does it say so, not here to convert, the man 100% in agreement with God's Will, his actions reflecting 100% God's Will, selfless, came in the name of God, our Father, in Love... AMEN!

[EthEricE]

Magic is science that hasn't necessarily been translated nor explained to the fullest extent although it is.. But terribly misleading, Jesus said we could heal people as well, do what he did, concentrating the God's energy, through the conduit of the Holy Spirit, for we will fall short inevitably when we think we're in control.. INTENTION! Clarifies the motive, what are you seeking? Acknowledgement? Power? Humility? Love? Satisfying Greed, Hate, Lust, Curiosity? Unknown? What is unknown to you that you must know now in order to better your health and bring fulfillment to your success? Is it self gratifying in your trip? I think we can agree that there are many things that aren't good for us.. Many forms of negative energy, bindings with our past, bindings of resent with other people, even entities, and how we expose ourselves to things of this world.. It's not always what* we expose ourselves to often times how* we've been exposed to something, a vibrational link to the experience... And when your taking it as it comes to you, your not as conscious as you really think you are in the state that your in, for there can only be soo much cooking on the front burner of your conscious... It has been said that one can only focus on Either* Protection* OR Growth* in the same *space & Time*... And when in the mindset of exploration* your in the state of Growth, of course most of the time that's the mode we should be in, having a healthy mind.. BUT YOUR Soul Sailin', and your essence isn't alone, and unaware of the nature of the other entities out there, YOU ARE VULNERABLE.. It's like- very simple, God's laws are there to better others and selves state of being, for Precaution nonetheless! You can choose not to take pre* caution* and inevitably, because the negative is still a possibility, it will breach the surface of your reality, and will succumb to that reality, because you alone can't eliminate that from being a possibility, you only have the choice to do soo.. according to what your sure of, & how certain you are in your belief in yourself, which I'd think the belief is somewhere within you, and don't believe in God, which is an illusion, cuz one can't inspire one's self, inspiration comes from some kinda perseverance in faith, or invoke a holy moment by one's own WILL.. How can you protect yourself from events, and things, you honestly can't get a grip on, things your unaware of in the right place and time*... Peace brothas!

[EthEricE]

And being that astral planer's attract to strong vibrations, there are deadly strong vibes out there... I'm talking about one's that could compromise one's function over the self, from broadcast towers, to static, death tones, radio, communication, military projects, so I'd think you would be safer* without all that astral planin business... Not to mention the entities that just can't wait go soul surfin.. I'm good, we think we're soo smart too... Thinkin that God don't know your thoughts.. Confront them before they confront you, in subtle way.. more unnecessary humility..

[Arouet]

Ninja: I was going to write something about evangelical spam but since you said to be nice to new posters I will refrain.

(didn't read the walls of text but from the first sentence it seems that's what it was. If anyone actually reads it and I'm wrong - please tell me!)

[EthEricE]

nope not evangelical
Simply illuminating, with reason, explanation, speculation just like everyone else, in my opinion debunking to a certain extent, or at least clarifying what it really is and what it's about

[Craig Browning]

OMG! Someone that can write more than me

Well, I didn't wade through all of it given that I read that someone was a Christian then Pagan and then Atheist, etc. and based on what I see in the rest of the post I'm betting they are still in their 20's or early 30's at the most -- still trying to find a "god' that fits his/her own way of thinking rather than taking time to focus their life a bit; stand still long enough to actually LEARN what's what. The real trigger being how we run directly to the Old Testament in defense of a particular attitude; while the Abrahamic faiths have tainted the views of the world's populace the Old Testament contentions when it comes to Seership, the totally false line about "Suffer a Witch to Live" and so forth given how much of the Bible-- old & new testaments -- depend on divination/prophecy, miracles, the signs found in the heavens, etc.

Astrology is/was a major part of the Jewish world and in biblical times, seen as a very high and elevated science, which is why the Magi knew of the special birth, etc. the studied the Stars and like most of the world in those days, relied on the stars when it came to prognosticating the ways of each season as well as the course of a humans life. Add to this the other mystical elements of ancient Judaism by way of the Sefer Yetzerah and Kabalah not to mention the magicks attributed to Moses, King Solomon and several other "prophets". All of which bring us to the real issue; is magick and all these ways of forecasting life wrong & evil or does this only apply to those that don't kiss the glowing hinny of the Israelite God?

Like most of the bible, koran and other such texts tied to the Abrahamic faiths, this is another point of contradiction. If Jesus or Samuel or Abraham, etc. lay their hands on someone and heals them it is by god's grace and blessing; let the High Priest of Cairo do the same and it's obviously Satan working through him in order to create doubt in the minds of others. . . this was and remains the standard to this day, but then Christians have never been very good at dealing with the truth, let alone the facts.

The "Paranoia" tied to any and all magickle skills stems in part, from the deliberate propaganda built around it by those vested into such things as well as the church itself.

The Mystery Schools throughout history, required the neophyte to prove their worth -- their sense of character, honor, determination, etc. before they were even allowed into the "college" or "Monastery" -- this is common the world over. In the earliest of times the neophyte would first learn the greater mysteries of language and mathematics; as recently as the late 20th century you can find cultures that viewed reading & writing as a form of magick. Go back a few dozen generations and you will find this is more than just common place, it is how life was. Any young person taken in by the mystics just for a few years, would be able to live an elevated life simply because they would know basic math, music, poetry and various linguistic advantages including multiple tongues (speaking several languages) it was a powerful position to be in. . . still is. Look at how much corruption and immorality happens in our world just because people know these two "secrets" -- these two magickle skills. I point this out because of the fact that the ancient mystics work hard at limiting who would learn these things because of the potential for abuse; using the knowledge for personal gains rather than mutual benefit for all of society.

The "Evil" or "Sin" of these abilities & knowledge stems from one having a tainted heart and deceptive mind; it's not the abilities that are innately evil but man's abuse of said knowledge. Even now, consider what would happen if the Pentagon gained un-checked access to Telekinetic abilities let alone knowing how to manipulate events on the Astral Plane, Remote Viewing, etc. Man will corrupt such "technology" and use it against the populace, you cannot find a single incident in history where this does not prove the case; from the day Og made the first camp fire and Tyre the first wheel to the iPad, it's always been about power, conquest and dominance. In the mind of those that covet such knowledge and ability the "wrong" exists because they can't have it and want it. The wrong exists because they want others to fear it and stay away from it . . . to keep the masses more impotent and "controllable" rather than empowered.

As the good folks at the NRA say, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people with guns" The same is true with all technology, by itself there is no evil but toss in an ego driven human being and voila!

[Twain Shakespeare]

Lets see if I can answer without jargon. (I have been warned about the inappropriate use of bombast)

I have two theories in answer to your question off the top of my head. The first matches yours, Craig, with a few more details.

You said you had two theories Craig. First, that “people simply fear what they don't understand.” Instinct makes us cautious around the unknown, but the degree of caution differs w/ temperament and training, from Pliny, who walked into an erupting volcano to see what was going on ( after taking precautions that proved inadequate) to those for him new music evokes the flight or fight response.

That is the biological mechanism that is involved in the fear.

You mentioned the ideological justification of the fear is the passage, “There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead." ( Deuteronomy 18:10–1 )
I would have cited “Thou shall not suffer a witch to live!” as the truly deadly passage. Is is more familiar to the average Christian robot, and more ambiguous. Granted, if you are accused of being a witch, you might manage to convince the Spanish Inquisition you are not a witch because you do not do what is listed in Dueteronomy, but I doubt if you could convince Rick Perry you are not an agent of Satan is he saw you levitate.

So, my first theory is, as you said, that Christians say these things are evil because their fear of the unknown is preconditioned to see a certain class of the unknown, “the paranormal” (about which they know nothing) as belonging to a class (witchcraft) that is “Satanic”.

From my studies of psychology, and my own experience with monist thought systems, the basic problem with them is that (jargon here) “closed systems inherently contain contradictions” (Goedel's Theorem, paraphrased.)

“Monists”, be they Muslims, Christians, Marxists, or Randite Objectivists, believe reality is consistent with their theory, and contains nothing else. This is characteristic of typical ego consciousness, in the “West” at least.
However, the world is a bleeping, buzzing confusion that fits no model. To keep the monist vision intact requires a “fudge factor,” thus Einstein adds a cosmological constant to balnce the unification of his theories, Allah is paired with Shaitan, Nixon becomes a communist to John Birchers, and Obama a socialist to the Tea Party.
A further level of “reaction formation” comes when all contradictory data is explained by the fudge. Eventually, for example, Platonists, who believed the world was mathematically perfect and precise, came to believe it was entirely corrupt because of the abundant evidence of imperfection and imprecision.

To recap, when a psyche that is committed to a monist system encounters contradictory data, it “flies” from it by ignoring it. If that fails, it hides from it by saying it is something else. When that doesn't work, it “fights”


Thus far, I am just covering your ground, Craig, hopefully with a few more helpful details, but....

My second theory is that “things like Telekinesis, Kinesis's, Astral Projection, things of the Astral Plane or Dynamics, Lucid dreaming, clairvoyance, or anything else of Psi or the Astral Plane and etc.(are) 'evil'?“
You asked, “Why do so many Christians say things like Telekinesis, Kinesis's, Astral Projection, things of the Astral Plane or Dynamics, Lucid dreaming, clairvoyance, or anything else of Psi or the Astral Plane and etc.. Are evil?”
According to Christians, clairvoyance is divination, lucid dreaming is interpreting omens, psi in general is mediumship, and telekinesis is witchcraft (so I don't think the Spanish Inquisition will give you a pass, much less Perry)

Now, I take everything in the Bible with a grain of salt (and I have used almost all of Lot's wife! Quick, someone, doubt god, I need salt. Maybe I can use a Christian. “Salt of the Earth” you know)” but, as you have pointed out, the use of these powers is important. I would say that there is ample experiential evidence that using these gifts primarily for personal benefit is “ill-advised”, and Christians are incapable of believing non-Christians will not turn to evil as naturally as a dog eats vomit. So, to a Christian, a non-Christian pyschic is already evil by being non-Christian. That they are a psychic is proof there are serving the devil, so naturally they must be using their powers to blight the crops or cause sickness.

I must add that, from my knowledge of the data on “communication with the dead”, I suspect there is an intelligence on the other side of these conversations, but I am also fairly certain that the intelligence is not “who” or “what” it purports to be., and I think there is a possibility that at least some sources of contact with the other side may wish us harm.

So be careful, as you have been, Craig. If something tells you it is Swedenborg or Houdini, get out the salt, and watch out for those Christians (and Muslims and the occasional Hassid) They'll kill you and call it “righteous.”

[Twain Shakespeare]

[quote="EthEricE"]Now please allow me to open open up with the best definition I've come across in my spiritual journey thus far- in the Bible-
HEBREWS 1:11
-"Being sure in what you hope for, and certain in what you cannot see"

That lets me off the hook. As a agnostic scientific buddhist, if I find my “self” sure or certain, I conclude I need to check for errors.

Sureness and certainty are capacities all humans share (altho I appear to have been short-changed). Applying them to Christianity leads to the Monist Fallacies.

This is also merely Old Testament Jewish “faith” Christian and Moslems have “religious” faith, which is different from sureness or even certainty by an order of magnitude.

The best definition of religious faith I ever heard came from a Mormon scientist who was also a creationist, “Faith is believing what you know isn't true.”

As a method actor, I do that all the time. It was an order of magnitude different when I applied that capacity to “believing” in my Salvation, and that YHWH was active in my life. Despite every precaution, I fell so deeply into the monist error I persuaded my “self” it was good that YHWH stole the 2000 election, but with the coming year, the contradiction between what I felt in my heart, gut and rational mind was good, and what I “believed” overwhelmed my will to believe my delusions.

[Twain Shakespeare]

[_Ice_Ages_14_Aces_]

The answer for your question is simple: Ignorance