9/11 debate on C2C I consulted on for Richard Gage

[ProfWag]

[stundie]

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[Edx]

[Edx]

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[Chemist]

Just to bring us back on topic, which is Winston being a consultant to Mr Gage for an upcoming debate. I advised Winston not to take the job. I had a few exchanges with Winston back in mid-2009 about the controlled demolition theory. It seems that both Winston and Gage would be exposed as laughing stocks if they go through with this debate.

Here is a timeline that I compiled from the NIST report of 9/11 and other sources. I think it illustrates very well that the collapses of WTC 1, WTC 2 and WTC 7 were gradual collapses due to fire and not an instantaneous collapse that would be characteristic of demolition. Winston, make sure you forward this to Mr Gage before it is too late.

8:46am--American Airlines 11 crashed into the North Tower.
9:03 -- United Airlines 175 crashed into the South Tower.
9:37--A 9-1-1 call from on occupant trapped on the 105th floor of the south tower describes floors beneath him collapsing. This was confirmed by exterior observations by the NYPD avaiation unit.
9:52-- NYPD aviation unit reports: "large pieces may be falling from the top of WTC 2[The south tower]. Large pieces are hanging up there". NYPD issues orders to evacuate.
9:59-- South Tower collapses
10:20--Aviation Unit reports that North Tower "the top of the tower might be leaning."
10:21--Aviation Unit reports that North Tower "is buckling on the southwest corner and leaning to the south" [an asymetrical deterioration. Didn't Gates say that lack of asymetrical collapse was the reason why explosives might have been used. Doesn't he say that he would have expected asymetrical collapse?]
10:27--Aviation Unit reports that "the roof is going to come down very shortly."
10:28--North Tower collapses. Debris causes severe damage to surrounding structures including WTC 7, igniting several fires that would burn out of control.
2:00pm--Firefighters notice a bulge developing on the Southwest corner of WTC 7 between 10-13th floors.
3:30--The condition of WTC 7 deteriorates to the point where rescue and recovery operations are halted and crews are evacuated from the area.
5:20-- WTC 7 collapses.

What does this mean? It means that a mere 35 minutes after impact of the south tower, occupants and the authorities were already observing deterioration of the building's structure in the form of collapsed floors. Roughly 50 minutes after impact, authorities were observing failures on the exterior of the south tower. Then about 55 minutes after impact, the south tower collapses. This documents a gradual increase in structural failure since the impact that resulted in the systemic failure that caused the total collapse of the structure. Which would be consistent with the theory of a fire-assissted collapse. Demolitions don't operate this way (with the building being structurally sound until charges are detonated, and then, immediately collapsing)

In the north tower, it's the same way. 7-8 minutes before collapse, authorities are observing gradual deterioration in the buildings structure.

And it gets worse for WTC 7. Fires burn out of control for about 3.5 hours before the bulge is noticed by firemen. Isn't this how long that Dr Gates claims steel buildings are rated for against fire? An hour an a half later (5 hrs total from impact and ignition of the fires) the firemen halt their operations and evacuate. An additional two hours later, the building collapses. In other words, WTC 7 had fires burning out of control for 7 HOURS! How long does Dr Gates think a structure should be rated for against fire? I hear three or four hours in his lecture, but WTC 7 was burning for twice as long.

At any rate, this was clearly NOT a collapse at free fall speed. At free fall speed, it would take 9s for the twin towers to collapse when it was actually closer to 15s. At free fall speed, it would take WTC7 6 seconds to collapse. But it was more like 14s. I had sent Winson this video back in May 2009:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0GW6QXKyp0

It’s the collapse of WTC 7 from various different angles. At time marker 1:14, you see definite movement as the penthouse begins to collapse. The rest of the structure begins to collapse at 1:22. You can also catch this at different angles at 2:35 and 3:02. My question has been why AE911Truth would cut out the first 8 seconds of the collapse and only present the last six? I haven’t received an answer, and to date, they are still making the same claim.

Now, we have tons of video and eyewitness testimony as well as forensics and extensive testing to support the fire assisted collapse theory. The volume of this evidence can’t be overstated.

There is no evidence in support of the demolition theory. And when I say “no evidence” I mean: zero, ziltch, nada! There were no traces of explosives found at ground zero for one thing. And if thermite was going to be used, you would need tons of it. Is there any evidence of such a quantity of thermite being purchased or procured? Where are the receipts? Where are the eye witnesses that will testify to seeing some mysterious and strange people setting charges and running wires through the towers. Typical demolitions require days to prepare for. Somebody had to have noticed something if this was done at the WTC. And if demolishing the towers was the goal, than why would you need to fly planes into them?

This is one thing I would suggest for Winston and Gage. Get some evidence.

[Scepcop]

Welcome Chemist.

I'm sorry but your saying so doesn't make it so.

There is evidence of controlled demolition. Thermite residue, molten metal, 10 characteristics, etc. That is scientific hard evidence. Denying it doesn't make it go away.

Fires cannot explain the collapse of WTC7. We've already been over that. Your words cannot make fire the explanation. Cause it cannot. Pure and simple. No way around it.

A fire collapse does not fall at that speed, free fall or not. It's never happened, and cannot happened.

If such were possible, then the demolition company would be out of business. I could just spend a few hours starting a fire instead of rigging explosives for months.

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[Chemist]