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Indepth Review Of Richard Dawkins' "Enemies Of Reason" Film

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Indepth Review Of Richard Dawkins' "Enemies Of Reason" Film

Postby Scepcop » Tue May 04, 2010 7:20 pm

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Two great new blog posts by Eteponge!

http://eteponge.blogspot.com/2010/04/in ... wkins.html - Indepth Review Of Richard Dawkins' "Enemies Of Reason" Documentary

http://eteponge.blogspot.com/2010/04/re ... es-of.html - A Response To Derren Brown's Critiques Of Remote Viewing
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Indepth Review Of Richard Dawkins' "Enemies Of Reason" Film

Postby NinjaPuppy » Tue May 04, 2010 7:57 pm

Kudos to you Eteponge!
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Re: Indepth Review Of Richard Dawkins' "Enemies Of Reason" Film

Postby ciscop » Tue May 04, 2010 8:07 pm

what?
you are referencing Gary Schwartz??
the same Gary Schwartz that was exposed as a CON MAN in Geraldo???

http://www.badpsychics.co.uk/thefraudfi ... toryid=555

who cares about double blind test when the tester is a fraudulent EVIL individual

(to take money out of the pocket of the grieving is just evil)
Last edited by ciscop on Tue May 04, 2010 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Indepth Review Of Richard Dawkins' "Enemies Of Reason" Film

Postby NinjaPuppy » Tue May 04, 2010 8:09 pm

Yeah, like Geraldo is some media guru of truth. :lol:
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Re: Indepth Review Of Richard Dawkins' "Enemies Of Reason" Film

Postby ciscop » Tue May 04, 2010 8:11 pm

im sorry you dont care about the father that was interviewed for the segment

i do care as i am human :D
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Indepth Review Of Richard Dawkins' "Enemies Of Reason" Film

Postby ProfWag » Tue May 04, 2010 9:20 pm

I really like Eteponge and believe his heart is in the right place and a good deal of effort is placed in his blogs.
Having said that, I believe this critique contain less than solid information. Gary Schwartz' experiments on psychics/mediums are less than stellar and as of this date, hasn't even begun to persuade virtually any scientist (with the exception of Dean Radin) that there may be something to mediumship. A serious review of Schwartz' experiment is, unfortunately, laughable. Keeping it in context, back in the day, Eteponge used "Unsolved Mysteries" as a source document for the medium Dorothy Allison which would me like me using Penn & Teller's Bullsh!it as a source for there being no such thing as astrology which, as we all know, would be ridiculous.
Sorry Eteponge, but to criticize Dawkins' using Schwartz is, well, like criticizing Stephen Hawkings' "A Brief History of Time" using the Planet of the Apes.
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Re: Indepth Review Of Richard Dawkins' "Enemies Of Reason" Film

Postby ciscop » Tue May 04, 2010 10:08 pm

NICE!!!
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Indepth Review Of Richard Dawkins' "Enemies Of Reason" Film

Postby Eteponge » Tue May 04, 2010 10:59 pm

ciscop wrote:what?
you are referencing Gary Schwartz??
the same Gary Schwartz that was exposed as a CON MAN in Geraldo???

http://www.badpsychics.co.uk/thefraudfi ... toryid=555

who cares about double blind test when the tester is a fraudulent EVIL individual

(to take money out of the pocket of the grieving is just evil)

What I find absolutely hilarious about this, is how Skeptics will bed with a source as biased and error filled as Faux News, with none other than Geraldo (who has a very bad track record for fair reporting) at the helm, blindly accept it as factual reporting, and then never bothering to check to see whether or not it was accurate, selective skepticism at it's finest ...

Geraldo of Fox News once did a segment on his show where he attacked Dr. Gary Schwartz and his Research with many false accusations and biased reporting, Gary's response is here ...

http://www.drgaryschwartz.com/response.htm (Examining an erroneous and malicious character assassination)

"Summary: Response to Geraldo

In what can be described as a character assassination segment on “Geraldo at Large” on Saturday, October 6th, explicit defamatory claims were made against Dr. Gary E. Schwartz concerning his ethics regarding fund raising for afterlife research. The one-sided segment presented interviews with three people – (1) Mr. Knopf, a father grieving the death of his son who had been a former client of Ms. Campbell (2) a medium currently co-starring in the television show Sensing Murder, and (3) Ms. Macy, an investigative reporter hired by Mr. Knopf. The segment was highly selective and biased in its reporting. A summary of the claims, with additional information not shared on the segment, is discussed below. Together they reveal a very different story.

Mr. Knopf claimed that Dr. Schwartz engaged in unethical fund raising following the death of his son, including making statements regarding his deceased son’s purported wishes from the other side. What the Geraldo segment did not mention is that (1) it was Mr. Knopf who initiated contact with Dr. Schwartz following Mr. Knopf’s successful private readings with Ms. Campbell, (2) Mr. Knopf claimed that he was a very wealthy man who wanted to honor his deceased son and help support afterlife research, (3) he invited Dr. Schwartz to his home to discuss possible research programs that he would fund, (4) Ms. Campbell provided specific information about his son’s wishes from the other side, (5) Mr. Knopf promised The University of Arizona an unrestricted gift of $100,000 but only followed through with $50,000 to The University of Arizona, (6) Mr. Knopf communicated to Dr. Schwartz that Mr. Knopf had recently been released from spending time in jail, (7) Mr. Knopf also communicated to Dr. Schwartz that he was currently being sued by partners in a medical school he purported to own, and (8) he was upset because Dr. Schwartz refused to participate in a proposed business venture with Mr. Knopf that would compromise Dr. Schwartz’s ethics.

Ms. Campbell claimed that she resigned from Dr. Schwartz’s laboratory in 2005, and that this speaks to her opinions regarding Dr. Schwartz’s ethical behavior. What the Geraldo segment did not mention is that (1) new guidelines and procedures for advancing the ethics and scientific understanding for mediums were being formulated at that time, initiated partly by some inappropriate behavior by Ms. Campbell and some other mediums, (2) all mediums would be required to go through a nine step evaluation procedure, including taking a government mandated human subjects ethics examine required of scientists and research staff, plus take a test based on a book describing previous scientific research with mediums, (3) Ms. Campbell was upset that she would have to undergo the required testing for the new guidelines and procedures, (4) she decided not to participate in the testing, and therefore (5) she was about to be let go by the laboratory, and chose to resign instead.

Ms. Macy claimed that she had interviewed other individuals who had been approached by Dr. Schwartz for research funding in an unethical manner. What the Geraldo segment did not mention is that (1) Ms. Macy had previously contributed to the spreading of a false rumor concerning fund raising related to Dr. Schwartz and the Forever Family Foundation, and that (2) after being confronted with the facts, she had written a formal letter of apology to Dr. Schwartz for her being part of spreading the false rumor.

One wonders why “Geraldo at Large” presented such a one sided story. Geraldo made a point on the show of reporting that Dr. Schwartz did not return their calls, with an implicit negative connotation. The truth is that there was no genuine attempt by the Geraldo show to contact Dr. Schwartz to have a fair representation of both sides of this story. What Geraldo failed to mention was that the call to Dr. Schwartz’s office was made only after closing hours of his office on Friday, October 5, for a show that was ready to be aired on Saturday, October 6. Also, a call had been made to Dr. Schwartz’s home late Friday night. As it happened, both Dr. Schwartz and his wife were out of town that weekend. They returned to Tucson on Sunday evening, October 7, after the show had aired.

As the title “Veritas Research Program” (http://veritas.arizona.edu ) indicates, Dr. Schwartz and his colleagues are concerned with truth. As Dr. Schwartz reports on his laboratory’s website (http://lach.web.arizona.edu/hos.htm),“Responsibility to the truth is the heart of science.” The Geraldo segment about Dr. Schwartz reveals a striking disregard for balanced truth in reporting. Legal action will be taken against each and every individual who has made defamatory comments against Dr. Schwartz, and the truth will be brought out in the court room 1.

1 An expanded and more academic discussion of these issues – including the philosophy and consequences of erroneous character assassination – will be available at a future date."
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Re: Indepth Review Of Richard Dawkins' "Enemies Of Reason" Film

Postby Eteponge » Tue May 04, 2010 11:08 pm

ProfWag wrote:A serious review of Schwartz' experiment is, unfortunately, laughable.

Funny how I hear skeptics say this, and yet, I've listened to interviews where Dr. Gary Schwartz has been interviewed, where he has been asked about the same skeptical criticisms that are in the skeptical articles about him (which are usually attacking his early 2000-2003 experiments, before he stepped up the protocols and tightened the controls) and I've listened to him shoot them down over and over again calmly and rationally.

ProfWag wrote:Keeping it in context, back in the day, Eteponge used "Unsolved Mysteries" as a source document for the medium Dorothy Allison

Again, you misinterpret and distort what I actually did. More like "keeping it out of context" ProfWag.

What I did FOR THE RECORD ...

I used VIDEO INTERVIEWS with Dorothy Allison, the Police Detectives, and the Victim's Family Members who consulted Dorothy, from Unsolved Mysteries, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE *ONLY KNOWN VIDEO INTERVIEWS TO EXIST* with those individuals. My main source was *NOT* Unsolved Mysteries, it was Dorothy Allison: A Psychic Story (the book), among several newspaper articles (including one from the new york times), and several misc articles and sources (including a few skeptic sources).

The video interviews from UM were important because you have the Police Detectives and Family of the Victims going on record, in video, about the cases, confirming Dorothy's account of the events.

That's the actual context. It's pissing me off having to reclarify this all the time when a Skeptic gets it wrong.
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Re: Indepth Review Of Richard Dawkins' "Enemies Of Reason" Film

Postby ciscop » Tue May 04, 2010 11:28 pm

hahahahaha

so your source to rebut the claims
is THE CON MAN himself???

wow!!
well done

by the way telling something ¨calmly¨ doesnt mean ANYTHING but to believers that just shows you how lower the standard is for believers than it is for critical thinkers.
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Indepth Review Of Richard Dawkins' "Enemies Of Reason" Film

Postby Eteponge » Tue May 04, 2010 11:50 pm

ciscop wrote:hahahahaha

so your source to rebut the claims
is THE CON MAN himself???

wow!!
well done

by the way telling something ¨calmly¨ doesnt mean ANYTHING but to believers that just shows you how lower the standard is for believers than it is for critical thinkers.

Anyone truly reasonable would try to refute the *actual counter points* brought up by Dr. Gary Schwartz, rather than pulling a "Geraldo says he is a con man, therefore he is a con man! Fox News wouldn't lie to me! You are taking the Con Man's side of the story where he debunks each and every point Geraldo made! That's unreasonable! Wahhh!" type of response.

Dr. Gary Schwartz shot down each and every accusation Geraldo made on his show with counter data. If you want to convince me he's wrong, provide proven rebuttals to each of Dr. Gary Schwartz's response points, rather than going, "Geraldo and Fox News say's he's a con man, so he's a con man, and can't be trusted! Fox News is fair and balanced, the spin stops here!"

Funny how when Randi, Shermer, Dawkins, etc, has attacks leveled against them, like Randi's Blackmail Tapes, you accept their side of the story as 100% factual at face value. Hmmm, double standard much?
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Re: Indepth Review Of Richard Dawkins' "Enemies Of Reason" Film

Postby ciscop » Wed May 05, 2010 12:08 am

Eteponge wrote:
ciscop wrote:hahahahaha

"Geraldo says he is a con man, therefore he is a con man! Fox News wouldn't lie to me! You are taking the Con Man's side of the story where he debunks each and every point Geraldo made! That's unreasonable! Wahhh!" type of response.


i never said geraldo nor fox news told the truth every time

im just saying there´s a guy out there that was conned by this scam artist
and to believe in what he says to refute dawkins is just laughable, just poor judgment
but then again.. you are a believer and you arent known for having acceptable standards..

if the best you have in your side of the fence is Schwartz, then my friend you got nothing
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Indepth Review Of Richard Dawkins' "Enemies Of Reason" Film

Postby Eteponge » Wed May 05, 2010 12:22 am

ciscop wrote:im just saying there´s a guy out there that was conned by this scam artist

A man who CLAIMS to have been conned, which you blindly accept as his word, YET ...

"Mr. Knopf claimed that Dr. Schwartz engaged in unethical fund raising following the death of his son, including making statements regarding his deceased son’s purported wishes from the other side. What the Geraldo segment did not mention is that (1) it was Mr. Knopf who initiated contact with Dr. Schwartz following Mr. Knopf’s successful private readings with Ms. Campbell, (2) Mr. Knopf claimed that he was a very wealthy man who wanted to honor his deceased son and help support afterlife research, (3) he invited Dr. Schwartz to his home to discuss possible research programs that he would fund, (4) Ms. Campbell provided specific information about his son’s wishes from the other side, (5) Mr. Knopf promised The University of Arizona an unrestricted gift of $100,000 but only followed through with $50,000 to The University of Arizona, (6) Mr. Knopf communicated to Dr. Schwartz that Mr. Knopf had recently been released from spending time in jail, (7) Mr. Knopf also communicated to Dr. Schwartz that he was currently being sued by partners in a medical school he purported to own, and (8) he was upset because Dr. Schwartz refused to participate in a proposed business venture with Mr. Knopf that would compromise Dr. Schwartz’s ethics."

If you want to convince me he was conned, refute these counter points.
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Re: Indepth Review Of Richard Dawkins' "Enemies Of Reason" Film

Postby Eteponge » Wed May 05, 2010 12:25 am

Now I see why Proponents in these fields have such a hard time dealing with Skeptics, they just spam ad hominems and character assassinations and won't deal with the actual points being made. They won't tackle the actual data or points, they just spam, "He's a con man! And you're a fraud for believing him!" as a smokescreen for not having to deal with any of the actual points being discussed. It's silly, and I can't believe anyone would fall for this tactic. I'm out, I have better things to do with my time than schwabble with name calling.
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Re: Indepth Review Of Richard Dawkins' "Enemies Of Reason" Film

Postby ciscop » Wed May 05, 2010 12:37 am

at the end of the day
all we got is a ¨he said, he said¨

nothing more

i guess this is where we cant go further :-(

you know your ¨scientist¨ wouldnt do that
i know psychics is all they do

so not much progress there

still
schwartz has no scientific validation but from radin who is another quack
while dawkins is pretty much, THE MAN :lol:
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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