Discussion about UFO's, Aliens, ET's, Alien Abductions, Ancient Astronaut theories, etc.
11 posts • Page 1 of 1
July 9, 2013
To SCEPCOP Members:
Even though this information is several years old, I feel that it is important enough to be posted as widely as possible.
The FBI released file information on the late UFO debunker Phil Klass. Members of SCEPCOP should go to google and punch in the search field Phil Klass FBI file. Click on Google Search, and the first listing from the Computer UFO Network is where the file is located.
Read the file, to be totally honest by the time you are done SCEPCOP members should be rolling on the floor having a VERY GOOD laugh.
The FBI did NOT hold Mr. Klass in high regards. As a matter of fact the FBI considered Klass to be "irrational" and nothing but a trouble maker and a complete pest. The file clearly states that Mr. Klass DID NOT have a sterling reputation. One of the documents states that Klass was not in full possession of his faculties.
Translation: This means that Klass was nuts. For more information about Phil Klass, go to google and in the search field punch in Skeptics Honesty and UFOs. This online posting is a real eye opener. By the way Phil Klass was not and never was a scientist. He DID NOT have a Ph.D degree. Klass was a former aviation electronics engineer and Senior Aviation Editor at Aviation Week and Space Technology.
By the way, when I spoke at Cornell, the late W. Reid Thompson referred to Klass as being "A Loose Cannon"
See "Shutting Up UFO Debunkers" for more information about Reid's professional and scientific credentials.
The FBI file on Klass, makes it very clear that Klass has NO credibility in the same file there is a statement about the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek. The FBI file stated that Hynek HAS a sterling reputation, and that he is associated with one of the finest universities, Northwestern. Statements also in the file said that Allen had the respect of his peers in the scientific community.
While Klass's UFO "investigations" were more likely a disinformation campaign to serve some other ulterior motive, scientific objectivity was NOT used in Klass's case investigations. In April 1980, Hynek spoke in Syracuse. Hynek told me that Klass was caught lying on his case investigations.
Since the FBI did not have a positive view of Klass, consider the source, of the criticisms about Phil Klass, and ask yourself how CSI would ruin it's credibility by having Klass as one of their major UFO debunkers.
To quote the late Dr. James E. McDonald who was an atmospheric physicist at the University of Arizona, McDonald established that Klass's "plasma" explanation for UFOs was not scientifically plausible, McDonald remarked "Klass Dismissed." In light of what is now known perhaps, if McDonald was alive he probably would have said as well CSI dismissed.
Last edited by Steve Zalewski on 13 Sep 2013, 09:49, edited 18 times in total.
Yes, I am very much aware of your information. I do have a question, though. Was it not Jacque Vallee who made the statement - "Klass is over?" If not, could you tell me where I can find McDonald's reference - "Klass dismissed." Thank you.
July 15, 2013
I never heard of the alleged quote by Vallee, however I do know that the remark "Klass Dismissed" was made by Dr. James E. McDonald.
I saw a reference to the quotation made by McDonald in Dr. David Jacobs, thesis on American UFO history, the thesis was published as The UFO Controversy In America. I know that McDonald's quote is published in Jacobs book.
I highly recommend Jacobs book above, since it is done very well.
I know Dave Jacobs, when I speak with him again I will check to see if he can verify the other quote to Vallee.
I hope I answered your question adequately.
Indeed you have, Steve. I shall try and find the Vallee reference. If you remember, I mentioned that I have read Jacobs' wonderful book - "UFO Controversy in America." In fact, my short list of grounded books one should read is:
1) UFO Controversy in America by Jacobs
2) The UFO Experience by Hynek
3) Above Top Secret by Good
4) Firestorm by Druffel
P.S. I will go back and find the McDonald "Klass Dismissed" in Jacobs' book.
Well done MIsha. Also, don't forget:
1) 50 Popular Beliefs That People Think Are True by Guy Harrison
2) The UFO Enigma: A Definitive Explanation of the UFO Phenomenon by Dr. Donald Manzel
3) Becoming a Critical Thinker - A Guide for the New Millennium by Robert Carroll
and, well, you get the idea...
I think No. 2 would be an interesting read, though I have read quite a bit on Dr. Menzel. No. 3 intrigues me. Keep in mind Stanton Friedman has done some excellent research on Dr. Menzel. Friedman went a long way proving that Dr. Menzel led a double life in UFO research (See Top Secret/Majic). Also, read "The UFO Enigma" by Peter Sturrock. It's an excellent read. I'm sure Steve Zalewski would agree.
July 23, 2013
To Professor Wag,
I have done some research about Menzel. While he was a highly respected astronomer, and a fellow alumnus of the University of Denver, there are things about Menzel that many people are not aware of. Menzel was an astronomer at Harvard, prior to his death in 1976.
1. Research done by Stanton Friedman, and other researchers have linked Menzel to having ties to the National Security Agency and to other intelligence agencies. It now appears that Menzel was debunking UFOs due to the national security threat the phenomenon presents.
2. Some of Menzel's case investigation "explanations" were so outrageous that they did not make any sense and were laughable. The Father Gill case is a perfect example. Menzel claimed that Father Gill and Steven Moi Gill were suffering from myopia and that the other witnesses were not wearing glasses. Come on, ALL of the eyewitnesses had such poor vision that they mistakenly took their squinting eyes for a UFO and the witnesses claimed they saw the occupants who stood on the craft and waved back at them in Boianai, New Guinea on June 25, 1958.
The event lasted for 3 hours and there were 25 or more witnesses. Menzel also claimed that the UFO could have been Venus, but while the case was happening, Venus was in a different part of the sky and in many instances UFO debunkers DO NOT do case investigations, and many of them "pontificate" and make pronouncements about the UFO phenomenon, but in reality their research is poor or non existent at best. According to Hynek Venus was pointed out by Father Gill, and that Father Gill was wearing glasses at the time of the sighting.
See my posting below, "Shutting Up UFO Debunkers" While no UFO debunker has refuted anything in my posting, I think that the UFO problem upsets the paradigm of many people and UFO debunkers don't want to face the fact that many times in the history of science new ideas were ridiculed and later proven to have an actual physical basis that changed our knowledge of astronomy, physics, etc. Meteors were ridiculed along with space travel, and as another example Galileo, and Copernicus, were both ridiculed for their discoveries, which were later proven to be correct.
I suggest that Professor Wag, ACTUALLY READ The UFO Experience A Scientific Inquiry, by Dr. J. Allen Hynek. Hynek was an authority on UFOs and his book is excellent.
November 10, 2013
Someone or something modified my posting about Dr. Donald Menzel. I doubt Menzel would have used telescopes designed for amateur astronomers, since he had access to professional astronomical telescopes at world renowned observatories.
If you are planning on purchasing a telescope the first tip I would give you is to go to the websites Astronomy.com and Sky&Telescope.com and read their on-line postings about HOW to go about purchasing a telescope.
Joining your local astronomy club would also be a worthwhile way to learn about telescopes, and I strongly recommend that you DO NOT purchase a telescope from a "Big Box" discount/ Wal-Mart type of store as the telescopes sold at these stores are generally very low in quality, and they end up usually taking up space gathering dust since they can be frustrating to use. Also ignore the hype on the box that "Brand X" telescope will go up to say 500x magnification. Light gathering capability is more important then magnification.
Good Luck to you. Also DO NOT buy a telescope off of those TV shopping channels as their telescopes are usually just as "bad" as the "big box store" telescopes I commented on in this posting.
Steve, I checked the logs and the only change in this topic was a deletion by you. We have had some glitches in the past and if you notice this sort of thing again, please let me know.
11 posts • Page 1 of 1
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest