Discussion about UFO's, Aliens, ET's, Alien Abductions, Ancient Astronaut theories, etc.
13 posts • Page 1 of 1
May 1, 2013
In my forty years of researching the UFO phenomenon, I have had the opportunity to have lunch and dinner with Dr. J. Allen Hynek and conduct high level SCIENTIFIC UFO research and speak at Cornell University to the Cornell University UFO Awareness Group, which was part of Cornell University Space Science.
I titled this posting, "Shutting Up UFO Debunkers" and yes it can be done. How do you "shut up" UFO debunkers?
By doing research that is extremely, extremely, extremely, extremely, extremely, difficult for them to refute.
Scientific UFO data DOES exist, however it is NOT widely distributed like the crackpot/cultist materials are, and a great deal of the data is in obscure peer reviewed scholarly journals in the fields of aeronautics, astronautics, astronomy, biology, chemistry, folklore, geology, history, physics psychology, psychiatry, optics, meteorology, military science, sociology, theology etc.
Before you begin gathering data make sure that you ARE very well informed about UFOs and UFO history.
The data is out there in many academic libraries, but you must LOOK FOR IT, in order to find it.
If you were doing research say on the Apollo 11 moon landing mission would you rely on crackpots? Of course not, SO WHY RELY ON CRACKPOTS AND CULTISTS FOR YOUR UFO INFORMATION? Crackpots and cultists DO NOT provide reputable information on UFOs, the primary objective of crackpots and cultists is making money off the UFO phenomenon. By the way, I DO NOT profit in any way on my UFO research activities.
Your database should be composed up of books by scientists, books and articles from credible UFO researchers, and scholars, government documents that have been verified as being authentic, scientific field studies, peer reviewed papers from scholarly journals, and AV materials of a credible nature. A number of Masters degree and Ph.D degree UFO thesis papers have been written, you should consider them as a data source as well.
In the database that I set up by being extremely careful I was able to keep out nearly 98-99% of the crackpot/cultist junk.
Your database should also be reviewed by scientists and academics who have published serious UFO literature, and by credible UFO researchers. Try to get some highly prestigious scientists with Ph.D credentials as some of your reviewers.
We also asked the skeptics to contribute materials, the skeptics would NOT donate anything. Oberg and Sheaffer did NOT respond, Klass sent a letter stating that he would not contribute anything and that his materials are at the American Philosophical Society in Philadelphia, PA. Many "skeptics" explain UFOs away without even taking the time to interview witnesses, or do case investigations. Yet these are the same people who rant and rave about how science is SUPPOSED to operate. They don't practice what they preach. Many debunkers, pseudoskeptics, and skeptics have developed an attitude that they are NEVER wrong about ANYTHING.
"There seems to be a category of persons, including some attracted to science, who conclude that they know what is good for the rest of us. They adopt a somewhat authoritarian and somewhat paranoid "thought police" mode. They become convinced that certain irrational concepts do grievous harm to individuals and may even threaten the rational basis of modern western civilization". As mentioned, Irving Langmuir was an earlier version of this class of individuals. (Today we have a whole organization of them, the Committee For Skeptical Inquiry, formerly the Committee for Scientific Investigation of the Claims of the Paranormal, CSICOP, proudly reveling in the COP status of their mental policing.)
Quoted from UFOs and Government, The Colorado Project, Chapter 14, page 321.
One of the reasons that the UFO subject is not taken seriously by most scientists is because of ignorance on the parts of the academic and scientific community.
Many scientists base their negative reactions on UFOs due to their lack of knowledge about the subject matter at hand.
Another reason is because new age kooks and cultists, and other crackpots have damaged this subject severely. In addition many members of the public shy away from this subject due the "bad press" associated with it.
The third reason is due to all the disinformation that is spread around by debunkers and pseudoskeptics, and by local Committee For Skeptical Inquiry debunking chapters which are "affiliated" with the national Committee For Skeptical Inquiry located in Amherst, NY, (a suburb of Buffalo, NY) or by other debunking/pseudoskeptical groups.
For those who don't know CSI (Committee for Skeptical Inquiry) is the new name for The Committee for the Scientific Investigations of Claims of the Paranormal, which was formerly known as CSICOP. By the way there is a CSI chapter in Syracuse.
Unfortunately, ignorance runs rampant in the UFO research field.
Of course the U.S. Government and various intelligence agencies have also spread around disinformation to the public, press, and scientific community, and to UFO researchers while studying the UFO phenomenon in highly classified projects away from the press, public, and prying eyes.
Even though Project Bluebook closed on December 17, 1969, due to the fact that the U.S. Government considers UFOs to be a MAJOR national security matter I can assure you that they are STILL doing research into the UFO phenomenon.
However all is not lost. Where do you get your UFO information from? Is it from Steven Greer's UFO cult, CSETI, or do you go to the J. Allen Hynek Center For UFO Studies website, http://www.cufos.org?
Do you get your information on UFOs from The Journal of UFO Studies, or the Journal of Scientific Exploration http://www.scientificexploration.org or from cultist sources like Billy Meier, George Adamski, or from other charlatans who have damaged this subject so badly.
Many people mix up scientific UFO data with cultist junk and reject scientific data and fail to "weed out" cultist junk from scientific data sources. If you go to the bibliography section, of Jacobs UFO book referenced below or look at the footnotes at the end of the chapters in Hynek's referenced book, you will find many credible journal sources that you can use in your data gathering.
Due to their lack of knowledge, many people fail to distinguish scientific data from the low quality junk produced by cultists and crackpots.
Many people also falsely assume that ALL UFO literature is junk, and they put scientific data in the same category as crackpot/cultist materials, and dismiss ALL of it.
You must have outstanding critical thinking skills to differentiate between scientific data, and cultist materials and disinformation produced by CSI debunkers, pseudoskeptics, and by CSI's local chapters, and by disinformation produced by government agencies.
(The UFO subject is one of the few subjects where many people consider themselves to be experts, but they have NOT done ANY research in this field. In addition, many people view cultists and crackpots to be "experts" in this field but they are NOT experts either.)
Many debunkers and "pseudoskeptics" have become "self appointed experts" in this field but their knowledge of UFOs is extremely poor to non existent at best. The debunkers and pseudoskeptics are NOT experts in this field either.
See "The Debunkers" by Dr. David Jacobs for a comprehensive analysis about how pseudoskeptics and CSI (Formerly CSICOP) operate. The paper is superb and a real eye opener.
I will recommend books that you can read which are not hard reading at all but are reputable.
1. The UFO Experience A Scientific Inquiry by Dr. J. Allen Hynek. For those who don't know Hynek was the official astronomer for the Air Force's UFO Projects Sign, Grudge, and Bluebook. Hynek also founded the Center For UFO Studies, and was a Professor of Astronomy at Northwestern University. Dr. Hynek passed away on April 27, 1986 in Scottsdale, Arizona. I knew Hynek personally.
Hynek's book above is superb and the book describes the various characteristics of UFO reports, the problems with The University of Colorado at Boulder UFO research project headed by Dr. Edward Condon, and the poor quality investigations and research done during the U.S. Air Force's UFO Projects, Sign, Grudge, and Bluebook.
2. The UFO Controversy In America by Dr. David Jacobs. Published by Indiana University Press. Dr. Jacobs retired from Temple University a few years ago, he is a UFO historian, and conducts research into the abduction phenomenon. The UFO Controversy In America, is an outstanding scholarly work in the form of a doctorate thesis in UFO history and I highly recommend this book. I know the author personally.
If you go the website for the J. Allen Hynek Center For UFO Studies and look on the site there are recommended books to read that are written by reputable UFO researchers and will give you worthwhile information. There also is a skeptics section on the Center's website.
Good Luck to you in your SCIENTIFIC data gathering efforts.
Steve Zalewski is an amateur astronomer, UFO researcher, and amateur photographer from Syracuse, NY. He received his Associates Degree in Electronic Media Studies, from Onondaga Community College in Syracuse, NY and his Bachelors Degree from the University of Denver, in Mass Communications.
Steve has been involved in the UFO research field since 1973, and knows some of the top people in this field in the world.
He is the founder of a UFO collection at Onondaga Community College in Syracuse, NY which was reviewed by Dr. W. Reid Thompson of Cornell University Space Science. Note, Steve is NOT employed by Onondaga Community College.
Dr. W. Reid Thompson wrote two letters on Cornell University Center For Radio Physics and Space Research letterhead to Onondaga Community College's library in 1993 stating that we are very impressed that the collection was "critically assembled". Dr. W. Reid Thompson was also Dr. Carl Sagan's assistant. Dr. Thompson's two letters on Cornell letterhead along with the envelopes, and his prestige make this project nearly 99.9% refute proof. Now, you can see why UFO research SHOULD be done like this.
Dr. W. Reid Thompson was also an astronomer at Cornell, his professional research work centered around studying the chemical makeup of Titan (a satellite of Saturn) and Reid was a member of the Galileo and Voyager 2 imaging teams, his professional research associations were with the American Astronomical Society, the American Geophysical Union Division for Planetary Sciences, International Society for the Study of the Origin of Life, and Sigma Xi. Reid also worked in Cornell's Space Science Lab, and the Laboratory for Planetary Sciences, and the Center For Radio Physics and Space Research at Cornell. Sadly, Reid came down with lung cancer and passed away on April 22, 1996 in Ithaca, NY.
(The reference for Reid's scientific and professional accomplishments was Reid's obituary notice published in the Ithaca Journal, April 24, 1996 page A4.)
Reid also stated that there is abundant evidence that some real physical phenomenon is behind the significant fraction of investigated UFO sightings that remain unexplained, despite good documentation from reliable witnesses (on the order of 20% of non trivial cases.)
Reid asked Steve to speak to the Cornell University UFO Awareness Group which Steve did do on June 5, 1993.
Dr. W. Reid Thompson has Steve's greatest respect for having courage and guts to investigate the UFO phenomenon in a high level scientific manner.
Data from the collection was sent up by Reid, to Dr. Carl Sagan for his examination. I miss Reid greatly. Reid was a fantastic astronomer for his fearless courage to be deeply interested in the UFO phenomenon, despite the stigma associated with studying the UFO phenomenon.
Reid was very curious about UFOs and he was a true scientist for not backing down in studying UFOs despite the ridicule factor associated with UFO research. Serious UFO researchers owe Reid a great deal of respect for trying to study this subject scientifically.
This collection is the only IVY League endorsed UFO Collection in the world.
Note due to the ignorance of the some people in the scientific community, the college's library staff, and debunkers, some of the material in the collection may have been thrown out from the collection.
Due to chronic medical problems I have had to completely cut back on data gathering on this project but I hope that my comments have encouraged you to use critical thinking skills when you do your UFO research and to make sure that your research rises up to Ivy League Standards and yes, some of the debunkers were very, very, upset locally that I made this project extremely, extremely, difficult for them to refute.
This is the way that UFO research should be done.
I raised the UFO field up to Ivy League Standards, if I can do it you can do it. Having extremely, extremely, high standards raises the credibility of UFO research to the public and scientific community, and makes the debunkers job much, much, more difficult for them to do.
I would like to thank the serious UFO researchers, scientists, and the former members of Cornell University's UFO Awareness Group for being so courageous in studying the UFO phenomenon, and for their support and assistance in my research and for their support of the database that I created at Onondaga Community College, in Syracuse, NY. Thank You again.
If you are a serious UFO researcher, please give me your comments and suggestions and feedback to this posting. I really want to encourage the usage of critical thinking skills and try to get the UFO field cleaned up so more scientists will be more likely to conduct research in this area. Thanks again for your comments and I look forward to hearing from you. Please put any comments to me in the post a reply section, or if SCEPCOP has a way to communicate with members, via email privately feel free to drop me a line. Thank You.
Last edited by Steve Zalewski on 18 Sep 2013, 07:27, edited 159 times in total.
I had lunch and dinner with Dr. Hynek in Syracuse on April 9, 1980. Allen passed away on April 27, 1986 I made an error as I did not want anyone to think that I had lunch and dinner with Dr. Hynek after he passed on.
Fine post and I concur with you. I have advocated the very books you have mentioned. I would also add the book "Firestorm" by Ann Druffel to your list. I think Druffel's book on the late Dr. James E. McDonald is an important read in how science was/is in default. I also agree that the phenomena has been commandeered by the Loony-tune, crystal head factions which has hurt a serious research into the matter. Unfortunately these psychologically unstable people are looking for spirituality in a phenomena not understood. When we accept that "A" for alien is beyond our ken and cease to apply our anthropocentric views then we will see a clearer picture on the cosmos.
May 2, 2013
Thank you as well for your kind words. Cultists/crackpots generally ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN MAKING FINANCIAL PROFIT OFF THE UFO SUBJECT. As an example Greer and his CSETI cult, have one primary objective and that is making money. Many other cultists and crackpots will promote the most outrageous claims to make a fast buck.
Be sure to check out the UFO HALL OF FAME AND HALL OF SHAME. Many of the best known cultists/crackpots are posted in the Hall of Shame.
Wonderful conversation. I will be adding these books to my 'to do' list.
Since I am a bit squeamish about UFOs (don't really know why), I seem to be developing a serious interest that I also can't explain.
And a hearty welcome to the forums Steve.
Agreed, Steve. Unfortunately with this crowd it comes with very big egos and territoriality. Frankly, I do not have a problem with those investigating this phenomena making a living out of it provided it is the truth, backed by field research, whether that be the physical study of the phenomena, intelligence research, political research and military research. If such financing can be had to help humankind understand the phenomena then I am all for it. I do have a very big problem with those who step on others because it threatens their perceived established rank in the food chain of information. When the more unsavory crowd compete for lectures, books, DVDs and television interviews for PERSONAL profit other than the truth then the study of the phenomena ceases to have credibility.
And,no. I have not taking one red-dime for my research.
May 4, 2013
I have NOT come to ANY conclusion on the UFO phenomenon at all. The reason being is that this phenomenon IS EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY,EXTREMELY complex to study.
It exhibits physical, psychic, psychological, characteristics, it is unpredictable as to when and where it will appear.
The UFO phenomenon leaves behind anecdotal evidence sometimes, such as landing marks, burned foliage, it has been tracked on radar, it certainly in some respects has exhibited other unexplained characteristics based on what abductees have reported from around the world.
I wish that I could have provided better answers, but that will probably come from research being done by scientists who have the COURAGE AND GUTS like Dr. David Jacobs, Dr.Jacques Vallee, Dr. Mark Rodeghier, Scientific Director of the J. Allen Hynek Center For UFO Studies, Dr. Michael Swords, and other Ph.D level scientists who have the GUTS AND COURAGE TO STAND UP TO The Committee For Skeptical Inquiry.
Last edited by Steve Zalewski on 04 May 2013, 22:08, edited 1 time in total.
May 4, 2013
This is my comment about the video image that was recorded, IT IS A LIGHT MOVING AROUND. To be honest with you from a scientific standpoint it proves NOTHING, since film, videotaped footage, digital camera footage, cellphone digital video footage, CAN BE ALTERED OR EDITED, THE FOOTAGE SHOULD analyzed by QUALIFIED film and or video engineers, AND the recording device should be checked by QUALIFIED engineers before any conclusions can be drawn.
Since there are no reference points such as buildings, trees, or other reference points, analysis would be more difficult. It is also difficult to tell if the light is moving on it's own, but some parts of the footage movement may be due to camera movement.
In addition, since all the image sources that I mentioned can be altered, edited, that is why I made the statement that it proves NOTHING.
According to J. Allen Hynek in his book The UFO Experience A Scientific Inquiry, UFO images prove NOTHING, they are only as good as the caliber of the person who presents it.
I took a second look at this video, some parts of it show nothing but a black screen, in the slowed down, enlarged sections show clear evidence digital noise is clearly visible. Digital noise is similar to grain in film, higher ISO speeds reduce image quality.
As the camera's ISO is raised for a higher setting the digital noise increases, and the image quality gets poorer. There is not much that can be done about it, it is the nature of the beast so to speak. I did not want to offend anyone with my comments, but the, footage and the camera used SHOULD be checked by QUALIFIED engineers before conclusions can be drawn. And being an amateur astronomer atmospheric conditions can distort views of things in the sky and many people have misidentified Venus as a UFO, when in reality it is a planet. The light when highly magnified and slowed down does change color, but so do stars and planets when the atmosphere distorts them, so again all I can say is that the image is a moving light. Unfortunately, there is no way for me to know if it is a nocturnal light, Venus, or a bright star, since I did not see this event live as it was happening. Sorry.
Last edited by Steve Zalewski on 04 May 2013, 22:40, edited 4 times in total.
"According to J. Allen Hynek in his book The UFO Experience A Scientific Inquiry, UFmages prove NOTHING, they are only as good as the caliber of the person who presents it."
I agree, Steve. However, I will give weight (credibility) to the "strangeness" factor by those who deal in the classified world with this phenomena. Yes, I understand Hynek's point on "strangeness" with these object's in the physical sense.
May 4, 2013
I feel that my comments are fair, and they are based on the images that I observed on my cellphone screen. I'm highly critical of the shenanigans that some people in the UFO community do. While, I based my comments based on my observation of the footage, I can't determine what the light is because I was not at the event when this image was recorded.
I don't know what date the event was recorded.
In addition, I recall Dr. J. Allen Hynek stating that not much can be determined about nocturnal lights because
many of them are too faint.
There is no question, that something was recorded and something is visible on the footage. Again, since I was not there I can't come up with any comment as to what the light was. All that I can say is that it is a moving light.
I strongly recommend that you read The UFO Experience--A Scientific Inquiry, by Dr. J. Allen Hynek. This book is excellent, and it will give you information on the UFO phenomenon, it's behavioral characterists, the types of UFO reports that are reported.
Don't let the title scare you it is all text and EASY reading. Sadly, many people get their UFO information from debunkers or cultists and crackpots. Crackpots, cultists, and debunkers are NOT EXPERTS on UFOs. See my posting "Shutting up UFO Debunkers" which I posted a few days ago. Good Luck to you. Also reread my posting, I was praising the scientists listed who have the guts and courage to do high level scholarly UFO data gathering and who do not "cave in" to CSI and it's psuedoskeptics.
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