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Simple questions on UFO

Discussion about UFO's, Aliens, ET's, Alien Abductions, Ancient Astronaut theories, etc.

Re: Simple questions on UFO

Postby Misha » 27 Oct 2012, 18:45

Arouet wrote:I'm just saying that its a little jerky to come in and say: "I've got all this evidence of so-and-so but I'm not going to tell you 'cause its top secret"

If its so important to national security for people not to know, why even hint at it in the first place?


Understood, Arouet. However, it is not top secret. I do not have clearance for this to be so. Heck, when posting I spend my time censoring what I would like to say. So, I pick and choose what I can/will say or allude to and let the reader infer what to think. It's the best I can do. Also, please be careful on the word "evidence." What we have is what I mentioned in a previous post concerning "preponderance of evidence."

As for people not knowing under National Security restraints depends on the person giving the information and the platform in which to convey it. I do not have a platform. I have no credibility. Ergo, who would even believe me. You see, this is how information works. People in the "Black World" do have to abide by National Security. They know the places, names and programs. They may not have the hard proof, though. Even Bob Lazar, if we are to take his story seriously, could only offer one item of hard proof. It was the element 115 evidence. However, at the end of the day even Lazar could not put this forth. If we are to believe his story, then producing such evidence would have been terminal. Yeah, why not "hint" how National Security works? The ET/UFO phenomena is an excellent venue to show how its done. This is very interesting to me.
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Re: Simple questions on UFO

Postby Misha » 27 Oct 2012, 19:02

SydneyPSIder wrote:From a totally different perspective, I have doubts about ET contact by 'govts' for the simple reason that the US govt is not acting as though it has access to any kind of technology transfer by more intelligent beings -- there is an obsessive focus by the US govt on gaining control of the world's remaining hydrocarbon resources, particularly trying to encircle Caspian Sea resources and prevent China and Russia and India from getting those reserves, barging into the Middle East, attempting to corrupt and control or overthrow regimes, etc. These are not the actions of a govt that knows it has access to amazing new energy sources that would allow interstellar travel, for instance. These are the actions of a people scrabbling to control existing known energy reserves.


Agreed, SydneyPSIder. "Governments" have not been contacted by ET. The governments do not have a need to know. The governments do not have clearances. Governments do not have access to this information. Not directed at you or Arouet, this is the hardest thing to get people to understand.

The U.S government or other foreign governments do not have access to other-worldly technologies. Besides, we can only simulate "their' technology based on our own physics. We don't even come close. Yes, this government or the west in general is about controlling resources such as oil, water, minerals and so forth. The hydrocarbon is about controlling people. Oil is the foundation that backs currency as we all know. How can governments introduce true mind bending free energy systems if they do not have clearances or access to it? Again, guys. This is how the National Security State works.
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Re: Simple questions on UFO

Postby SydneyPSIder » 27 Oct 2012, 20:00

Misha wrote:
SydneyPSIder wrote:From a totally different perspective, I have doubts about ET contact by 'govts' for the simple reason that the US govt is not acting as though it has access to any kind of technology transfer by more intelligent beings -- there is an obsessive focus by the US govt on gaining control of the world's remaining hydrocarbon resources, particularly trying to encircle Caspian Sea resources and prevent China and Russia and India from getting those reserves, barging into the Middle East, attempting to corrupt and control or overthrow regimes, etc. These are not the actions of a govt that knows it has access to amazing new energy sources that would allow interstellar travel, for instance. These are the actions of a people scrabbling to control existing known energy reserves.


Agreed, SydneyPSIder. "Governments" have not been contacted by ET. The governments do not have a need to know. The governments do not have clearances. Governments do not have access to this information. Not directed at you or Arouet, this is the hardest thing to get people to understand.

The U.S government or other foreign governments do not have access to other-worldly technologies. Besides, we can only simulate "their' technology based on our own physics. We don't even come close. Yes, this government or the west in general is about controlling resources such as oil, water, minerals and so forth. The hydrocarbon is about controlling people. Oil is the foundation that backs currency as we all know. How can governments introduce true mind bending free energy systems if they do not have clearances or access to it? Again, guys. This is how the National Security State works.


(I just wrote a number of paras which were promptly lost. I'll hurriedly retype something similar.)

I've come late to the convo, but doesn't 'clearances' imply the govt is in the know? Govts issue clearances.

If representatives of govt had been contacted, you would think the govts would be on their best behaviour in the hope of receiving some technology transfer and showing superior ethics, not rampaging around the world appropriating oil resources instead and showing how venal they are. I wonder if there's an intergalactic code of ethics or some sort of galactic UN, or whether they're somehow amoral or anything goes. e.g. earth intellectuals have developed a fairly good code of ethics and philosophical understanding, aroudn respecting sentient life forms, it's just that govts don't abide by them or pay much attention to them, being prepared to sacrifice individuals for a number of quite thuggish reasons.

I think most or all life forms in the universe would be carbon-based, at least initially, unless they can transcend that somehow later via advanced technology. The same elements are formed everywhere by dying stars. It's possible they've discovered other energy forms or artifacts or gotten around the space-time contimuum/distance problem using principles we don't understand.

They say the Earth is in a 'Goldilocks' zone -- plenty of water, atmosphere burning up meteors, magnetosphere deflecting radiation, not too hot or cold, but lack of radiation has meant many life forms here are extremely prone to radiation, making space travel difficult. It's possible DNA-based life has evolved in more robust ways elsewhere that is less prone to the effects of radiation. DNA or RNA or something similar.
Only turtles stand a chance in space, it seems.

Anyone remember a story about an immigrant worker who came close to a parked UFO? He claims to have seen the little greeblies, and when the craft took off it left a matrix of 3x3 burns on his torso because he was so close, which became scar tissue. So he claims. It's on the 'net somewhere probably.
Last edited by SydneyPSIder on 27 Oct 2012, 20:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Simple questions on UFO

Postby Misha » 27 Oct 2012, 20:05

Also, Arouet. Please find this quote made by me. It is in quotes, correct?

"I've got all this evidence of so-and-so but I'm not going to tell you 'cause its top secret"
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Re: Simple questions on UFO

Postby SydneyPSIder » 27 Oct 2012, 20:55

I can't find a convenient reference on the interwebs to the story of the US-German migrant worker with the scars, but it was on a US TV show some time back. Not coming up on the web at all with any likely keywords I can think of, which is a bit odd.
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Re: Simple questions on UFO

Postby Misha » 27 Oct 2012, 21:15

SydneyPSIder wrote:
Misha wrote:
SydneyPSIder wrote:From a totally different perspective, I have doubts about ET contact by 'govts' for the simple reason that the US govt is not acting as though it has access to any kind of technology transfer by more intelligent beings -- there is an obsessive focus by the US govt on gaining control of the world's remaining hydrocarbon resources, particularly trying to encircle Caspian Sea resources and prevent China and Russia and India from getting those reserves, barging into the Middle East, attempting to corrupt and control or overthrow regimes, etc. These are not the actions of a govt that knows it has access to amazing new energy sources that would allow interstellar travel, for instance. These are the actions of a people scrabbling to control existing known energy reserves.


Agreed, SydneyPSIder. "Governments" have not been contacted by ET. The governments do not have a need to know. The governments do not have clearances. Governments do not have access to this information. Not directed at you or Arouet, this is the hardest thing to get people to understand.

The U.S government or other foreign governments do not have access to other-worldly technologies. Besides, we can only simulate "their' technology based on our own physics. We don't even come close. Yes, this government or the west in general is about controlling resources such as oil, water, minerals and so forth. The hydrocarbon is about controlling people. Oil is the foundation that backs currency as we all know. How can governments introduce true mind bending free energy systems if they do not have clearances or access to it? Again, guys. This is how the National Security State works.


(I just wrote a number of paras which were promptly lost. I'll hurriedly retype something similar.)

I've come late to the convo, but doesn't 'clearances' imply the govt is in the know? Govts issue clearances.

If representatives of govt had been contacted, you would think the govts would be on their best behaviour in the hope of receiving some technology transfer and showing superior ethics, not rampaging around the world appropriating oil resources instead and showing how venal they are. I wonder if there's an intergalactic code of ethics or some sort of galactic UN, or whether they're somehow amoral or anything goes. e.g. earth intellectuals have developed a fairly good code of ethics and philosophical understanding, aroudn respecting sentient life forms, it's just that govts don't abide by them or pay much attention to them, being prepared to sacrifice individuals for a number of quite thuggish reasons.

I think most or all life forms in the universe would be carbon-based, at least initially, unless they can transcend that somehow later via advanced technology. The same elements are formed everywhere by dying stars. It's possible they've discovered other energy forms or artifacts or gotten around the space-time contimuum/distance problem using principles we don't understand.

They say the Earth is in a 'Goldilocks' zone -- plenty of water, atmosphere burning up meteors, magnetosphere deflecting radiation, not too hot or cold, but lack of radiation has meant many life forms here are extremely prone to radiation, making space travel difficult. It's possible DNA-based life has evolved in more robust ways elsewhere that is less prone to the effects of radiation. DNA or RNA or something similar.
Only turtles stand a chance in space, it seems.

Anyone remember a story about an immigrant worker who came close to a parked UFO? He claims to have seen the little greeblies, and when the craft took off it left a matrix of 3x3 burns on his torso because he was so close, which became scar tissue. So he claims. It's on the 'net somewhere probably.
Last edited by Misha on 28 Oct 2012, 06:26, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Simple questions on UFO

Postby Misha » 27 Oct 2012, 21:19

SydneyPSIder wrote:I can't find a convenient reference on the interwebs to the story of the US-German migrant worker with the scars, but it was on a US TV show some time back. Not coming up on the web at all with any likely keywords I can think of, which is a bit odd.


There was one case in Canada in 1967 in which a man was burned through radiation by a UFO. It left a spotted grill-like pattern on his stomach and chest. I can find this if you want.
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Re: Simple questions on UFO

Postby SydneyPSIder » 29 Oct 2012, 12:20

Misha wrote:
SydneyPSIder wrote:I can't find a convenient reference on the interwebs to the story of the US-German migrant worker with the scars, but it was on a US TV show some time back. Not coming up on the web at all with any likely keywords I can think of, which is a bit odd.


There was one case in Canada in 1967 in which a man was burned through radiation by a UFO. It left a spotted grill-like pattern on his stomach and chest. I can find this if you want.

Yes, that's the one. Can you find a link to a video or written story?

Donning the sceptics hat for a minute, it's possible this bloke had some strange industrial accident in a foundry or a BBQ or something similar that did it, then concocted a story about encountering a landed UFO with thingies inside, knowing everyone would think he's crazy or attention-seeking henceforth. While most people would not do that to themselves, there's quite a few 'ufologists' who are attention seeking and compulsive liars on the face of the evidence. This guy is not a ufologist, just a guy with a story.

EDIT: 1967, Falcon Lake, Manitoba incident
Stefan Michalak was burned by one of two flying saucers with which he reportedly came into contact on May 19, 1967 in Falcon Lake, Manitoba.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_Lake_Incident

It's amazing, put in any number of likely search terms and nothing came up. Make that Yugoslavian-Canadian worker...

Rutkowski and Dittman write that Michalak felt pain and sickness after his encounter and was treated at a hospital, initially claiming the burns were caused by airplane exhaust. Michalak's family physician reportedly stated that Michalak was confused and dazed but rational, and showed signs of hair loss and a series of raised oval-shaped sores on Michalak's chest and abdomen in a grid-like pattern, similar to a first-degree burn. Reportedly, health problems plagued Michalak for several months, including lack of appetite, weight loss, swelling, and fainting spells, despite a Mayo Clinic psychiatrist stating that Michalak was free of "significant mental or emotional illness."

Investigation
By late June 1967, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) had taken an interest in Michalak's claims. They could not identify the site on their own, and on June 1 they brought Michalak with them. However, Michalak could not locate the site, which raised further doubts regarding his claim. The RCMP also confirmed that Michalak had consumed multiple bottles of beer the night before the sighting.

By June 26, Michalak had located the site and recovered personal belongings he had left there. The RCMP obtained soil samples from the location, which they tested for radioactivity. The tests were negative.

On July 28, Michalak and RCMP officers together identified a semicircle on the rock face at the scene, 15 feet in diameter, where the moss had been somehow removed. There were traces of radiation in a fault in the rock across the center of the landing spot. No trace of radiation was found around the outer perimeter of the circle or in the moss or grass below the raised portion of the rock.

The radioactive material found in the rock fault was radium 226, a naturally occurring isotope in wide commercial use and also found in nuclear reactor waste. They concluded that the level of radiation posed no danger to humans in the area.

Michalak died in 1999, age 83.[1]


Showed signs of radiation sickness, but no residual radiation readings at the site itself. Lived to a hearty old age also.

The Dr Botta story from some 12 years earlier is very similar in some ways -- claims to have wandered onto a ship with dead inhabitants. Similar radiation sickness symptoms but no lasting ill health effects.

http://ufos.about.com/od/classicufocases/p/drbotta.htm
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Re: Simple questions on UFO

Postby SydneyPSIder » 29 Oct 2012, 13:23

ProfWag wrote:
classifiedBS wrote:1. What baffles me the most is that every eye witness account is a set of strange lights ,moving at a fast pace and performing evasive maneuvers.

Classified,
This isn't really accurate. A few are this way, but most are a myriad of different kinds of sightings. The UFO that I've seen twice, several years apart, was about the size of a house in a triangle shape with lights shining down from each corner and moved extremely slow--estimated at 10 mph (ala the Belgium UFO). Many do have strange lights though and this is probably attributed to the night time UFOs since they wouldn't be seen otherwise. One of the more famous UFOs are the Phoenix Lights which didn't move very fast and didn't perform evasive maneuvers.

P.S. For the record if you don't know me, I don't believe that the UFOs I've seen are "other worldly" but they were interesting none-the-less.


There's a lot of stories about the 'triangles'. Here's one from 1988 from Salem, Oregon:

http://ufos.about.com/od/ufossept2011/a ... iangle.htm

If they're not other-worldly, what are they? What is their propulsion method to be so silent? Unlikely to be a helicopter, blimp, etc, or a hoax or a USAF experiment etc.
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Re: Simple questions on UFO

Postby Misha » 29 Oct 2012, 20:20

Hi SydneyPSIder.

That's the one. The gentleman from Manitoba. I'll still look it up when I get the chance. I know a gentleman whose specialty is examining people who have been injured from UFOs. He is very much aware of the Manitoba incident. In fact, this same gentleman was involved in examining the victims in the 1980 Cash/Lundrum Incident. Yes, it appears that this was our craft. Again, appears....

As for the propulsion of "their" craft. One ET specie uses solar energy and interstellar gas with 100% efficiency and no waste. You can google the Mercury SOHO footage of a craft [?] illuminated by a solar flare. And, there is another footage of a large celestial like body taking on energy from the sun.

Very important. I cannot vouch for the footage whatsoever. I do not know if this is fabricated. However, I do KNOW that a source has explained this is how its done.
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Re: Simple questions on UFO

Postby SydneyPSIder » 30 Oct 2012, 08:12

A source, eh? Not the cancer man....????

I don't know how their propulsion works. The fact that people feel very woozy and giddy and have hair loss etc but recover and there's no real evidence of radiation might nonetheless imply that these beasties have somehow harnessed physics in a way that uses magnetism or 'anti-gravity' or some artifact of the space-time continuum itself to propel themselves -- or still some other method of propulsion -- and it's some sort of perturbation that our bodies are not well adapted to.

We've only just discovered/guessed/theorised that some 96% of the universe appears to be made up of dark matter and dark energy, and have no idea what it even is. This is the only way to explain effects of galactic speed and so on that can't be explained by an analysis of the force of conventional gravity. And we don't really know what 'space' as a continuum is either in the end -- is it really 'empty' or a kind of 3 dimensional 'material'?

Interstellar gas is extremely sparse in the universe, and it could only be stuff like hydrogen and helium. The sun is just a huge nuclear fusion reactor fusing hydrogen into helium and traces of heavier elements -- and dying or exploding stars simply throw out tons of heavier and heavier elements that make up planets like the earth -- I can't see how UFOs and ETs can harness either 'interstellar gas' or suck something out of a star. Even 100% solar energy on the face of the earth would be unlikely to supply enough energy to propel a UFO through the atmosphere in the ways described -- at great speed, changing direction, defying gravity, etc. There appears to be no collector apparatus on them either, they are tightly self-contained, unlike man's fragile space probes bristling with extensions and antenna made out of tin foil and struts.

So what has your 'source' explained???????

And all this is assuming there is some extraterrestrial intelligence visiting the earth and that at least SOME of the accounts and/or footage is a reality.
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Re: Simple questions on UFO

Postby Misha » 31 Oct 2012, 20:32

SydneyPSIder wrote:A source, eh? Not the cancer man....????

I don't know how their propulsion works. The fact that people feel very woozy and giddy and have hair loss etc but recover and there's no real evidence of radiation might nonetheless imply that these beasties have somehow harnessed physics in a way that uses magnetism or 'anti-gravity' or some artifact of the space-time continuum itself to propel themselves -- or still some other method of propulsion -- and it's some sort of perturbation that our bodies are not well adapted to.

We've only just discovered/guessed/theorised that some 96% of the universe appears to be made up of dark matter and dark energy, and have no idea what it even is. This is the only way to explain effects of galactic speed and so on that can't be explained by an analysis of the force of conventional gravity. And we don't really know what 'space' as a continuum is either in the end -- is it really 'empty' or a kind of 3 dimensional 'material'?

Interstellar gas is extremely sparse in the universe, and it could only be stuff like hydrogen and helium. The sun is just a huge nuclear fusion reactor fusing hydrogen into helium and traces of heavier elements -- and dying or exploding stars simply throw out tons of heavier and heavier elements that make up planets like the earth -- I can't see how UFOs and ETs can harness either 'interstellar gas' or suck something out of a star. Even 100% solar energy on the face of the earth would be unlikely to supply enough energy to propel a UFO through the atmosphere in the ways described -- at great speed, changing direction, defying gravity, etc. There appears to be no collector apparatus on them either, they are tightly self-contained, unlike man's fragile space probes bristling with extensions and antenna made out of tin foil and struts.

So what has your 'source' explained???????

And all this is assuming there is some extraterrestrial intelligence visiting the earth and that at least SOME of the accounts and/or footage is a reality.


Cancer Man????

The first thing I learned with this is not to get stuck in suppositions are what we know is stated facts with the phenomena. I can only speculate that there are other propulsive means to move a UFO around. As I stated above this to the best of my knowledge is how one specie gets around.
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Re: Simple questions on UFO

Postby SydneyPSIder » 01 Nov 2012, 06:35

The 'Cancer man' was the guy in The X-Files inside the govt who knew about the ETs and was hoping they would cure his cancer from smoking...
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Re: Simple questions on UFO

Postby Twain Shakespeare » 01 Nov 2012, 07:54

My own suspiscion is they find us hilarious, and the stereotypical ufo encounter shows up on the Galactic equivalent of the nature channel or youtube. This theory can also accunt for the sale of Nicklebach!
"What's so Funny about Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
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Re: Simple questions on UFO

Postby Misha » 01 Nov 2012, 18:47

Twain Shakespeare wrote:My own suspiscion is they find us hilarious, and the stereotypical ufo encounter shows up on the Galactic equivalent of the nature channel or youtube. This theory can also accunt for the sale of Nicklebach!


Hi Twain,

Not directed at you and with respect. However, this is the big, big problem with understanding the phenomena. We don't know how they feel. We, the UFO community, continues to project an anthropomorphic view on ET. People have to understand we don't understand them. It is "A" for Alien. I do think we puzzle the hell out of them. Then, again, am I projecting my own bias? Probably.
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