Discussion about UFO's, Aliens, ET's, Alien Abductions, Ancient Astronaut theories, etc.
Helo everyone. Ive been a UFO believer since I was young but that quickly changed as I advanced to major in Cognitive Psychology and later on Philosophy. Ive got some simple questions to ponder among us skeptics and are presented as follows.
1. What baffles me the most is that every eye witness account is a set of strange lights ,moving at a fast pace and performing evasive maneuvers. Maneuvers such as a square form, rectangle form, triangle etc. As per my cognitive and philosophical background I cannot make a theoretical conclusion. But I do have some basic knowledge in mathematics and physics and to maneuver objects, taking into consideration mass and weight, even with mind blowing propulsion systems, to a perfect square, rectangle etc is impossible.There should be a curve effect to a slightest degree. Can anyone with a mathematical background prove, disapprove or provide some sort of constructive argument please?
2. Eye witness account have gone so far as to outrageously claim these UFOs to be the size of a football field. The length of a football field is 360 feet or 120 yards. The width is 160 feet or 53.3 yards. In addition to this, there were strong red/green/white light beams. Gentlemen, such a massive structure can be seen for miles and miles away with the lights and yet just those town folk seem to have witnessed them? And an object of this magnitude has definitely got to show up on every radar entering the earth's atmosphere/hemisphere and location of sight. Yet nada on such info.
3. Another thing that amuses me is the abductees ever famous statement on "anal probing". Lets leave Aliens, UFOs, Grey Beings out of this for a second. What can we as human beings possibly gain from anally probing any living creature? Apart from the intestines, feces and the stomach what can we possibly gain to learn? Keeping this in mind, these so called grey being are allegedly more advances than us. If we as human being cant find any reason to go around anally probing test subjects for an experiment, what do these advanced beings have to gain? What is the concern here? In addition to this, abductees claim to have had sexual intercourse with "hybrids", humanoids, and/or humans. So after they were anally probed, they had intercourse and taken to different rooms and made to perform different tasks. What is going on here? Are they claiming that intelligent beings from a different solar system invested so much resources of their home planet to come to our solar system, specifically earth, to shot a porn video, probe us and disappear off into space? What kind of perverse nonsense is this? Its like saying I use my resources, monetary, natural and synthesized to drive upto to Vegas, make chickens/cattle/pets (since according to claims thats how these grey beings view us) to shoot a porn video, anally probe them, wipe their memories and drive back home. What kind of psychotic theory is this. My profession is to understand the human mind and cognitive psychology. If these being are more advanced than us then why such a primitive pattern can be derived? Out of all the scientific ways to experiment on us, collect DNA/bone marrow, sample the native race (humans) and alter DNA, anal probing seems to be their top agenda. Do you guys find this maddening or is it just me? The cattle mutilation is also fascinating.These so called intelligent advanced beings also anally probed cattle, dissected them and left them where they are to be magically discovered by us. Yet these being want to maintain secrecy at the same time. Can you see a kind of pattern emerging that contradicts behavior, eye witness, abductee statements?
4. Apart from anal probing, intercourse and/or other mentally demented perverse methods being a common denominator, there seems to be multiple abduction cases. Let us assume for argument sake we as humans want to discover/experiment or learn about a species. Historically, we select a specimen, breed it in captivity or controlled environment, study it dissect it, write a hypothesis and be done with it. I remember in high school we dissected a frog once and only once. We didnt go around anally probing it, its ancestors and keep multiple tabs on generations. So these aliens being more advanced than us still use some primitive method by constant abductions in open and keeping tabs on us? What is going on? For being such an advanced race I see ludicrous experimentation methods. Moving on.
5. Another aspect as to why abductions take place is because these aliens are a dying race/see us as a sustainable life source and/or feed on our fear, thoughts, emotions and brain waves. WHAT???!!!!???? And there are also some outrageous claims such as these aliens transfer our consciousness to a dummy or vessel entity and transfer their consciousness into us to make us comply. WHAT???!!!!??? And they go as far as validating this by bringing neurology into the scenario. Neurology is the study of our nervous system, our central and peripheral route. Rational thinking of a human mind may be mapped but emotional aspects remain a mystery hence some say we have a soul. I agree to this to some extent as in a given set of circumstances, in a controlled or uncontrolled environment, rational thinking among us can be predicted. For example, in a simple scenario lets say we have a need to eat, we have $5, and we would like to maximize our intake. On a rational basis we can make predictions on what meal options we might pick. But on an emotional scale we all differ from each other and our choices can be unpredictable and random. With this being said, our consciousness is being psychically transferred to a separate entity? The magnitude of this claim is beyond maddening. Even with the advancement in Neurology I dont see a way in developing methods to influence out consciousness against our will. A robot...yes. An android....yes. But not self aware entities such as us. We can be pursued, recommended and/or guided to do a certain thing, but forcefully impossible. Brute force is the only way, perhaps fear or love or other emotions. But to psychically remove/transfer our consciousness?? *Ninja kick*
Id like to conclude my arguments by saying this UFO phenomenon may be complex and mind blowing when presented on a large scale and blown out of proportion. But when you sit down and really think about things trying to find out a rational or motives behind all whats going on it starts to appear outrageous. I may or may not be wrong. These are just a few simple questions from my psychological background. I always welcome constructive criticism and arguments. Please feel free to have an extensive discussion and debate as you see fit.
This isn't really accurate. A few are this way, but most are a myriad of different kinds of sightings. The UFO that I've seen twice, several years apart, was about the size of a house in a triangle shape with lights shining down from each corner and moved extremely slow--estimated at 10 mph (ala the Belgium UFO). Many do have strange lights though and this is probably attributed to the night time UFOs since they wouldn't be seen otherwise. One of the more famous UFOs are the Phoenix Lights which didn't move very fast and didn't perform evasive maneuvers.
P.S. For the record if you don't know me, I don't believe that the UFOs I've seen are "other worldly" but they were interesting none-the-less.
Question: Why the lights anyway? If they wanted to go about doing things covertly why the lights? Basic human behavior of doing things on a covert basis is to remain unseen. Even on a day to day basis if we dont want anyone to see us, notice us or be caught doing something we dont want others to know, we maintain cover. So why are these so called beings lighting up the sky with candy lights? What are they trying to achieve? What are the motives? What is their rationale?
Whether objects move slow, fast, perform evasive maneuvers or just appear and disappear how come it always shady. For whatever reason ETs, inter-dimensional beings, grey being or citizens of Probingyourassistan have come, its been more than half a millenia and still things are shady as ever. Does any of this makes sense to you Proff? Assuming you go by the name ProfWang I can safely conclude you are a professor of some field. Based on your field of study can you derive any sort of rational behavior of these so called beings? If yes or no id like to see some sort of hypothesis.
I was just a former Professor of Management so no, I don't have any kind of educational background in this stuff, though I can lead you through the "Five Why's" to see if you can figure it out... . But to answer your question, no, I don't have a clue.
My biggest question to UFOolgists has always been this: Okay, I can almost think that one craft from another universe can visit us. However, there are about as many different kinds of sightings as there are people who see them. There are craft that move fast, slow, are small, large, triangle shaped, cigar shaped, saucer shaped, look like a top, and so forth. If that's the case and all of these people are actually seeing craft from another world, why are they all so different? To believe all the people that see UFOs would mean that literally thousands of different aliens have visited earth from a different world (or dimensions) and didn't leave their business card. It seems to me that surely some of the aliens from all the different universes that come here would be friendly enough to actually want their picture on T.V...
Management eih? Ok lets take a managerial perspective. For argument sake,let us assume these being operate on a similar business philosophy as us humans. Such:
A. Return on investment.
D. Objective oriented.
E. And strategies to be carried out in a finite time frame.
These principles may or may not be, like mathematics, on a universal or multi universal basis. And mixing in psychology (trying to find a rationale or motive for these behavior).
Heres the good part. Even after taking into assumptions of these man made principle there still isnt any that makes sense.
Going by principle A. I dont see any return on investment for showing up, probing us, collecting sample for over half a millennia and disappearing. Im sure it took some significant amount of resources from where ever they came from to perform such activities. Even if we assume they sampled us and started some psychotic human farm in their home planet, according to science and history, samples get diluted in some way. So they either have to repeatedly come back which brings us to point B. Sustainability.
Why dont we send shuttles or space ships every other day into space? Why do we have limited air crafts flying globally? Its to the simple fact that resources are scares. So from where do these beings get unlimited resources to keep flying back and forth for probing or pass through dimensions? The idiocracy of all the UFO nuts out there dont seem to think widely on all aspects and yet they have the nerve to blame skeptics for not being open minded. They seem to come up with some sort of theory or explanation that immortalizes these beings to able to do anything possible and imaginable. However advanced they may be theres always someone higher looking to gain something.
So then arises the question of Feasibility. How feasible is this entire operation they got going on? More than 50 yrs long and still we dont know jack shit? Apparently they seem to know more than we do. Nothing remains hidden for long. Even if we assume if it is feasible what is the objective of all this? Im sure it must be more than showing up randomly, abducting the populace, butt inspections and chopping up cattle. With all the technological advances we as a human race have seen im sure it would take less to contact us other than the government or make their intentions clear. Yet nothing emerges.
With all this going on over decades, things to be carried out in a finite time frame dosent seem to emerge. They come and go and do random things as if they have nothing to do whatsoever. Even we as human beings dont do anything where theres nothing in it to gain. Yet these advanced being seem to do so.
I may have a moderate masters in cognitive psychology but I would take on any PhD nut case that comes up with ludicrous theories and explanations. The world is dying, women and children are starving to death, the climate is changing and yet they have time to sit on their asses and make maddening claims. Why dont they put their PhD to good use and actually do something viable for their own species. Nope, they like to dream about beings spreading their butt cheeks instead.
Even if the govt pulls wool over our eyes in any method, educating oneself is the best defense. That way we could see through things. Heres an alien pick line for the guys. Girl are you an inter-dimensional being cause your ass is out of this world. lmao (ive voluntarily reduced 2 IQ points and shamed my masters just writing that joke). cheers wanggy.
I agree its a complete waste of time and resources. Due to zero gravity in space our govt started a massive research to invent pens that can write in zero gravity.Yet the Russians used a simple pencil to solve the ink and gravity problem. The magnitude of such idiocracy is simply unbelievable. How did the human race become so hopeless. Amuses me to no end.
Nice thread. Beyond being sure there is some phenomenon behind the data, I am agnostic about interp. It could be entirely a psychological phenomenon on par with other mythologies (but that involves accepting the theory "religion" is "just" a psychological phenom) It could be, as Jacques Vallee came to bellieve, a government disinfo program designed to spread fear, uncertainty, and pseudo-religious obfuscation in order to make us easier to control (and I am positive at least some of the data comes from such programs. Human managerial motives,
Return on investment etc are plausible, but the whole thrust of the argument works against considering the Men in Black aspects.
It "aliens" are involved, it could be, as Iche claims, a long term program whereby they are already well on their way to the goal. However, I suspect that if aliens are involved, their actions are "criminal" by their own standards, the indulgence of a perversion. But, as I said, I have so little reliable data I might as well be speculating on why so many angels dance on pinheads.
"What's so Funny about Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
What we do know is humans are obsessed with sex. I do not find it improbable that any aliens close enough to us in form would be equally obsessed, but I find it highly unlikely anyone has been anal probed by swamp gas acting like the planet venus in a velikovsky book. Now Jupiter, that's plausible.
Vallee, aside from thinking much of the phenomenae are govt disinfo, also suspects the ufonauts are the same as the elves and devas. Those blank have been sexing us for millenia.
"What's so Funny about Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
As for question 1, I'm no mathematician but if the propulsion system is truly mind blowing then I don't know that our terrestrial physics apply at all.
Question 2, Someone else already pointed out the phoenix lights.
Question 3, I'd guess they're watching certain dna strands, could be any number of things you can find out from the butt. To quote Wilfred "Some people think that the eyes are the window into the soul. Couldn't be more wrong."
As for the cattle, bovine dna is very close to human dna (or so I've heard), surrogate mothers? I know it's far out, and I'm not saying I believe all of this but I can't prove that's not it either.
Question 4, This one puzzles me as well.
Question 5, I think all the wild speculation is a result of so many credible people seeing and talking about things that simply aren't being explored scientifically, and therefore can't be explained. I think we have the U.S. government to thank for a lot of the cover up, and negative stigma still associated with the subject.
Occam's Razor is a principle urging one to select from among competing hypotheses that which makes the fewest assumptions.
Some people would claim,
That Bob Lazar is a charlatan.
That Travis Walton is a slow logger in need of an excuse.
That every picture or video is either misidentified or a hoax
That every personal story is made up or a delusion.
In my mind the simplest answer is that the earth is traversed every day by craft using technology currently unknown
to the majority of the scientific community and to the majority of human beings on this planet.
And the first time they just bribed everyone with the Apollo budget money not to blow the whistle, and never actually left earth orbit...
Yes, SydneyPSIder. The threads are pretty quiet, at least in venues we have been posting. If you haven't noticed I have purposely stayed away from the UFO/ET thread. There are good reasons for this not just because of the tin-foil heads, disinformation, misinformation and everything we yet do not understand with the phenomena, but also for personal reasons.
Fortunately and unfortunately I have been lucky in this area of research. Yes, I have met a couple of people who are in the "Black world" who have been involved in these classified programs. Vallee is wrong on one level, though. Yes, there is a phenomena that reaches beyond the physical as we understand it. However, there is without question a 3D reality with the extraterrestrial presence on this planet that would make our head's spin. In fact, this presence has been with the human specie since the dawn of time. Also, frankly, we do not know how many species are visiting [?] this planet. We are a proverbial "truck stop" in so many respects.
I am 99% certain, short of seeing one, that we are not alone. By not being alone, they're here and always have been. Unfortunately, the National Security State will not publicly acknowledge this due to the meltdown factor. Need I list the reasons why? This may change though. I am hopeful this will happen, but not by our hand which is disclosure. Disclosure will not happen because of the plethora of agendas and provincial thinking by the rank and file elite. Few really understand what is going on. And even this few do not have a handle on it. And that's the rub....
Ok, guys. Now I know some of you will accuse me of engaging in an Ipse dixit response with the phenomena. This is not the case. I can only say that the more I learn on this subject the more I find myself keeping it to one's self. And yes, generally ET species are upright and bipedal. However, at least one is not.
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