I was viciously attacked in two skeptics forums

[Arouet]

It always amazes me when people complain about how mean the skeptics are, then show themselves to be just as rude, and not see the hypocrisy.

[August West]

You are calling ME rude? How exactly? By pointing out your blanket declarations of how alien abductees should act and react is way off-base? You tell me what "the pattern" of abductee behavior is, and how there are "a few exceptions to the rule, but not many", and you call me rude when I ask where you got that information (still waiting for an answer, by the way)? You say the fact that my family was abducted too it is a "hole" in my story, when actual research into alien abductions shows this to be common, and when I point out you don't know what you're talking about, somehow I'm rude? Don't make me laugh, it is you who have been rude.

Do you lack the capacity to realize how rude it is to tell an actual alien abductee how exactly he is supposed to act and react? To tell a real abductee that he or she would never debate? That a real abductee is always "unsure" it really happened? That a real abductee must fear he is "loosing" his marbles? Now THAT is rude. Rude and ruder.

What do you do on your days off, tell rape victims how exactly they are supposed to act? To tell rape and kidnapping victims what they should say and what they shouldn't. And you say I'm rude. Don't make me laugh.

And if you think that is an unfair analogy, it is not. The differences between a kidnap or rape victim and an alien abductee are minimal. Both involve terror, fear, helplessness, and unwanted, horribly painful physical procedures. The main difference is that most people believe the rape victim, and there are many public services to help them deal with the trauma. Not so for abductees.

[ProfWag]

[ProfWag]

Getting back to the subject of alien abductions, however, there are many reasons why I question the reality of abductions. Again, August, I don't want you to get defensive, but I think these are legitimate observations of all abduction claims.
IF an abduction happened, then we're talking about creatures that aren't seen regularly. They must be from another planet or at least the depths of the earth (I seem to remember Hopkins saying onetime that he didn't like the term "extraterrestrial" which means they may not come from space.) This begs the first major question of "how did they get here?" I know, I know, dimensions--warp speed--etc., but that's still a question that hasn't been definitely answered.
Next, if they silently communicate, then this also shows "proof" of telepathy which we, on earth, have not yet accomplished.
Why does no one else see them? Neighbors, radar, etc. Once again, we have to talk about technology that we, on earth, do not yet have.
This may also see trivial, but how do they get inside the house? Walk through a wall? Open a locked door or window? Once abducted would you not put an alarm in the house that would set off a notice to authorities? Again, that may sound trivial or even silly, but still a question I've always had. I've heard some say they just show up inside next to the bed, but how did they get there?
What about pets or other animals? Are they not interested in them as well? If not, why not? If so, do they get abducted as well?
Do they ever show up when there's snow outside? If landed, that would definitely leave physical evidence, but I've never heard of an abduction in the middle of winter in North Dakota.
Finally, for now, I'm of the understanding that many abductees are left with implants. Have any of the implants been investigated and if so, were the origins shown to be not of this earth? (Of course, if it was material found on earth, that wouldn't mean the material couldn't be found on other planets or locations...)

[Craig Browning]

I need to correct a few things there ProfWag; Telepathy is the one psychic ability that science considers the most likely to exist and easily proved. Too, most working in the medical research field in which thought is being used to control a mouse or even the games that move the little ball through hoops as well as the air hockey game that uses bio-rhythm control (real popular in Sweden and Norway) all tie strongly to telepathic commands (though a PK type effect may be the ultimate end result).

Secondly, many UFOs have been sighted on Radar, by Pilots (private as well as military & commercial) but because the paperwork is a pain in the butt to deal with (on purpose) and the related ostracizing (even black-listing) comes into play, "Official" documentation is nil. This is especially so when it comes to any aspect of military record. Thing is far too many trained observers have witnessed the same exact events that were validated by radar/flight tower observations.

When it comes to August's whining about my critique earlier I simply need to point out to you (August) that I endure many of the same clashes of opinion and challenge in my life because of my support around things Psychic & Spiritual. But even within that arena (and the guys here will validate this) I am critical and suspect of persons that make big claims that are overly dramatic simply because it is NOT the applicable norm. Back when I studied UFO phenomena and the handful of times I've been with serious researchers since I've learned what the patterns are and yes, PTSD is quite common which typically result in withdrawing from social settings, becoming more of an introvert, less confident or secure in life (especially your own decision making and understanding of things). People tend to become disoriented and many require short-term institutionalization and on-going medication. Let's face it, we're talking about a traumatic encounter.

Yes, there are instances in which alien contact seems to focus on certain genetically related groups, I've even stated that in this thread and explained some of the theories as to why this might be based on both, legend and certain pagan traditions. But there are likewise scenarios in which the child is imprinted by the parent's delusion and thus, an ideology is perpetuated; this can be anything from the distrust found in the black community towards whites because of the various modes of oppression they've known at our hands to how "beliefs" are passed on, including tales of Big Foot, the little people and alien contact. . . I have many a hillbilly relative in those West Virginia hallars that have more than a few wild yarns to tell that mirror everyone of those claims, it's how rural people entertain one another and has been for hundreds if not thousands of years -- human beings are story tellers; intentional or not we love to talk about that big fish that got away (metaphorically speaking).

Based on such things as well as my personal experiences in and around the surreal, I can rightly state that very few actual abductees run out seeking recognition for the event, it simply goes against typical psychological reaction to what's typically described as being an invasive and cold encounter. It is also why I know for fact that the majority of folks that make it a big deal and want to be challenged, usually have blown things way out of proportion IF their encounter was even remotely genuine and more than likely fit into certain specific psychological niches. I loathe saying that but I've learned over the years that certain things that look and sound like a duck really are a duck.

I'm not trying to insult you or tick you off. I am however giving you reason to stop and reconsider your claims. Turn off you head and the drama and filter the stories; simplify things so you can actually "see" what might not have happened. That may sound strange but until you are willing to get critical of such events on your own and honestly seek out possible explanations that will challenge your perception, even you can't say for fact that what you're "remembering" was the real McCoy or not. Believers far more than the natural skeptic, owe it to their claims to be skeptical and ask questions.

[ProfWag]

[August West]

Frankly, I can't decide which of you two knows less about what they speak. You both strike me as complete idiots, sorry. Rude, but honest. Are there any adults that post on this forum? If not, I'd just as soon close this thread.

if I had time to waste, I'd go through Craig's last post line by line and point out how incorrect he is with almost everything he says. Craig, I'll ask again, where did you do your research on alien abductees? You bluster quite a bit, but it's clear you have never actually researched any alien abductees. And for you to say you've endured what I have endured as an alien abductee simply because people disagreed with your views shows you really know nothing about alien abductions at all. You're disgraceful, actually. Go tell a rape victim that you understand what they experienced because people were mean to you because you like ghosts. Your lack of understanding is matched only by your sense of self-importance. I guess there was a good reason the aliens wanted my DNA and not yours.

[August West]

This thread is over, as far as my participation goes. I'll try another thread and see if I can't garner some intelligent responses. So far, the caliber of intellect in here has been woefully disappointing. Good night, Mrs. Callabash, wherever you are.

[Arouet]

I think we need a new thread entitled: "I was viciously attacked by an alleged alien abductee in this forum"!

[Craig Browning]

Given the "holier than thou" attitude August seems to have (no one knows more than he does, no one has endured what he endures, etc) I can fully understand why any sane person would want to lynch him. . . hell, a saint would want to slap the clown.

I think maybe you (August) just need to start your own forum where you can have people that won't question you log in and kiss your virtual tukkis. You came here looking for what you didn't get -- people to agree with and not challenge you and your claims. When it comes to "Intelligent" people you aren't going to get that, we will ask questions and we will want more than hearsay.

As I've stated, I've not been actively vested in the UFO world for decades (the 70s) but I have had some off and on contact with legit researchers over the years as well as people that I honestly believe to have been abductees. I have my own experiences within this world that I do not talk about, mostly because I was asked to keep it quiet by others that were involved but too, I simply have no reason to discuss it. I will point out something however; I grew-up very close to two major Air Force Bases in Ohio; Rickenbacker and Wright Patterson both of which were quite involved with Project Blue Book as well as several other "classified" studies tied to UFO & Alien research. When I lived in the Vegas area 15 miles past the back door of our very remote home (we lived about 40 minutes outside of town) was Groom Lake. . . so tell me I've not only been in the midst of UFO central, but didn't have access to people that were involved. . . including genuine NASA Scientists.

Now you keep insulting me and the others on this board, if this is how you acted on the other forums I can't blame them for treating you with disdain, you're being an ASS when people don't agree with you and without question, support your delusion. . . and yes, I'm going to call it that because I do have the background that allows me to see your psychological profile and niche; you're too desperate and as such, unbelievable. That is the reality I think we're all seeing here.

I can assure you, most of the active members on this forum have some reasonable level of education and training in critical thinking. I'd say that most of us could qualify for genius level classification when it comes to Intelligence Quotient testing and too, the group of us make up a pretty decent representation of popular thought -- the social & academic demographics of the nation, so you're not likely to get any more fare a shake anywhere other than maybe a UFO based forum and at that, I don't think you'd be taken too seriously on certain of those sites due to your sense of desperation to be believed and/or prove what you claim is true.

I'm betting you never heard the word "NO" too often when growing up

[ProfWag]

I was just getting ready to ask August where I could find transcripts of the investigation into his case. Based on the wording of his last couple responses, however, I'm pretty confident of why he was "viciously attacked" in other forums.
I've been reading Budd Hopkins' website and I think I've found the source of the defensiveness from abductees. In one post, he turns the tables on skeptics and decries that we all believe that abductees are "Gay, mentally ill, publicity-seeking little nobodies." (http://www.intrudersfoundation.org/witn ... ation.html) I would like to add that this could not be further from the truth and is actually quite offensive to me.
It's still a fascinating subject though and I wish that rather than getting defensive, an abductee would just present evidence that we could actually evaluate.

[August West]

Bad dog, Craig! Bad dog! No bone for you, boy!

Now this fool is calling himself a genius. I told you folks he had an inflated sense of self, and suffered from hubris. I'd like to buy this guy for what he's worth and sell him for what he THINKS he's worth. I could retire.

As for your wanting to become violent, you talk of both slapping and lynching me, this tells us all we need to know about your "reasonable level of education" and your "critical thinking skills". Violence against someone who says things you don't like? That sort of "critical thinking" you might find in a dog's mind, maybe your avatar is more honest than I thought. If you are really a German Shepard, it would explain your ignorance regarding alien abductions and UFOs.

[August West]

One other point these two dogs don't seem to understand, for some reason. The keep saying I'm "desperate" saying I have a "desperation to be believed and or prove it is true".

Couldn't be further from the truth. I came in here to share facts about aliens, both physical and technological. Those who care to benefit from my knowledge, great, those that don't, don't. It was these two dogs that started begging me to prove it, begging pathetically "for some way to determine it's true". It was a sad spectacle. I told them to make up their own minds. All they did was beg further for proof, completely uninterested in even hearing what I know.

Let me make this clear, if I haven't already: What they believe is up to them, I could care less if they realize what is actually happening with the aliens. Craig, Wag, et al, are completely welcome to remain just as ignorant as they are. This is America, ignorance is encouraged. It isn't my problem what they are aware of. I do my part by sharing what I know, use the information or don't, it certainly isn't my job to prove it to anybody, let alone a few idiots on the internet.

Please, stay ignorant. It suits you better than your "desperation" for proof.

Hope that clears that up.

[ProfWag]

[Craig Browning]

OMG! I'm Ignorant!

Gesh! I hope I can sit at the feet of a master guide such as you August and bask in the glow of your unquestioned knowledge.

Pardon my language folks but this ass clown is full of SHIT! PERIOD!

I think I've tried to be more than reasonable with him and nowhere close to rude until the last two posts. AFTER he started raving about my not knowing what I'm talking about, etc.

He just wants to hear from people that will cosign his DELUSION and nothing other.