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I was viciously attacked in two skeptics forums

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I was viciously attacked in two skeptics forums

Postby August West » 30 Jan 2012, 06:19

Hi, this is my first post here, thanks in advance for any words of welcome. I spent some time trying to discuss UFOs and alien abductions in a couple of skeptics website forums; namely the Skeptics Society forum, and the Skeptic Friends Network forum, and man, oh man, what a wasted effort it was. I had expected a level of skepticism that was scientific and open-minded, I thought it would be a place of reason and curiosity, but that was not the case. They were dens of vipers, relying on ridicule and an anger fueled by mob mentality, and they trotted out all the same worn cliches regarding aliens and abductions. It would be laughable if it weren't so sad, and if it weren't such an important discussion.

So, it' good to be here.

I'm in an unusual (but not by any means unique) position regarding the debate about aliens. To me, it isn't a topic of speculation, I happen to be in a position of direct knowledge regarding certain aspects of the alien situation, and I'm happy to share what I know with anyone interested enough to ask me about it.

So often, a discussion or debate about aliens is thought of as being between two schools of thought, people who think aliens are visiting the Earth and abducting people, and people who do NOT think aliens are visiting the Earth and abducting people.

But in reality, there are three positions:

1.people who think aliens are visiting Earth and abducting people.
2.People who do NOT think aliens are visiting the Earth and abducting people.
3. People who KNOW as fact that aliens are visiting the Earth and abducting people.

Through circumstance, I happen to fall into the third category.

I'd love to discuss the topic further, with people from any point of view. Thank you.
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Re: I was viciously attacked in two skeptics forums

Postby Arouet » 30 Jan 2012, 09:09

August West wrote:1.people who think aliens are visiting Earth and abducting people.
2.People who do NOT think aliens are visiting the Earth and abducting people.
3. People who KNOW as fact that aliens are visiting the Earth and abducting people.


Welcome, I'm a skeptic myself, but don't much approve of those who ridicule. I don't have a big interest in the UFO question, but I think your categories are a bit off.

(3) really is a subset of (1): ie: all of 3 will be part of 1 but not all of 1 will be part of 3.

My position is pretty simple: I think there is a decent chance that there are advanced beings out there in the universe, but that likely they are VERY far away and would have to figure out how to not just go faster than the speed of light but substantially faster than the speed of light to get here. Then, there's the problem of how they would find us amongst the billions of stars out there. Then, you also have to believe that they have spaceships that are capable of being virtually undetectable here on earth, and to leave virtually no evidence of their existence. And finally that they would decide, once here, to not make contact in any major way.

Would I say any of that is impossible? Apart from the speed of light thing (which might be) - maybe not. But I would put that in the unlikely camp.

Anyhow, welcome to the forum!
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Re: I was viciously attacked in two skeptics forums

Postby August West » 30 Jan 2012, 18:43

let's see here... thanks for your reply of course, but knowing as fact that aliens are here and abducting people is in no way a subset of thinking or believing that they are. If anything, 1 and 2 are more closely related, as they are beliefs and speculation, conclusions drawn from somewhat limited information, the only difference being that one group finds the information they have been exposed to is sufficiently compelling or convincing, and the other group feels the opposite. Both positions 1 and 2 are basically guesses. The difference between guessing, correctly or incorrectly, and knowing, is vast. I suppose I did leave out a category of people who are still up in the air and undecided, but I hope my point was clear.

As far as your position, it's one I hear quite often, "It's too far!" and "the speed of light is the rule!"

\To impose upon alien cultures our current scientific limitations is folly. Humans advanced from horseback to the moon in the span of a single century. It is impossible to imagine the technological achievements of an advanced race of beings with, say, a million years head start on us. Or a billion years.

Not to mention the fact that the speed of light doesn't even seem to be a sacred limit to even us humans these days, with scientists claiming success in sending photons inbedded with information faster than the speed of light, in just the past couple of years. If it isn't a hard limit for us, why claim it would it be for a far more highly scientifically advanced culture?

Then you say it is hard to believe that their 'spaceships' could come to Earth and be 'virtually undetectable'. Just this week it was reported that researchers at the University of Texas in Austin have succeeded in cloaking an object by exposing that object, covered in plasmonic meta-materials, to microwaves. The effect was invisibility from all angles of view. So again, if we are developing this technology, why would it be far-fetched to expect the same of an alien culture with a much more advanced level of technology?

Although I'm not certain why you describe the aliens ships as 'virtually undetectable', these ships are regularly seen clearly with the human eye, and have been captured by the most rudimentary cameras, from brownies to Polaroids. Their moving images have been caught by tech as low as super 8 reel-to-reel, as well as more advanced imaging such as radar and infra-red.

Thanks for the welcome!
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Re: I was viciously attacked in two skeptics forums

Postby ProfWag » 30 Jan 2012, 21:48

Welcome August. I'd be curious to know how you know about the reality of aliens on earth?
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Re: I was viciously attacked in two skeptics forums

Postby ProfWag » 30 Jan 2012, 23:13

Oh, by the way August, I did a quick looksy at those forums to see how bad they treated you (as I, like arouet, don't feel skepticism is a place to attack), and I couldn't find anything with your name. Could you post or pm me your user name on those forums? If it was like you say, I would be the first person to write their moderators...
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Re: I was viciously attacked in two skeptics forums

Postby Craig Browning » 31 Jan 2012, 02:38

Greetings -- NaNuNaNu. . . :mrgreen:

Ok, ignoring my silliness. . . yes, I believe in ET and all his buddies. I don't believe there is a reptilian conspiracy or 99% of the other tall tales people love to present the world, tying UFOs in with the Illuminati, Satan and of course the 9/11 Conspiracies (ET helped the CIA bring down the towers).

I believe it is possible for these beings to bend time & space in order to do the whole space exploration thing and that they most likely have some sort of "do not interfere" order that is help to more than not; but hey, we can't find any evolution to the micro-chip, it just suddenly happened it would seem :roll:

The other hypothesis when it comes to "Alien Life" is that of either Time Travel or "Skipped Dimensions" -- that is to say beings that live in a parallel dimension have learned how to move between their world and ours. We occupy the same space & time but their vibratory rate is higher than ours and so we pass through one another and know alternative realities. All of which begs the question as to which theory is correct in that all three seem to defy our current ability to understand; especially when you start including the ancient tapestry from around the world that has our ancestors in communication with these ET types, certain primitive cultures like the Dogman tribe in Africa, having cave carvings that reveal the movement of the planets and the accurate prediction of planetary movement/galactic events that NASA has only recently learned of. . . if that don't place Rod Serling's voice in your head what will?

I've not kept up with the UFO sub-culture, it was a thing I was enthused with during the 70's but kind of grew out of as I hit my 20's and moved out of my parent's home :lol:

The thing is, talking about having an Alien encounter is akin to calling yourself Psychic in today's "academic" world; you will be seen as a fool and harshly looked down on as someone that's gullible as well as delusional. We are frequently listed as "nut jobs" and "cranks" by those egos out there that rely on a very limited and "structured" way of viewing things; it's not really their fault, they were literally born that way -- left brain dependent vs. a balance of right & left perspectives. The irony is that many who fit into the psychic or abducted categories are far more right brained in how they view life and thus, the analytical tends to leave them dumbfounded and lost. . . again, it is due to a lack of balance within the mind and how we process things.

If you have in fact had an encounter and have tangible proof, then you need to get it documented by a sympathetic but reputable (respected) medical examiner. You must gain as much documentation and physical material as you can possible get your hands on that support your claim. I know how maddening that can be, but it's what "they" require. You also need to understand that "they" will always change the requisites once you've met the first list of requirements they need to satisfy their curiosity and "accept" your testimony of events. Again, I can empathize but it's how the game is played and we must persevere based on our personal truth -- what we know first hand.

HOWEVER, and this is very important. . . we need to be willing to be willing to reconsider our experiences as well. We must be willing to let the light shine on what we believe happened and consider the alternative prior to becoming totally rigid and unyielding. Sometimes what we believe stems from misunderstanding of the information & circumstances and how our mind twists such things into symbols we can't translate accurately. We may not like it, but this is a fact that we must allow room for, less we come off as arrogant and rife with denial as our critics.
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Re: I was viciously attacked in two skeptics forums

Postby ProfWag » 31 Jan 2012, 05:16

Craig Browning wrote:You must gain as much documentation and physical material as you can possible get your hands on that support your claim. I know how maddening that can be, but it's what "they" require.

Craig,
Who are the "they" you are referring too? Do you not include yourself in wanting documentation and physical material? Or, are you completely comfortable that one of earth's greatest mysteries is now solved simply because August said so?
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Re: I was viciously attacked in two skeptics forums

Postby August West » 31 Jan 2012, 07:04

It's funny, what Craig is saying echoes what a lot of people say, "you need to prove it! Get documentation! Get an alien-friendly medical examiner!" "They" require it! It's how the game is played! You must satisfy their curiosity!"

I guess I'm not interested in playing games, then, especially with people who move the goalpost, cherry-pick what is acceptable evidence and what isn't. People like those I encountered in the skeptic forums are simply unable or unwilling to learn anything that will change their worldview. They never even seriously consider what I say as being true, and there is no evidence to convince them short of an actual experience of their own.

I share what I know, those who choose to reject my information are welcome to do so, they can remain unaware of what is happening as far as I'm concerned. There will always be those who simply cannot incorporate these aliens into their reality, barring open invasion, and even then many will choose to believe it is a man-made hoax.

It's a good thing that everyone Paul Revere warned didn't insist he provide physical evidence the British were coming.
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Re: I was viciously attacked in two skeptics forums

Postby Arouet » 31 Jan 2012, 09:24

August West wrote:let's see here... thanks for your reply of course, but knowing as fact that aliens are here and abducting people is in no way a subset of thinking or believing that they are. If anything, 1 and 2 are more closely related, as they are beliefs and speculation, conclusions drawn from somewhat limited information, the only difference being that one group finds the information they have been exposed to is sufficiently compelling or convincing, and the other group feels the opposite. Both positions 1 and 2 are basically guesses. The difference between guessing, correctly or incorrectly, and knowing, is vast. I suppose I did leave out a category of people who are still up in the air and undecided, but I hope my point was clear.


Well, technically if someone knows something they also very likely believe it, but I phrased it poorly. The problem is the scale: belief and knowledge are on two different continuums so should not be on the same list. That was the point I rather failed to deliver!

As far as your position, it's one I hear quite often, "It's too far!" and "the speed of light is the rule!"

\To impose upon alien cultures our current scientific limitations is folly. Humans advanced from horseback to the moon in the span of a single century. It is impossible to imagine the technological achievements of an advanced race of beings with, say, a million years head start on us. Or a billion years.


Sure, it may be possible to go many times faster than the speed of light, but we have no reason to believe currently That could change of course. Remember: my position is not that it is impossible, but that it is unlikely.

Not to mention the fact that the speed of light doesn't even seem to be a sacred limit to even us humans these days, with scientists claiming success in sending photons inbedded with information faster than the speed of light, in just the past couple of years. If it isn't a hard limit for us, why claim it would it be for a far more highly scientifically advanced culture?


Right, but then you have to figure out had to get more than a photon to go that fast. Not just that fast but orders of magnitude faster.

Then you say it is hard to believe that their 'spaceships' could come to Earth and be 'virtually undetectable'. Just this week it was reported that researchers at the University of Texas in Austin have succeeded in cloaking an object by exposing that object, covered in plasmonic meta-materials, to microwaves. The effect was invisibility from all angles of view. So again, if we are developing this technology, why would it be far-fetched to expect the same of an alien culture with a much more advanced level of technology?


How would the aliens know about our vision biology and how to cloak specifically for the way our eyes process light. Who knows how they process the world around them? Again, would I say it's impossible? no, but unlikely.

Although I'm not certain why you describe the aliens ships as 'virtually undetectable', these ships are regularly seen clearly with the human eye, and have been captured by the most rudimentary cameras, from brownies to Polaroids. Their moving images have been caught by tech as low as super 8 reel-to-reel, as well as more advanced imaging such as radar and infra-red.


That's why I said "virtually": you have to accept that they are not completely invisible but show themselves for brief periods, then cloak up again. Seems strange.
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Re: I was viciously attacked in two skeptics forums

Postby August West » 31 Jan 2012, 12:38

Arouet, you don't raise any new points in this last post, I addressed each of these points already, so there's nothing here for me to respond to, other than to say that most of your issues are probably moot. I have no reason to believe that the aliens I have encountered have either cloaking or faster-than-light travel. I have never seen them demonstrate either technology.

Basically, my story is this: I and my family have been sought out by aliens throughout the early years of our lives. The aliens have come into our homes, at least three different houses, they take us aboard their various ships for procedures, sometimes taking us to a large base. The first encounter I was old enough to remember took place in 1968, my mother was taken when she was a young girl in the 1950s, my brother have been taken as recently as 1997. Rather than write a book here, I would welcome any questions regarding our experiences, it may be easier than recounting this stuff ad infinitum.

I welcome any interest, thanks.
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Re: I was viciously attacked in two skeptics forums

Postby ProfWag » 31 Jan 2012, 22:06

August West wrote:It's funny, what Craig is saying echoes what a lot of people say, "you need to prove it! Get documentation! Get an alien-friendly medical examiner!" "They" require it! It's how the game is played! You must satisfy their curiosity!"

Wellllll, yes, you should at least have some sort of evidence. Your claims are quite extraordinary and if true, would change the face of the world as we know it. Unfortunately, on internet forums such as this and the ones you've mentioned, all we have is your word unless you provide something. So yes, I would like to see something more along the lines of what evidence you have. I could tell you from now until the cows come home that I am actually a Sasquatch who has learned how to use a computer and type, but I'm not sure you would believe me without some sort of evidence, would you?
August West wrote:I guess I'm not interested in playing games, then, especially with people who move the goalpost, cherry-pick what is acceptable evidence and what isn't. People like those I encountered in the skeptic forums are simply unable or unwilling to learn anything that will change their worldview. They never even seriously consider what I say as being true, and there is no evidence to convince them short of an actual experience of their own.

I can also assure you that although I don't know what you went through on the other forums (as previously mentioned, I couldn't find your posts on those forums), I know for a fact that Arouet and myself (and others) don't want to play games. But as of yet, you haven't provided any evidence so there isn't anything to cherry-pick--at least not yet.
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Re: I was viciously attacked in two skeptics forums

Postby ProfWag » 31 Jan 2012, 22:21

August West wrote:Arouet, you don't raise any new points in this last post, I addressed each of these points already, so there's nothing here for me to respond to, other than to say that most of your issues are probably moot. I have no reason to believe that the aliens I have encountered have either cloaking or faster-than-light travel. I have never seen them demonstrate either technology.

Basically, my story is this: I and my family have been sought out by aliens throughout the early years of our lives. The aliens have come into our homes, at least three different houses, they take us aboard their various ships for procedures, sometimes taking us to a large base. The first encounter I was old enough to remember took place in 1968, my mother was taken when she was a young girl in the 1950s, my brother have been taken as recently as 1997. Rather than write a book here, I would welcome any questions regarding our experiences, it may be easier than recounting this stuff ad infinitum.

I welcome any interest, thanks.

Okay, here we go:
Have all 3 of you ever been taken at the same time?
Are you awake/aware of the encounter during the abduction?
Any idea where this large base is? (i.e. planet, larger ship, etc.)
What do they look like?
Do you have any physical scars from these encounters?
While abducted, are there any family members left in the house and if so, did they witness anything?
What was the weather like during these abductions?
Were the houses where the abductions took place rural or urban?
Any communication take place? Friend, foe, or strictly business?
Okay, that should get us started...
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Re: I was viciously attacked in two skeptics forums

Postby August West » 01 Feb 2012, 03:53

At last, some questions!
1. I have two brothers, the four of us have been taken at the same time. On another occassion, it was my mom, dad, and younger brother without me, sometimes it was just me, sometimes, just my brother, or brothers. Like any family, though, we usually aren't all in the same place at the same time, except for bedtime, and most of our experiences were in the day or evening.

2. Yes, awake and aware.

3. Where the base was, I can't say, but it was seemingly underground; the walls were still rough-hewn rock in many areas, analthough the floors were mirror smooth, it gave the impression of being tunneled out. Rounded corridors, all curved, never straight, opened up into bigger cavernous areas. At the same time, it was extremely well-lit with a diffuse light source, white light, not yellow, and the place was as clean as a hospital, not a speck of dirt or dust. The stone walls were whitish grey, some a very dark grey, but none of the brown, black, and red colors you see in our rocks. No earth tones, so to speak. For all I know, it could have been the moon. Or maybe New Jersey, I'm no geologist. There was also a small river of water that ran through the main area I saw, the area which we arrived and departed from.

I will answer you other questions shortly, thanks.
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Re: I was viciously attacked in two skeptics forums

Postby August West » 01 Feb 2012, 09:58

4. I have seen several distinct types of aliens. One, the shorter 'greys' who were actually more like a tan color, leathery, wrinkly shin, kind of like the skin on a turtle's head and neck. Two, the tall 'grey', who are actually a milky white color like the belly of a fish. They were seven feet tall, impossibly thin limbs and neck, smooth face, almost insect-like. They wore robes while the short greys wore more of a military outfit, some even had an insignia. They tall greys were clearly in charge, the short greys did the piloting of the ship, and they carried the weapons/instruments on occasion. The tall greys were better at mental manipulation, it seemed to me.

6. my brothers both have small scoop mark or biopsy punch that have never gone away, one brother on the shoulder, the other on his face. I do not seem to bear physical scars.

7. Yes, sometimes, but not often. I remember once they left my dad sleeping, and took my mom from the other side of the bed. Once they brought my brother back from a daytime abduction while we were having a backyard picnic, several of us watched the ship clearly, in broad daylight.

8. good question, I had to think about this one. Usually the weather is great, clear skies, no rain. I never had an encounter in the rain, now that you mention it. However, at least once they brought us back and it was snowing ( it was not snowing when we left, but there was snow on the ground ).

9.One house was close to downtown, in a small city of 20,000, the other two homes move of a typical sub.urban development, perhaps 1/4 -1/2 acre lots. Definitely neighbors around us.

10. This is much harder to answer briefly, yes, communication, but they are very tight-lipped with revealing information of any substance. They reveal more about themselves accidentally than they will tell you directly. They are pretty unconcerned that we overhear what they say to each other. When they speak to you directly, it's often similar to the way one of us would speak to an autistic child. Or worse, the way a veterinarian talks to the animal he's treating. But as they get to know you, they begin to treat you as an individual. Sometimes they teach you things.
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Re: I was viciously attacked in two skeptics forums

Postby August West » 01 Feb 2012, 10:22

Let me add, before anyone tries to make hay by asking what language the aliens speak, when I say the aliens "tell" or "say" things, they do not speak vocally, they speak mentally, and you can hear it in your head, and it is a strange sensation indeed, it could take me hours to describe what that is like. Just one quick example, you don't receive the information in exact words; if they 'say' "remain calm", you feel it, but it could also be "do not panic" or "please remain where you are" or "do not scream loudly please" Or it could be they intended ALL of those polite commands in that one burst of communication. At the same time you do hear a 'voice', to me it was similar to the electric monotone that Steven Hawkings uses. But different, ephemeral, yet precise and in English, to me.
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