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UFO debate now on at JREF

Discussion about UFO's, Aliens, ET's, Alien Abductions, Ancient Astronaut theories, etc.

UFO debate now on at JREF

Postby jakesteele » 12 Jun 2009, 19:16

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=145251

I need your help. I have replied to post 12 on the JREF forum that will kick up a shit storm. The name of the thread is: "UFOs: a possible explanation", posts 12 and 13 and I will undoubtedly get ratpacked by 4 to 8 different people. If you want to, come and we'll try to even the odds.

Here's the post I am replying to and then POST NUMBER 12, and then my response, POST NUMBER 13 to POST NUMBER 12:



POST NUMBER 1
UFO'S: A possible explanation
While skeptics do not attribute the alien explanation to ufo's, do they ever consider, or even praise explanations such as: Plasma Vortex's, Ball Lightning, Sprites, etc?



POST NUMBER 12 by KITTYNH - I will say that Phillip Klass did include some interesting explainations for UFOs. His electrical line theory is still debated. Ball lightening is rare, but I think if it's real it is usually just seen as whacky lightening.

THere are so many variables for UFOs. Most people are unfamiliar with what the night sky looks like. Rarely do amatuer astronomers see UFOs that they go "oh aliens!" Think of the thousands and thousands of amateur astronomers out there. Heck anyone can buy a telescope.

I always tell people that see UFOs a lot to join the local amateur astronomy club. Most towns have one. If you go out on a clear night and just really LOOK for 20 minutes you'll usually see something that makes you go "ok WHAT is THAT".

ALso big jump from UFO to alien traveller from outerspace. That's the problem. Aliens hyperjumping through worm holes to reach us hasn't been proven anymore than unicorns. Could by flying unicorns in those things (there is much historical evidence for unicorns as opposed to say aliens).

People that know the sky, don't see aliens flying around.

__________________




MY REPLY, POST 13
There have been many examples of pilots at all levels of skill and experience that have reported seeing UFOs. Also, there are planes of some sort in the air 24/7 that are flying at or near the approximate heights that UFOs do. They also have a much wider field of vision than astronomers do. But to you their word seems to mean nothing. But at the same time you will accept anecdotal evidence from amateur astronomers as being golden, as in the Phoenix Lights situation.

Here’s what I find ironic; if an amateur astronomer came to you and said they had seen a UFO, you would immediately go into the debunking mode and say something to this effect, “Well, he is an amateur after all. He can only look to the heavens for 8 hrs. max out of the day. And odds are high they haven’t received training in aircraft silhouette identification, etc.“ That’s a double standard. It’s like you’re making up two different sets of rules that benefit you and not the other guy. Here are the typical rationalizations that a CSIOPtic will give for UFO sightings:

1. ATMOSPHERIC PHENOMENON

2. BALL LIGHTNING

3. SWAMP GAS

4. METEORS

5. MASS HALLUCINATION:

6. HOAX

7. WEATHER BALLOONS

8. FLARES (the new weather balloons)

9. FLOCK OF BIRDS

10. LIE

11. (anything I might have missed)

I always get a chuckle out of the James Randi style of debunking when it comes to UFOs (or anything, for that matter). You will never hear them say that it could also be a ‘for real’ alien UFO. It’s like trying to pull the eye teeth out of an angry gorilla’s mouth. A truly objective skeptic will say, “And, yes, folks, we can’t rule out the possibility that it was of alien origin.”

In other words, the simplest explanation is not always the best.
Debunkers think all UFO photos are fake,
especially the real ones.
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Re: UFO debate now on at JREF

Postby Scepcop » 12 Jun 2009, 22:58

I'm banned at JREF over a misunderstanding long ago (which they aren't open minded enough to discuss, as usual), so I can't help you debate there.

But you can show them Indigo Child's excellent exposition about their fallacies regarding UFO's at:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27

I think it's a waste of time debating them anyway. They don't care about the truth and are not objective at all.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: UFO debate now on at JREF

Postby The Professor » 02 Aug 2009, 13:55

I am also banned even though my niece is a NASA Scientist and the insights relayed would destroy the closed minded skeptic hiding there!
I would help if I could !!!!!
But the so called skeptics won't allow it. (Since I've pointed to the Blackmail Taps)
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSED TO TEST FOR A MILLION DOLLARS
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Re: UFO debate now on at JREF

Postby Azrael » 03 Aug 2009, 06:18

The Professor wrote:I am also banned even though my niece is a NASA Scientist and the insights relayed would destroy the closed minded skeptic hiding there!
I would help if I could !!!!!
But the so called skeptics won't allow it. (Since I've pointed to the Blackmail Taps)


Oh boy,do you belive in every woo subject?! Posts these insights on this forum then from your Niece,nothing stoppping you. Having a Niece as NASA scientist is funny though. Just think when she dies you can talk to her via EVP too!

Scepcop:
think it's a waste of time debating them anyway. They don't care about the truth and are not objective at all.


Translated as "I have no evidence cannot understand why they don't believe me!" :P
I'm always very skeptical of any situation where someone's notability hinges on their connection to another notable person
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