Discussions about Psychics and Psychic Phenomena, Extra Sensory Perception, Telepathy, Psi, Clairvoyancy, 6th Sense, Psychokinesis, etc.
I was going over the dates here to check things out.
Dec 10 2008 - reported missing
Dec 13 2008 - first reported use of a sonar device in the river
Mar 19 2009 - found floating in river
The known river search was done 3 days after going missing. It is possible river searches were done before that time. Nothing to tell us one way or the other, but the river was definitely an important search area from the start.
Scimitars were not available - beware January 19, 2038 is upon us.
I was searching for information on missing persons and drownings when I came across this article which I thought was interesting.
The article is about experiences in which the company deals with the application of their technology to finding people that have drowned.
My search was about the statistics of missing people and the locations where they are found. I wanted to know that if there was a body of water nearby, how often is drowning found to be the reason for the disappearance?
Scimitars were not available - beware January 19, 2038 is upon us.
I think you need to double check your facts here... it was Ben Harris that backed out and according to what I've been told, didn't actually have the cash to put up for the challenge. Jim has likewise offered Ben alternative challenges and even had the audacity to challenge Randi at one point. He likewise put forth a challenge for Criss Angel @ the MindVention gathering during his lecture.
glady - just follow the online poject posted on the farsight website and you can follow the next rv project for the next year if you wish.
This will be me and at least 8 other remote viewers.
Are yuu calling me a liar.
I already provided a statment form the police chief involved in the case - are you saying he was lying to us?
Alas yet you show yourself be another peron who fills in the blanks with their own ego and stupidity.
As I have already stated but I will do so again just to make it clear to you. My RV work IS BLIND.
I have NO information upfront. In the cases of the missing perosn projects I do know the target is a missing person - but this is the only info I get until I hand over a report.
Therefore I didn't know it was a man, didn't know his mental condition, didn't know where in the world the case was. Yet I provide a report about a dead
male, in cold/water, had a mental condition, etc, etc, etc
Yet you in your high position would rather take the great and as we all know (highly accurate) evidence of articles in the press over the actual statement of the Police Chief in charge of the case as to whether we helped on not - he clearly stated that they searched an area we told them to and they then found the body.? We work with the police on their request ONLY, when they have no other place to go - he tasked us, we gave him gps coordinates and description - he searched there and they found the body????
lol it beggars belief how you need to find wriggle room out of this.
it matters not - the rv case i did on this was blind (no information upfront only a random number to work on/foucs upon) - so if i then describe a dead man in water then its all good as I had no information upfornt - didnt even know what part ot the world the case was in, if it wer male, female or child... your reaching...
Ive done over 60 cases in two years and water isnt that common - in fact the range of missing person cases are so different form children to OAP's to murdered to just ran away, from Ireland to all over the U.S.
We only work when requested by the police, and for free, we provide GPS coordinates, sketches, and descriptions and more. The head of the group that organises this is an ex DEA agent.
All the best...
Last edited by dazsmith on 13 Mar 2010, 23:25, edited 1 time in total.
So I post facts taken from reports of the event and then you are saying facts don't matter? This sounds like you are saying that what you did trumps reality.
You keep repeating that you work BLIND. No need to repeat or shout since we can read. That's a condition we expect. This appears to me to be a red herring. Why distract with this issue when all I did was list some facts.
Interestingly enough you do not dispute that there is a mix up in the cases. Can you verify for us that the linked to articles do in fact describe the case you are referring to?
Scimitars were not available - beware January 19, 2038 is upon us.
No the facts are the statement to us from the police chief in charge:
what articles - if you post the links I will take a looksie but if they detail shawn fowler then probably so.
All i can offer is this - the police asked us for a gps for this missing person we did - they then find the body within 100ft of this gps - now I think thats a success.
Last edited by dazsmith on 13 Mar 2010, 23:42, edited 1 time in total.
NO! I am not calling you a liar. You probably do actually believe that the body was found "due to" your help as you stated. However, the facts remain that if you or anyone else in your psychic group had not provided the information you did, the body would still have been found. Not by you, but by the fisherman who actually DID find the body. Was the fisherman a part of your team?
Reminder, here is what you said the Police Chief said (italics mine): "Part of the information we concentrated on was the area around a submerged tree as predicted by one of your Team Members. " The Police Chief DOES NOT say anything like "thanks to your efforts, we found the body." or "the body would not have been found if not for your inputs." There is a huge, huge difference. Within 100 feet is pretty good, but we just don't know what informaton was provided to the psychic in advance, unfortunately.
To paraphrase the Chief, one of your team members predicted you would find the body around a submerged tree in the river. None of your team members actually found the body as you were making us believe. How many team members participated in the search? Let's say there were five. If 1 out of 5 predicted you would find the body in a rever next to a submerged tree, then that means that 4 out of 5 of your team members were wrong. And for one out of 5 people to predict that a missing body would be found submerged in a river, well, that's hardly paranormal now, is it? You can say all you wish about how close your coordinates were, how you went into the search "blind," or whatever, but since your oriiginal statement was not completely factual, then we must also question the rest of your story. Again, I'm not saying you lied about anything, but there IS a "rest of the story."
OK I understand your comments now so lets try to address these.
It was my impression form the manager and the email that it was due to our help. I will enquire and see if i cna get clarification for you on this form the police chief - but to be honest its rare we get any kind of feedback/dialogue - but I will enquire for a further or deeper comment.
Well I dont know how every member of the team works so I cant answer for them as I dont know them ( im UK based most are US) I can only present what I have/know.
well this is a point of view and now you've explained it i do see yours - but it was my belief from what was communicated with me that the body was found where we told them to look - but again I will try to get an expanded comment of this to clarify for both of us.
I do not and never have tried to mislead anyone - its why i post my rv in public for all to see and why out of my own pocket i pay for and create the rv magazine. I do 99% of my rv work for free and this does take-up alot of my time and this is mainly for the police services as a requested and not for families or anyone else connected. You cna see a brief outline of another recent case i worked in the latest 8M magazine - I was out by miles but I did name the correct road and description of the missing man and his demise and location. Rv isnt the best tool for finding things as we cna only describe locations and events and cannot very easily name them - its like a work in progress Im trying to find ways to adapt what I do as a remoet viewer to give the police the info they need.
If we can keep things congenial then I'm more than happy to try to show you how and what we do as remote viewers. Its not perfect but it does work sometimes.
All the best..
I sincerely desire for things such as RV, psychics, etc. to be a valid method of solving crimes. My research has led me to believe, however, that this has never happened, at least in recent, verifiable history. I've read of several instances where a psychic may have been fairly accurate in where a body was found, but I have yet to find a case where the case would not have been solved without the use of a psychic. My feeling is that psychics do much, much, much more harm than good. Why do I say that? Take the case of Caycee Anthony (murdered child in Orlando). There were well over 300 psychics who volunteered their services and provided tips as to where/what/who. The police had to look into every one of those tips. It appears that 1 MAY have been accurate, but the details of that are sketchy at best and the truth of that tip has yet to be completely brought into the public's knowledge. But essentially, the police wasted thousands and thousands of dollars and hours and hours of manpower going on a wild goose chase. As such, I am searching for that one verifiable case that a crime was solved because of a psychic. When you said you had one, I became excited only to subsequently become disappointed in that it was just an example of another case where a psychic's use was not needed in solving the disappearance/crime. (Okay, maybe deep down I wasn't that excited as I had already figured that would be the story.) In this case, the bottom line is that a man out fishing found a dead body, not a psychic. Sorry, but I'm just being honest.
I might add that I don't know you and your intentions might very welll be honest and sincere. I do know that some aren't so honest and sincere.
I just spoke to the manager of the group and he stated:
I will update you more when I get more from the police chief form the case next week.
In most cases I would agree with you. Not in the case of our group. We ONLY work with police and at their request when they have nowhere else to go. The know that its not 100% accurate, but that it MAY help them generate new leads and angles. We never charge and would never work with families or harass anyone with knowledge unless it was requested. As I said the group is run by an EX DEA agent and all above board - we even have tracker dogs and resources to help out in cases. As I aisd when the police are stumped and have nowhere else to go - then why not - it just might work - and in some cases it does. But I wouldnt hold my breath to see a case fully solved by psi - it should never be this way - IMO.
I cant fully answer for psychics because what I do 'remote viewing' isnt psychic - i have rules and protocols. But to be honest I dont see any psi skill being the sole cause of solving a crime. We always state to all contacts and clients that remote viewing isnt 100% accurate - a good remote viewer is only accurate 50-70% of the time and then never always fully accurate - there is always some 'noise' in the data - always. RV and I would hope other psi skills should ONLY be used with other intel methods and not instead of - i would never wish t see this.
LOL I understand and believe me Ive spent my life involved in psi work. I initially trained in mediumship and clairvoyance, tarot, healing and divination. I found all these lacking but found credibility and professionalism and accuracy in remote viewing - so I dropped all the other techniques and have spent the last 13 yrs becoming good at RV. I now believe that 90% of psychics are probably self deluding (possibly in some cases without knowing) and most are cold reading. I have little respect for anyone who doesn't work BLIND. Its also why Im not a psychic - Im a remote viewer and i work within a structure and rules.
lets see what and how the police chief expands his comments early next week and see but im assured the police chief was in one of the boats that found the missing person and that it was the police - hang in there and I will confirm more asap. As I said Im not trying to fool anyone.
I appreciate your honesty and I'll be interested in the Chief's words as well.
I realize it's not fair to those that may have actual paranormal abilities (psychics, RVers, etc.), but my distaste in that practice all started with me watching Montel and Sylvia told the parents of Shawn Hornbeck that he was dead when he was found very much alive a few months later. I just found that so incredibly inhumane that I now spend far too much time weeding out the bull crap. Please don't take it personally. As I've said before, many people involved in what I consider paranormal (everyone from astrologers and tarot readers to psychics and mediums) actually believe that what they are doing is helpful or "real." I just haven't reached that same conclusiion. Yet.
I understand that RV, psychics, clarvoiants, etc. are all different and each individual uses their own methods, but if I refer to an RV as psychic, please know that I'm just lumping them all together into a group that I consider to be paranormal abilities in an effort to save time. I like your term "psi skill" though so perhaps I'll start using that more as it does kind of lump them all together.
I'm curious as to why you don't see any psi skill being the sole cause of solving a crime. If you can see something, then I would think that one should be aable to go to a location to get a better idea of what they are "seeing." From my standpoint, if you could go to a location and say "the body is right there," that would be helpful. Anything other than that is not helpful. Just my point of view anyway.
For some reason the style by which Daz loves to "contend" things seems very Deja Vu... but as I've pointed out before EVERY SINGLE SKEPTIC/CYNIC uses the same nit-pick tactics along side the "I can pee higher on the tree than you can" attitude. No matter what solid documentation you hand them, they refuse to accept it and constantly look for a way out... a way to avoid accepting that there may be things "out there" greater than we mere mortals and our arrogant intellect.
On another forum this pattern of "The police chief says this" while the believer and pointing out related truths filled up over a dozen pages of forum space and ultimately created a rift within the group. The cynics (two in particular) had to prove (on most any topic) that theirs was always bigger and the better and thus, never yield to, or even remotely consider an alternative perspective... it's much akin to those fanatical Veegans or born again zealots for Jeezzus that insist on cramming their beliefs down the throats of all of us who simply don't give a damn; Evangelism being a spirit prejudice to none when it comes to the path of fanaticism... as well as the outward expression of personal anger... False Evidence Appearing Real.
What I'm saying is, we don't need another 12 page ping-pong game do we?
We don't need to see rhetoric and banter taking away from the rather comfortable sense of exchange this forum seems to have... at least that's what I've felt since showing up here a few weeks back... or, is that part of some knew agenda?
There is a HUGE difference between Intelligence and Wisdom; the latter is when one couples the lessons of life along side intellect, common sense and what some might call the "soul's voice"... that distant essence of each of us that so often gets shoved under the nearest convenient carpets during our younger days. Nonetheless, Wisdom can become our reality and when it does it is composed of all these things and then some. It is knowledge coupled with experience and nurtured by way of spirit... "enlightenment" -- not so much the New Age idea of "Enlightenment" as the Buddhist or Gnostic point of view in which one becomes "aware" and capable of understanding all things as they are from all points of view.
Living one's life based on nothing other than dry "facts" and "numbers" is to but exist, not live. But similarly, to blind one's self by not paying attention to what the analysts say and what the data supports, is to be just as blind and incomplete. The answer will always be found when you merge these two frames of view into one. This is the purpose of debate, not creating greater tension or to beat the other down for sake of ego-based superiority.
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