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The Skeptic Damping Effect

Discussions about Psychics and Psychic Phenomena, Extra Sensory Perception, Telepathy, Psi, Clairvoyancy, 6th Sense, Psychokinesis, etc.

The Skeptic Damping Effect

Postby Kevin Kane » 08 Feb 2010, 18:28

Many people I've spoken with who identify as psychic or paranormal, have noted the mere presence of skeptical thinkers or general doubtful, harmful or negative thought, even without being openly identified or expressed, causes the psychic/paranormal effect to be inhibited, dampened, thrown off, or to fail all together. Like a cold shower, a sort of 'skeptic killjoy effect' which almost always produces negative results.

The idea is that those who are sensitive to the thoughts or feelings of observers, through unknown processes .. telepathy, aura energy, or what have you, pick up on the 'vibes' of the observer and produce a result in accordance with the thoughts and feelings of the observers. If the observers are "believers", or are fair and open-minded, the results are more likely to be positive. If the observers are more skeptical or pessimistic, the results reflect doubt/pessimism in return.


I'd like to ask readers, what are your thoughts, feelings or experiences regarding this? Is it a valid phenomena?



------------------------

My opinion is that the 'Observer Effect' does affect the outcome of a living, interactive process. Resonating and amplifying whatever the observer brings to the table.
If the observer brings 'yes' .. it becomes: YES.
If the observer brings 'no' .. it comes: NO.
If the observer brings 'maybe' .. it becomes: MAYBE.
And if the observer brings .. "hey, I'm as open-minded as the next guy, but I need proof" .. the results become:
HEY, I'M A CLUELESS ASSHOLE AND I DEMAND THAT THE UNIVERSE PROVE ITSELF TO ME!

.... which never works.
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Re: The Skeptic Damping Effect

Postby ciscop » 09 Feb 2010, 02:33

look for the ¨sheep¨ and ¨goat¨ effect
:D
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: The Skeptic Damping Effect

Postby Craig Browning » 21 Feb 2010, 21:48

Let me preface what I'm saying here by reminding folks that I am a professional Reader and Psychic Entertainer. I'm also fairly well established as a writer in that world so when I say these things it should take on a significant meaning for folks...

My point being that the majority of "Psychics" that make such statements are leaning on a very old and well worn crutch... an "out" as we call it in the trade, in which blame for failure is placed on some kind of outside interference; the most convenient scapegoat being someone in the group that shows a kind of coldness, disinterest, aloofness, etc. Any "Psychic" worth their weight can spot this sort fairly easy and probably have singled out at least one such individual early on, before anything is started when it comes to a group's' work. This way they can empathically pick up on that one bad apple, then manipulate them into confessing their skepticism or annoyance of things. The end result being that the group turns on their friend and gives sympathy to the psychic who, even though they missed and had difficulties, gets a bigger tip at the end of the night as a kind of apology from participants, for their friends' bad behavior (even though they may not have acted out in the least... they were just a "drawing influence").

I know this sounds very crass and unforgiving but it is an establish ruse used by con-men that play the Psychic angle. I've seen it done far too many times and actually depended upon it in a few investigations, because it tends to be one of the best chinks in a fraud's armor.

Yes, there are times when a Psychic can legitimately make this claim BUT, in those situations a legitimately gifted Psychic should know what to do to get grounded, cleared and able to move back in on whatever the focus is about. While there are other "interference" elements that can come into play and still bring about blocks, it is something that requires deeper investigation AT THAT MOMENT.

Why do I say this? you ask.

Most distractions (Invasions as some call them) exist because the time is ripe for dealing with them; it is something that demands the Psychic and oft times the group as a whole, to change their planned agenda in order to tend to something that's more present and in need of address. The gods know I've spent some long nights working on cases like this; they can be quite wearing but ultimately, bring about a stronger sense of personal success.

Hope this perspective helps ;)
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Re: The Skeptic Damping Effect

Postby Kevin Kane » 21 Feb 2010, 23:45

I respect your opinion and your point of view, but ultimately, the skeptic exists to ask questions for the purposes of creating doubt. Not to neutrally judge or seriously investigate, as we've seen time and again, but assuming a position of show me, prove it to me, which is not investigation and not the way science works. The intention is key. Often we've seen deliberate misleading in the portrayal of what paranormals are doing, in the mis-labeling, misinterpreting and misdirection. A skill that magicians are good at.

By describing it merely as an "out", is to assume that skeptical thought has a way "in". Seeing it in a more elemental form such as chemistry. The paranormal element or molecule has certain properties. The skeptic element or molecule has other properties. When combnined, they neutralize or the skeptic element inhibits the properties of the paranormal.

IMO, skeptics will never know or experience the paranormal, because they've choosen not to, are determined not to, or are of a certain element that wasn't meant to. What paranormal people feel or experience, is normal for them, but doesn't work when the element of doubt is addded to the equation.

Which probably explains why this forum has more skeptic activity then paranormal activity. Pnormals are wise to avoid skeptics.
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Re: The Skeptic Damping Effect

Postby Craig Browning » 23 Feb 2010, 01:19

Kevin I'm not certain where you're coming from with your point... it reminds me of a lawyer trying to use double-speak.

My post sustains the fact that many (especially frauds) use the whole "there's an unbeliever amongst us" angle as their explanation for failure or lack of accuracy. I likewise attempted to point out how those who are legit in their claims of Psychic ability, upon discerning a similar "challenge" within the group, recognize that a greater issue may be afoot and the thing they were originally there to look at has less import at the moment. Too, I attempted to point out how other "energies" can detour the legit practitioner, leading them to focus (willingly or otherwise) on alternative issues.

When I do Readings I can go on auto-pilot for 99.9% of them and simply "read" what the cards or whatever I'm using, says. It's purely intellectual and has no boogieman or fuzziness around it. But then I have those rare situations in which I find myself totally throw off by "unexplainable" feelings and sometimes even smells or "visions" (flashes of images) all of which prove to be more important when it comes to the client's unspoken needs, than what a Reading might reveal. I can assure you that such instances (though rare) are both, uncomfortable and amazing at the same time... they are likewise the sort of thing that prevents me from committing to the idea of being a complete Skeptic/Cynic.

As a skeptic it is my job to look at these scenarios as well as how similar things happen with other Readers for the sake of understanding; be it to find a more rational explanation behind them or to discover and learn more about the "mystical" side to things. As SKEPTIC this is my obligation and what separates me from the ardent CYNIC who wants to constantly blast away and tear apart such things; Cynics are NEVER content with any explanation that may allow room for a paranormal or PSI explanation even if a three ton demon were in the room beating the crap out of them... that would just be a misunderstood coincidence (one of their favorite "Scientific" explanations).

I've yet to meet anyone, including those with exceptionally high "Photographic" memories, that can view a two hour feature film such as AVATAR... something that intense that they've never seen or heard about and yet, they see the whole thing in under two second's time... yet they cannot give you 100% accurate details about what they saw and to add to their lack of credibility, (given this example) they would be referring to ten foot tall blue people that fly on some sort of dinosaur looking bird... How could you possibly translate the overload of images and feelings, expressing them in a way that would allow an concise understanding when it comes to the "vision's" message?

A "Psychic Flash" is very similar to this kind of thing as are most vivid dreams in which a prophetic element seems to be a part, whether it's a common dream experience or part of a shamanic styled ritual. The cynically minded expecting "us" (psychics) to deliver a quality of feedback that our own detractors cannot possibly meet given comparable parameters. But then we also have those studies tied to the inaccuracy of the "eye witness" that must likewise be taken into account and which likewise explain (at least in part) why certain Psychics fall short when it comes to the sequence of events, general descriptions, time line, etc. But, as I've mentioned elsewhere, we have the "Personal Metaphor" factor, something you'll see John Edward refer to from time to time based on his personal set of associations; what he sees in a flash is based on his personal symbol library and what a single white rose means vs a dozen red roses, etc.

In the late summer of 2001 many Psychics & Shaman type were having restless dreams, visions, etc. that seemed to have the same common images in them; fire in the sky, overwhelming calamity, seismic activity, fear, uncertainty, etc. most everyone kept seeing huge mountains as part of this vision. It wasn't until the morning of 9/11 most of us recognized what we were witnessing. Interestingly, I'd shared this same overview on a local (Reno, NV) radio show a month prior, stating quite directly that things would culminate in 4-6 weeks; almost to the minute 4 weeks after that interview, the first plane crashed into the first tower.

How can someone relate something that surreal... something that was essentially un-heard-of... how can you relate it as being anything other than those metaphors noted above? Even Hollywood referred to the WTC towers as man-made Mountains in the King Kong film made in the 70s, a parallel others have made when speaking of modern cities and skyscrapers.

But then we cam the cynic's favorite come-back lines... "Why didn't you tell the authorities?"

:roll: Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we have a "president" at that time who ignored what two former Presidents and his own intelligence people were telling him since day one of his taking office?

Bush is just a prime example but certainly not the only demonstration of how certain "authorities" look at what they classify as "legit" information let alone the instant prejudice most such folk have when they hear the term "Psychic".

I do know for fact that three follow-up attacks were thwarted because of Psychic tip-offs in that I was involved with those situations, but that's another issue entirely and unfortunately, something I can't get too deeply into.

:oops: I've gone a quite a way off course here so as to reveal some "logic" as to why Psychic's appear to be wrong at times, how various influences and personal limitations add to this "bend" of accuracy and how the majority of "skeptics" can't live up to their own standards when it comes to the expectations they want to see professed Psychics live up to... it's not for lack of desire or trying, just a lack of reality being put forth by the challengers.
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Re: The Skeptic Damping Effect

Postby ProfWag » 23 Feb 2010, 03:00

First, you made a comment about John Edward to appears to show you believe he actually talks to the dead. Interesting.
Second, You asked us to correct you if you were wrong about a President being warned by 2 previous presidents. I'm correcting you. That's not quite the case.
Third, is there a recording of your radio show or other psychic talk a month prior to 9/11?
Fourth, if you know for a fact about the psychics who thwarted future attacks, this could be the single most important discovery in history. You should either reveal what you know or at least give some hint as to where we can do our own research because if true, the world as we know it will change immediately.

Wag
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Re: The Skeptic Damping Effect

Postby Kevin Kane » 23 Feb 2010, 05:42

Craig Browning wrote:Kevin I'm not certain where you're coming from with your point... it reminds me of a lawyer trying to use double-speak.

My post sustains the fact that many (especially frauds) use the whole "there's an unbeliever amongst us" angle as their explanation for failure or lack of accuracy. I likewise attempted to point out how those who are legit in their claims of Psychic ability, upon discerning a similar "challenge" within the group, recognize that a greater issue may be afoot and the thing they were originally there to look at has less import at the moment. Too, I attempted to point out how other "energies" can detour the legit practitioner, leading them to focus (willingly or otherwise) on alternative issues.

I've gone a quite a way off course here so as to reveal some "logic" as to why Psychic's appear to be wrong at times, how various influences and personal limitations add to this "bend" of accuracy and how the majority of "skeptics" can't live up to their own standards when it comes to the expectations they want to see professed Psychics live up to... it's not for lack of desire or trying, just a lack of reality being put forth by the challengers.


I've bolded these terms because I think you're speaking from the position of an experienced or professional psychic "performer". The vast majority of people who are interested in, experience, "believe" in the paranormal are not. What would be their motivation in coming forward to discuss their experiences when skeptics exist to challenge them? To assure them that their experiences and feelings are invalid? Or to insult and harass them .. in effect dampen or inhibit? Not just in the context of an anonymous message board, but to challenge or insult their personal experiences, thoughts and feelings. And even in an anonymous situation, skeptics have been known to stalk or harass those who profess certain things. The experienced are better able to handle such challenges, but the inquisitive or beginner may not be able. That's where my concern is.
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Re: The Skeptic Damping Effect

Postby ProfWag » 23 Feb 2010, 06:06

Kevin, I gotta ask. Outside of the JREF forum, can you cite an example where a skeptic harassed someone who believed they saw a ghost, had a psychic vision, or experienced something paranormal. Oh, and not a cynic (they do that a lot) but a skeptic or even a "pseudoskeptic." I'm not saying they don't, but I don't see it since I'm a skeptic so I'd really like to know specifics for my own benefit. We skeptics shouldn't be in the business to harass, I feel we should be educating and harassing someone because they had a paranormal experience doesn't go very far in our education process.
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Re: The Skeptic Damping Effect

Postby Kevin Kane » 23 Feb 2010, 07:22

Dude, just yesterday I had someone stalk-search me from one place, to email me about something I said awhile back that they wanted to rebutt. They seemed like an intelligent and articulate person, but the act of finding me and and challenging me because of their presumptions about me was a bit much, I must say.
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Re: The Skeptic Damping Effect

Postby ciscop » 23 Feb 2010, 09:53

well you have the tendecy of fighting lost causes
case in point, uri geller

He is a magician
nothing more, nothing less
a great one and one of the greatest no doubt about it
but he is using sleight of hand and misdirection
if you think he is being a psychic, you are just showing how much you dont care to discuss things
you just care about what feels right for you, in this case. you dont want the Bubble of psychic powers to be destroyed by pointing out a charlatan

like i said
there´s many more interesting and darker subjects
uri geller is an entertainer and that´s that
let it go
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: The Skeptic Damping Effect

Postby Kevin Kane » 23 Feb 2010, 11:08

ciscop wrote:well you have the tendecy of fighting lost causes
case in point, uri geller

He is a magician
nothing more, nothing less
a great one and one of the greatest no doubt about it
but he is using sleight of hand and misdirection
if you think he is being a psychic, you are just showing how much you dont care to discuss things
you just care about what feels right for you, in this case. you dont want the Bubble of psychic powers to be destroyed by pointing out a charlatan

like i said
there´s many more interesting and darker subjects
uri geller is an entertainer and that´s that
let it go



An alternative cause is not a lost cause. Diversity (of thought, belief, practice) is an evolutionary asset, but skeptics are conformists and not evolving. And everything I've said about Uri is the truth. Um, you see, skeptics are presumptive assholes. They presume I say things that I don't. Stand for things that I've never stated. And when it comes to proving things, skeptics fail. And those are the facts.

Skeptics exist to fail. Skeptics fail at logic. Skeptics fail at wisdom and knowledge. Skeptics fail at facts and science. Skeptics are presumptive and annoying .. anal-rententive OCD knit-picking looneytune fruitcakes who stalk, confront, criticize for no reason, because skeptics fail at reason. The ancient Greek description of skeptics is accurate. Skeptics contribute nothing but opine. Opinionated blowhards with no substance.

For the record .. check the facts before opening your presumptive hole .. I've never said what Uri does is psychic. I've only reminded people of the facts. Uri has never been scientifically or credibly debunked. I'm not a homeopath .. don't know much about it. Don't call me religious .. I don't know if god or gods exist any more than anyone else. These are the type of false accusations and stupid assumptions I hear from skeptics all the time. It's like skeptics are incapable of logic, of reason. Skeptics are a joke.
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Re: The Skeptic Damping Effect

Postby ciscop » 23 Feb 2010, 11:41

skeptics also exist to make fun of you
:lol:

yes
uri has been debunked many times
but you still chose not to aknowladge it
what you hate most about skeptics is that we have facts while you only have beliefs
there is a difference
here is an article of a reporter catching uri cheating
http://psychicinvestigator.com/demo/GELRSKP.htm

but i guess you will still chose the most dumb statement which involves.. OK.. uri was caught cheating there but that doesnt mean he has cheated EVERY time.. . thats just so silly it is hard not to make fun of you
:lol:
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: The Skeptic Damping Effect

Postby Kevin Kane » 23 Feb 2010, 12:12

It's clear ciscop hasn't the faintest clue as to what constitutes a scientifically sound conclusion.

off topic

Let me ask you a question, ciscop. Have you ever done anything altruistic? Ever save someone's life? Ever help someone in need? Ever give a bus seat to an old lady? Ever give change to a homeless person? Because it appears to me that ciscop is NPD. My challenge for ciscop, is to say something nice to a total stranger in real life .. and do it without expecting anything in return. I dare you.
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Re: The Skeptic Damping Effect

Postby ciscop » 23 Feb 2010, 12:28

yes
i am an active member of my city Humans rights group
i have collected money for my city womens equality group every year
i have done magic shows in poor communities and i do the same in retirement houses

yes
i give strangers a sit in the bus (kids and women and older guys, guys my age or younger can wait for their turn)

yes
i have changed somebody life, many lifes, since i am a psychologist
i will no go as far as saying saving since i am not a doctor nor a soldier nor a police officer so i have never been on the position of saving somebody life.. yet.. but i would love it
but i do carry an organ donor card in my wallet, if i am in a coma, Everything Goes

and even thought you dont like me
i can tell you, i have plenty of friends
i was always the funny guy in the back of the class and in a way i will always be

i am a skeptic
and i have a heart
i just dont care about magicians saying they are psychics nor retarded stuff like that :lol:
i know more about the topic than you do. i can pretend to be a psychic... Can you??
i wouldnt do it since i think that is crossing the line. But i know the Hows,
you dont know anything, yet you think you can discuss uri with a magician..
thats just so irrational that is funny
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: The Skeptic Damping Effect

Postby Kevin Kane » 23 Feb 2010, 12:38

Good for you, ciscop. But how does it feel if someone makes assumptions, presumptions or false accusations of you? Or spreads rumours, misinformation or misrepresent you? Sucks, doesn't it?

And I don't need to pretend to be psychic.
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