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Mentalism

Discussions about Psychics and Psychic Phenomena, Extra Sensory Perception, Telepathy, Psi, Clairvoyancy, 6th Sense, Psychokinesis, etc.

Mentalism

Postby ciscop » 06 Feb 2010, 06:22

all right
so first than all
my definition of Mentalism is

The use of psychology, magic and related methods to accomplish psychic phenomena

for me it was born in the 1850 with the fox sisters.. doing an spiritism act.. mediums and such were the base of many of the methods still in use by mentalists today.

but there are those that think mentalism as like it is today was born in Chicago
with J. Randall Brown (no spirits).. the guy discovered as a child that he can locate objects that his peers hide it in places
at first he need them to take them by the hand.. then he used scarfs.. and no contact
this is today known as Muscle Reading.. is using the ideomotor response of the spectators to guide him unconsciously to many objects.. i read that one time he located an object as small as a pin while being completely blindfolded.
this feat is still in use today by Kreskin.

Mentalism. is not only muscle reading of course
it involves all the psychic phenomena
like telepathy, mind reading, clairvoyance and pk

in telepathy, perhaps the most famous performers were the Zanzigs that in the beginning of 1900.. did a very impressive telepathy show. using a very complex verbal code.. for example.. when they did radio shows, one of them would be in the cabin blindfolded while the other would collect items from people on the street, and the one in the radio show will be describing each and every one of the objects held or saw by his spouse.
the best couple doing that is Fankelstein and Willard. (they are so good they can even pass serial numbers) .

and in PK the best performer for sure is Uri Geller
he didnt invented bending spoons, the method preceeds him by a couple of years
but he was definetly the guy that make it famous

and.. now
the best performer of Mentalism nowadays
is Derren Brown. who has been accused of charlatan for tricking people in that what he does has something to do with NLP (truth is, he has never said he uses NLP). he has replicated all the phenomena above mentioned and he is simply awesome.
here is an example of his use of suggestion


Now is mentalism real?
yeah, some of it.. but a lot of it is a trick.. now i dont expect you to think this is real, it was made for tv after all
but those techniques do work some of the time (thats why you will never see him doing the same at a live show, the chances of screwing it are way too high)

and thats is that...

it should be noticed
that houdini did mentalism before he became an escapist superstar
thats why he spoted so easily the methods used by mediums,
when you are in the knowledge of the arts of deception you can bust cheaters
if you are not on the knowledge you fell for any magician just like kevin and hf2 fall for Uri.
Last edited by ciscop on 06 Feb 2010, 06:31, edited 1 time in total.
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Mentalism

Postby ProfWag » 06 Feb 2010, 06:29

Mentalism is way cool. Essentially, it's using all 5 senses to make a 6th sense. Just cool stuff.
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Re: Mentalism

Postby ciscop » 06 Feb 2010, 06:32

ProfWag wrote:Mentalism is way cool. Essentially, it's using all 5 senses to make a 6th sense. Just cool stuff.


thats exactly how banachek explains it
;)
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Mentalism

Postby The Warrigal » 06 Feb 2010, 08:42

I have a love affair with Mentalism ans Bizarre Magic.

And yes. - I must agree, that for the las forty years, or so, that Uri Geller was the very best act in town.

Now as to Ciscops's stated opinion that making full use of our five natural senses to their maximum level of refinement, can easily create the illusion of psychcic abililty, I do agree with this, although only up to a point.

After 30+ years of, - (admittedly). amateur research, I am personally convinced that ESP is a genuine phenomena, albeit a rare and highly erratic phenomena.

However, that is a topic worthy of it's own thread.

I shall simply say here, and with all humility I may add. - That I am a far better cold reader than any "store front" psychic I have ever met.

Without exception every professional psychic I have ever visited was utterly pathetic at this art and seemed in my opinion, to impress only on the amiability, rather than the gullibility of VERY soft audiences.

None of that alters my opinion that ESP, mediumship, etc, are genuine phenonmena, however.
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Re: Mentalism

Postby NinjaPuppy » 06 Feb 2010, 10:38

Wow! Great post ciscop. Very interesting stuff.

I had always wondered what mentalism was all about and now I know. Thanks.

Tell us more, please.
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Re: Mentalism

Postby NinjaPuppy » 06 Feb 2010, 10:40

ProfWag wrote:Mentalism is way cool. Essentially, it's using all 5 senses to make a 6th sense. Just cool stuff.

It certainly makes sense. No pun intended.
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Re: Mentalism

Postby ciscop » 06 Feb 2010, 10:42

The Warrigal wrote:I have a love affair with Mentalism ans Bizarre Magic.

And yes. - I must agree, that for the las forty years, or so, that Uri Geller was the very best act in town.

Now as to Ciscops's stated opinion that making full use of our five natural senses to their maximum level of refinement, can easily create the illusion of psychcic abililty, I do agree with this, although only up to a point.

After 30+ years of, - (admittedly). amateur research, I am personally convinced that ESP is a genuine phenomena, albeit a rare and highly erratic phenomena.

However, that is a topic worthy of it's own thread.

I shall simply say here, and with all humility I may add. - That I am a far better cold reader than any "store front" psychic I have ever met.

Without exception every professional psychic I have ever visited was utterly pathetic at this art and seemed in my opinion, to impress only on the amiability, rather than the gullibility of VERY soft audiences.

None of that alters my opinion that ESP, mediumship, etc, are genuine phenonmena, however.


Oh man! that´s awesome
so you do cold reading??
im in love with the technique althought i must say im not the best
so do you use any tools to do cold reading? like tarot? numerology? astrology? palmistry etc..?
what system do you use?
just asking.. i like all that stuff (i must say i do not believe in it)
but only for the sakes of becoming a better reader and because it helps me develop a better character onstage
(i feel mentalists should be experts on that sort of thing)

hey Warrigal do you do bizarre magic or mentalism? or you just enjoyed?
i love bizarre magic too.. i do some stuff with fire, ashes, tarot cards, candles.. when i am in the mood of being more esoteric that my usual ¨mindreader mode¨.
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Mentalism

Postby ciscop » 06 Feb 2010, 10:58

NinjaPuppy wrote:Wow! Great post ciscop. Very interesting stuff.

I had always wondered what mentalism was all about and now I know. Thanks.

Tell us more, please.


Well, it is a broad topic, and not sure what i miss
ooh.. i guess we could talk a little bit about Irving Bishop
he was the assistant of J. Brown
at first.. he denied using paranormal powers when he started his career.. but then.. he went full psychic..
and became a very big sensation
he was the first to do the blind fold drive back on the late 1800
and the circustances of his death are quite horrendous
you see.. he suffered ... from attacks
catalepsy? i think is called
so while doing a performance.. he became uncouncious
and the doctors in charge decided he was death and started looking at his brain (the legend is to see what the brain of a mindreader looked like).. and thats how he die..

nowadays there´s a big moral debate in the mentalism community
there those of us, that think you should never claim any kind of super natural power and those that think mentalism is the last defensive line of magic, where is ok to still lie to your audience since you are only entertaining them.

you see.. when a magician produces a dove, people know he got the dove hidden somewhere
but when a mentalist reads your mind, people wanna believe that you somehow did it for real.

oh.. and i guess another thing about mentalism
mentalists dont do tricks
those are for magicians..
mentalists do Effects and experiments.. yeah.. we are a bunch of snobbynerds
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Mentalism

Postby ProfWag » 06 Feb 2010, 20:20

Even non-mentalists do cold reading all the time. Have you ever looked at someone who looked older than their years because of wrinkles? You know they are self-absorebed with themselves and tanned all the time when they were younger. When you see someone wearing their watch on their right wrist you know they are left handed. Clothes? Very telling as to who they really are. Throw in a couple educated guesses and presto! you're now a bonafide cold reader.
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Re: Mentalism

Postby ciscop » 07 Feb 2010, 00:58

ProfWag wrote:Even non-mentalists do cold reading all the time. Have you ever looked at someone who looked older than their years because of wrinkles? You know they are self-absorebed with themselves and tanned all the time when they were younger. When you see someone wearing their watch on their right wrist you know they are left handed. Clothes? Very telling as to who they really are. Throw in a couple educated guesses and presto! you're now a bonafide cold reader.


I do get we do cold reading all the time on an unconscious level
but i mean Cold Reading as a Conscious Process
for instance, the thing about the lefties using the watch on the right hand
a lot of people doesnt know it, but that´s a thing i look for when i am socializing

another couple of fun ¨facts¨ (is more warm reading than cold reading)
- Everybody has had a premonition about something, a disaster or a death of somebody relative.
- Women on shopping mall spend as much time watching windows as they spend watching other women on the mall.
- Most women have had the thought of ¨what if i had twins?¨
- A scar on the left knee
- Most women have tried to write poetry during their teens
- 94% of professors feel they are better than the average professor (where are you profwag? :lol: )

by the way
is ¨facts¨ and no FACTS
i dont have the studies nor data to back it up
that comes straight from Herb Dewey Hot Cold Reading book.
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Mentalism

Postby Kevin Kane » 07 Feb 2010, 14:01

I'm pretty sure this thread belongs in the Magic Tricks forum .... which disappeared.
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Re: Mentalism

Postby NinjaPuppy » 07 Feb 2010, 19:20

ciscop wrote:i love bizarre magic too.. i do some stuff with fire, ashes, tarot cards, candles.. when i am in the mood of being more esoteric that my usual ¨mindreader mode¨.

I googled 'bizarre magic' but couldn't find much without joining another forum. Can you explain?
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Re: Mentalism

Postby ProfWag » 07 Feb 2010, 20:28

ciscop wrote:
another couple of fun ¨facts¨ (is more warm reading than cold reading)
- Everybody has had a premonition about something, a disaster or a death of somebody relative.
- Women on shopping mall spend as much time watching windows as they spend watching other women on the mall.
- Most women have had the thought of ¨what if i had twins?¨
- A scar on the left knee
- Most women have tried to write poetry during their teens
- 94% of professors feel they are better than the average professor (where are you profwag? :lol: )

by the way
is ¨facts¨ and no FACTS
i dont have the studies nor data to back it up
that comes straight from Herb Dewey Hot Cold Reading book.

I'me definitely in the remaining 5% category (or is that 6%? My math isn't very good... ;-) )
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Re: Mentalism

Postby ciscop » 08 Feb 2010, 06:55

NinjaPuppy wrote:
ciscop wrote:i love bizarre magic too.. i do some stuff with fire, ashes, tarot cards, candles.. when i am in the mood of being more esoteric that my usual ¨mindreader mode¨.

I googled 'bizarre magic' but couldn't find much without joining another forum. Can you explain?


is a kind of magic
related to esoteric stuff
for instance a piece i can remember.. is
there;s a tarot deck.. somebody picks up a card.. you claim that you cant see the card cause then it wouldnt be true like saying a wish after blowing the candles on a birthday party... so you take out a piece of paper and say that you will use your magical powers or spirits or whatever.. and then burn the paper and voila.. the image of the card or the number of the card is formed by the ashes of the paper you burn...
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: Mentalism

Postby Nostradamus » 14 Mar 2010, 07:49

Thanks for the write ups ciscop. Still catching up on the older threads.
Scimitars were not available - beware January 19, 2038 is upon us.
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